your most used card...

hmmm... tonight i was sorting some cards from the bottom of the "dismantled deck" box. And surprisingly i realized that the card i use most in nearly all my decks is not minion tap, nor blood doll... It's *Pushing the limit*. Now that i think of it, i remember me putting at least 7 pushing the limit in all combat decks, and 5 in giovanni or lasmobra decks, and 3 or 4 in Nosferatu or Ventrue vote decks -just to be able to slam opponent hard if he immortalizegrapple me. Even when i saw this new baali, mary the black, the only thought i had was : wow ! aggravated hand damage + potence ! what a shock ! you never really know yourself. I thought i enjoyed to build and play only interesting, refined decks with original or new ideas, like the Ravnos presence+summoning deck or the Toreador disguised .44 deck... But the truth is i am a THUG. I seem to play this game only to use my hand or melee weapon to inflict +2 or +3 damage to opponents in combat. That's all. From now on, i thought first, from now on i shall seek redeeming by playing Setite vote, with at least 5 mumify. I have to purify my soul, and send myself to torpor instead of my opponent. Wait... if they use IG, no way to use mummify =/ well in that case it's not really worth playing that crap... Wait ! there are 4 Followers of Set with potence, non ? 1 have +1 strength and 2 have conditional +1 Strength too. With hand of conrad or some master discipline potence, i can pull Skin of the Adder + Pushing the limit for 4 or 5 damage while preventing 1, and can use the jones to cancel those annoying burning wrath or entombment. Why not throw in this new pot/temp card from bloodlines, Lapse, which at inferior potence give +2 strenght to my setite fighters ? i could also use all those spare immortal grapple, then. A serpent pushing the limit for 7 then tasting blood back, that's what i'd fancy. Yeah the deck is almost ready, the cards are all there .... redemption can wait =p reyda, always pushing the limit. -you too have a favorite card, don't you ?

In message <9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>, "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> mumbled something about: >reyda, always pushing the limit. >-you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Mine is Blood Doll, I'm afraid. No matter what else I'd like to claim. I'd go through my current decks and try to figure it out, but right now I have 2x Giovanni/Assamite/Ravnos/Setite built, one Giovanni intercept deck, one Atonement deck, one Thelerity deck, the current "newsletter" deck (got 2VP... weird), ... and a couple others. My deckbox is mostly a "showcase/experimental" version at the moment, as opposed to a selection of my favourite decks. =) Oh well. =) -- Derek ...Vampire Squirrel has come to bite your nuts!

I'd definitely have to go with Change of Target. I don't play too many stealth decks so I usually need all the minion actions I can get (especially when I play with large vampires). And Change of Target is so perfect for that! Also useful when you don't want to get in combat with that nasty Tzimisce who just blocked you. And it flushes out wakes and intercepts too. Halcyan 2

Derek Ray wrote: > > In message <9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>, > "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> mumbled something about: > > >reyda, always pushing the limit. > >-you too have a favorite card, don't you ? > > Mine is Blood Doll, I'm afraid. No matter what else I'd like to claim. You know, you'd think that would be anybody's favorite card but I don't really use 'em all that much. Not nearly as much as a lot players I play with. Mine is The Embraced. I've got decks that don't use it but quite a few that do and a few whose whole function is to overwhelm the table with Embraced, Embraced created by Embraced, and third and fourth generation etc. Embraced. It can be so much fun it works. Fred

>the truth is i am a THUG. I seem to play this game only to use my hand or >melee weapon to inflict +2 or +3 damage to opponents in combat. That's all. > >From now on, i thought first, from now on i shall seek redeeming by playing >Setite vote, with at least 5 mumify. I have to purify my soul, and send >myself to torpor instead of my opponent. Wait... if they use IG, no way to >use mummify =/ well in that case it's not really worth playing that crap... >Wait ! there are 4 Followers of Set with potence, non ? 1 have +1 strength >and 2 have conditional +1 Strength too. With hand of conrad or some master >discipline potence, i can pull Skin of the Adder + Pushing the limit for 4 >or 5 damage while preventing 1, and can use the jones to cancel those >annoying burning wrath or entombment. Why not throw in this new pot/temp >card from bloodlines, Lapse, which at inferior potence give +2 strenght to >my setite fighters ? i could also use all those spare immortal grapple, >then. A serpent pushing the limit for 7 then tasting blood back, that's what >i'd fancy. Yeah the deck is almost ready, the cards are all there .... >redemption can wait =p Come on man, don't forget that you now have Repulsion. So now if your action is blocked you get a freebie maneuver (to long). >reyda, always pushing the limit. >-you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Good question, I'll have to check on it but am thinking that there's a lot of Computer Hacking in my decks. Either that or Mask of 1000 Faces. Bernie

<<<snip>>>>> > > >reyda, always pushing the limit. > >-you too have a favorite card, don't you ? > > Good question, I'll have to check on it but am thinking that there's > a lot of Computer Hacking in my decks. Either that or Mask of > 1000 Faces. > Currently: Majesty, just don't like sitting next to grapplers. Also, Deflection (I think it's slightly broken in some way but until they do something about it I'll keep using it). Cool cards I've always wanted to use but never have: 1. Sword of Judgement (on Jacko, even better!) 2. Well Aimed Car. It's in my !Nos deck but never had the chance Anybody got any more?

Reyda wrote: > > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? I would have to say that my favourite card is Faceless Night. As many of the regulars at Watford Tourney will tell you, I do enojy a good bit of Stealth (and maybe the teensiest bit of additional Bleed). Any deck that I build with Obfuscate normally includes this card, as the superior version of tapping your opponents blockers, especially when they've "waked" using Rat's Warning/Dog Pack, and are planning to Cat's Guidance after combat, is fantastic. I do like to include a minion tap, but it is usually there for logistical reasons, not it must be there, couldn't ever play a game without it. In fact the first tourney I went to (this year after not playing for 4 years), I had no Blood Dolls or Minion Taps, as I had never seen them used in the way that people do to gain blood. I still made 4th place (and swept my first table). Andy "Sleazemaster General" Setite Ruler of Cambridge VEKN Prince http://www.geocities.com/setitesuk -- Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outragous fortune, or get fat on chocolate cake, eat the cake, life is too short to worry!

Frederick Scott <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote in message news:3C0DB8C5...@removethis.com... [ quoted text not captured ] As I am painfully aware of;) Now if this post had been sent 3 weeks ago, I'd have had some Domain Challenges in my deck two weeks ago;) Cheers, Jason Janus, Childe of Chronus > Fred > Fred

I love Storage Annex more and more. Currently I am working on acquiring 7... all of which will go into all of my decks! Storage Annex I've found is one of those few cards that get stronger the more of them in play. Information Highway is another "no brainer." Finally, since all my decks use Fortitude anyway, it seems all my decks include Kiss of Ra. Gotta love a card that tells Tsimisze to "suck it up!" Of course, I probably should play with more Blood Dolls. My major weakness as a player right now is blood management. Cheers, Janus, Childe of Chronus

In message <3C0DD5F4...@sanger.ac.uk>, Andy Brown <a...@sanger.ac.uk> writes: >As many >of the regulars at Watford Tourney will tell you, I do enojy a good >bit of Stealth (and maybe the teensiest bit of additional Bleed). Ah, the old bleed and stealth. Nothing like stealth and bleed, and certainly not sleaze. Oh no. -- James Coupe When correctly viewed PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Everything is lewd EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 I could tell you things about Peter Pan 13D7E668C3695D623D5D And the Wizard of Oz, there's a dirty old man

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:<9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>... <snip pleasant reading> > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? mine are WWEF/FA (depends...) ! I've got an average of 6 of them in my overall decks =) François

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote: > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Sure, it's the chimistry master card! Otherwise how would I give the toreador mass reality? Or the tremere Illusionary weather control suicide squads? Or there is my Turbo Alexandra TM deck. Close second is reversal of fortunes. There is always good reason to reverse order when playing intercept. I used to run 4 banishments in ANY deck...but then they added that younger clause, and I had to put a stop to that. -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

<snip evidence of French Brother's Dark Side> > > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? i'ld distinguished between "favourite" and "most used". i go to the lavatory more often than i eat seafood. It does not follow that i prefer shit to oysters. Most used: Wake With Evening's Freshness Favourite: Rotshreck or Temptation of Greater Power Most Powerful: Dreams of the Sphinx

I Actually use some well aimed cars in my !Nos long range fighting deck with lotsa presses and manuvers. I Increased the number after one well aimed car put Basilia in torpor, guess my opponent didn't se it comming because he had no fortitude on hand. For any deck with protean i guess Flesh of Marble is nice... Daniel Eriksson Sweden

"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ig9r0u4470dv9kr14...@4ax.com... > In message <9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>, > "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> mumbled something about: > > >reyda, always pushing the limit. > >-you too have a favorite card, don't you ? > > Mine is Blood Doll, I'm afraid. No matter what else I'd like to claim. Minion Tap over Doll for me. I've been playing a lot of big-vamp decks lately. In fact, when I made my nine 40/40 decks for Bloodlines (as the local organizer I wanted to have extras in case people needed them - in the end it turned out that no one did and having so many just made me unable to decide what to try to draft), I ran out of Minion Taps, despite owning at least 30, maybe more. Josh mother may I minion tap for 8?

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:<9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>... <snip> > > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Hummm, I definitely likethe Gangrel, as most of my decks are variations of pure gangrel decks. So among my favourite cards there is Form of Mist :) Another one is Flesh of Marble - so damn useful when involved in combat-heavy games :) (like WarZones)

>> reyda, always pushing the limit. >> -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? > > i'ld distinguished between "favourite" and "most used". i go to the > lavatory more often than i eat seafood. It does not follow that i > prefer shit to oysters. > > Most used: Wake With Evening's Freshness > Favourite: Rotshreck or Temptation of Greater Power > Most Powerful: Dreams of the Sphinx Most Used: Blood Doll & WWEF Most Commonly Run Out Of: Govern the Unaligned Most Useful: Spectral Divination, Change of Target, The Embrace Favorite: Cull the Herd or Jar the Soul Most Powerful: Freak Drive, Rutor's Hand Rutor's hand may sound odd, but I've only recently come to think it's one of the most powerful cards out there, being almost as good as Freak Drive, and sometimes better, and MUCH less card intensive. The Embrace and Change of Target both belong in almost every deck. Actions are good, and people who block you want to cycle cards; why let them? I think the new flurry of NEC on top of Final Nights is going to see even more use of Spectral Divination; the cost of one blood is worth it's utility; being able to adapt your hand to getting 1 more stealth or 1 more intercept at will is a powerfully useful effect. Favorite is really tough, since I go through "fads," but I've always thought that Cull the Herd is underrated, because people keep reading past the first sentence: "Look at any Methuselah's hand." +1 stealth, and no discipline. Note inferior Revelations ONLY works on your prey. And, though I haven't actually played one in quite a while, I've always been a huge fan of Jar the Soul. Especially played by an Embrace with Spectral Divination, and playing Change of Target when he's caught anyway. =) -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

In terms of volume, it wouldn't be very interesting - Blood Doll. However, I've pretty much decided that The Barrens goes in *every* deck. "He's a ... he's a reverse vampire. They ... they crave the Sun."

To rehash one of the few older threads worth rehashing, IMHO... "Curevei" <cur...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20011205124917...@mb-mp.aol.com... > In terms of volume, it wouldn't be very interesting - Blood Doll. However, > I've pretty much decided that The Barrens goes in *every* deck. </soapbox> Why have you decided this? Is it because you need to "get to" the cards in your deck? Do you run The Barrens and Fragment of the Book of Nod as a crutch to "get to" the cards that you cannot "get to" fast enough, possibly because your deck is too large? There are few decks that profit from having 90 cards. Combat decks are the obvious rule, but there really aren't that many. How do I know this? Why do I believe this? Let's take a known fact: games average 12-15 turns. (If you don't believe this, start writing down your playgroup's stats, and you soon will believe it.) How many vampires are you going to get out? How many TOTAL actions will you be able to take? How many cards will you be able to burn through during other Methuselah's turns, assuming your predator is the worst deck matchup for you? Now, the Atlanta Deck Construction Theory(TM) states that, given a deck's repeated tendency to end with more than 20 cards left in the library, the deck is most likely too large and will benefit by cutting cards from the deck. I fought against this idea for months. One night, I simply decided to give in and change all of my decks to fit this theory. Whether it was out of respect for the Atlanta playgroup -- many of whom have taught me much of the VTES that I know -- or simply a desire to become a better player, I can't say. But, within weeks of adopting this strategy, I won my first tournament with a 74-card Tzimisce Smiling Jack deck. I ended each game with less than 10 cards in my library every time. I got to the cards I needed to get to right when I needed to get to them. I saw almost every card in my deck every game. I had 3 great games out of 4, and when that was a 90-card deck, it did not do nearly as well. I'm sure the Atlanta playgroup -- Derek and Tatu in particular -- could tell us tales of why they switched and how it has benefitted them enourmously. I suggest removeing The Barrens and FotBoN from all your decks first thing, unelss the deck obviously needs the card. That's 2 down, about 11-13 more to go, and you'll be a better player for it, have better deck winning percentage, and have more fun than you ever have before. <soapbox> > > "He's a ... he's a reverse vampire. They ... they crave the Sun." Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

Kevin wrote: >> I've pretty much decided that The Barrens goes in >*every* deck. ></soapbox> >Why have you decided this? Is it because you need to >"get to" the cards in your >deck? Do you run The Barrens and Fragment of the >Book of Nod as a crutch to >"get to" the cards that you cannot "get to" fast enough, >possibly because your >deck is too large? The Barrens goes well in any deck not because "whoops my deck is too big", but because every game is different. "Hand Jam" doesn't result from having a ninety card library, but because few cards are universally useful. The Enhanced Senses that saved my ass last week against Malk politics is now looking really dumb against Potence Rush <-- enter the Barrens. As for deck size, I carried the "thin to win" mentality over from M:TG. That game seems to be a better arena for that deck building strategy because it seems more reliant on card combos than V:TES (or at least my decks were). If I was playing a V:TES deck that required a few crucial combos, or had many permanent resources in it I would be likely to use a 70 card deck. Maybe it has to do with my V:TES playgroup's style, but lately we've been running out of cards quite often, and I've been making larger decks. Jay Kristoff, V:EKN Prince of Columbus (Ohio)

>The Barrens goes well in any deck not because "whoops my deck is too big", >but because every game is different. "Hand Jam" doesn't result from having >a ninety card library, but because few cards are universally useful. The >Enhanced Senses that saved my ass last week against Malk politics is now >looking really dumb against Potence Rush <-- enter the Barrens. > As for deck size, I carried the "thin to win" mentality over from M:TG. >That game seems to be a better arena for that deck building strategy because >it seems more reliant on card combos than V:TES (or at least my decks were). >If I was playing a V:TES deck that required a few crucial combos, or had >many permanent resources in it I would be likely to use a 70 card deck. >Maybe it has to do with my V:TES playgroup's style, but lately we've been >running out of cards quite often, and I've been making larger decks. And don't forget that the argument for playing with smaller decks has hit a serious speedbump. What with all the new Harbinger library destruction cards and all... Halcyan 2

Curevei wrote: >>In terms of volume, it wouldn't be very interesting - Blood Doll. However, I've pretty much decided that The Barrens goes in *every* deck.>> I currently have, like, 8 or 9 operational decks, and the cards that I have the most of in use are: -Bum's Rush -Blood Doll -Minion Tap Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "...and the only person I can stand to be around is a neutered vampire who cheats at kitten poker!" -Buffy

In message <20011205160847...@mb-ba.aol.com>, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) mumbled something about: >And don't forget that the argument for playing with smaller decks has hit a >serious speedbump. What with all the new Harbinger library destruction cards >and all... It's something else to consider, but I don't see fewer people using only Majesty in their decks just because Immortal Grapple is popular. =) [ quoted text not captured ]

"David" <fle...@nevrax.com> wrote in message news:a0b9db20.0112...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] hum.. tu bosses chez nevrax ? tu connais zakapatul, alias cyril daujean alors ? =) reyda

> It's something else to consider, but I don't see fewer people using only > Majesty in their decks just because Immortal Grapple is popular. =) Yes, but a lot of decks that pack S:CE as their combat defense pack manuevers than used to be the case out of respect for the Grapple, at least in our playgroup. Fanboy

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:22:43 -0600, "Kevin M." <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEcharter.net> wrote: >Let's take a known fact: games average 12-15 turns. (If you don't believe >this, start writing down your playgroup's stats, and you soon will believe it.) You've obviously never played with Mike Ooi. Most of his decks don't start rolling until turn 10, and don't ask me how, but he manages to muck with the meta-game enough to keep everyone alive until then. However I expect our meta-game is in the minority. Half of our number are slow build/wall players that also happen to be very good at the game.

"Ethan Burrow" <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3c0f0118....@news-server.austin.rr.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Our meta-game tends to be like that, a lot of decks spend quite a few turns building whilst trying to prevent other decks from building.

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, GreySeer wrote: > Our meta-game tends to be like that, a lot of decks spend quite a few turns > building whilst trying to prevent other decks from building. until someone lays down some ph@7 b3375 or whatever it is you guys call combat. O:) salem.

> > Our meta-game tends to be like that, a lot of decks spend quite a few turns > > building whilst trying to prevent other decks from building. > > until someone lays down some ph@7 b3375 > > or whatever it is you guys call combat. O:) You can blame Rodge for that one, he'll be trying out a new tune tonight with his Blood Brothers I think.

"Jason Liang" <jli...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:9uklf7$1e2q$1...@agate.berkeley.edu... > I love Storage Annex more and more. Currently I am working on acquiring 7... > all of which will go into all of my decks! Storage Annex I've found is one > of those few cards that get stronger the more of them in play. > > Information Highway is another "no brainer." > > Finally, since all my decks use Fortitude anyway, it seems all my decks > include Kiss of Ra. Gotta love a card that tells Tsimisze to "suck it up!" Can you use Kiss of Ra then Change of Target? Kiss of Ra says the action is blocked. Change of Target is only usable when an action is blocked. Hmm...any objections on this combo LSJ?

"Jon Stahler" <sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:VsNP7.941$tg4....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] Additionally, if I use Force of Will to attempt a bleed, can I then use Change of Target to untap my minion? Seems like I could since there is no restriction regarding this. My Harbingers of Skulls deck will love this combo :)

Jon Stahler wrote: > > "Jason Liang" <jli...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote in message > news:9uklf7$1e2q$1...@agate.berkeley.edu... > > I love Storage Annex more and more. Currently I am working on acquiring > 7... > > all of which will go into all of my decks! Storage Annex I've found is one > > of those few cards that get stronger the more of them in play. > > > > Information Highway is another "no brainer." > > > > Finally, since all my decks use Fortitude anyway, it seems all my decks > > include Kiss of Ra. Gotta love a card that tells Tsimisze to "suck it up!" > > Can you use Kiss of Ra then Change of Target? No. CoT requires a blocking minion. > Kiss of Ra says the action is blocked. Change of Target is only usable when > an action is blocked. Hmm...any objections on this combo LSJ? Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Jon Stahler wrote: > Additionally, if I use Force of Will to attempt a bleed, can I then use > Change of Target to untap my minion? Seems like I could since there is no > restriction regarding this. My Harbingers of Skulls deck will love this > combo :) Yes, if a minion successfully blocks the FoW. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote: > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Yep. Uriah Winter. Regards, Noal

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C0FACC9...@white-wolf.com... > Jon Stahler wrote: > > > > "Jason Liang" <jli...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote in message > > news:9uklf7$1e2q$1...@agate.berkeley.edu... > > > I love Storage Annex more and more. Currently I am working on acquiring > > 7... > > > all of which will go into all of my decks! Storage Annex I've found is one > > > of those few cards that get stronger the more of them in play. > > > > > > Information Highway is another "no brainer." > > > > > > Finally, since all my decks use Fortitude anyway, it seems all my decks > > > include Kiss of Ra. Gotta love a card that tells Tsimisze to "suck it up!" > > > > Can you use Kiss of Ra then Change of Target? > > No. CoT requires a blocking minion. > I suppose I could've actually read what was in the parenthesis after the third ruling on CoT and had this question asked. Sorry to have wasted your time... Thought it was too nice to be true...untap and diablerize...mmm....guess I'll just have to pay the blood for freak drive to do it...

Kind OT but I just had to respond to this > Cool cards I've always wanted to use but never have: 1. Sword of Judgement > (on Jacko, even better) I often didn't use it because it was pretty expensive, and it meant I couldn't blur. Also we play in a weird metagame, using the old 10 blood per methusah rule. Last week we had 7 methusalahs at the table:) Anyway here I was, out of library cards, getting one I wanted per turn back with waste management. Yet still I was able to dominate the table with Bronwen and the sword of judgement. No cards used, dodge with additional strike. The depravity and sports bike helped too :) Wisefool Mercuriel

"Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bb705c59.01120...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] It's the most surprising answer i've read so far =) keep up the betraying ! reyda btw : I think now that we had several expansions and tons of new vampires, the only thing that prevents Betrayer to be a complete waste of time is the cool looking Uriah (one of my favorite vamp illustration). Hurray Uriah ;)

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:<9uk7n2$huk$1...@neon.noos.net>... > reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Especially those cards you can build (preferably) strange decks with. eg Madness Network, Milicent Smith, Possession, Reversal of Fortune, ToGP,.... Of these I prefere those cards who are considered weak or wallpaper. Jeroen maybe a S&B deck will get me some VPs :-)

> reyda, always pushing the limit. > -you too have a favorite card, don't you ? Man, you simply cannot beat Protracted Investments. 6 pool for a cost of 3... and you can use it instead of a stupid master phase action (which, let's face it, no one really uses anyway - clearly a pointless aspect of the game). Either that, or Deflection. Easily the best card in the game... "Bleed for 8? No worries... see my chum on the left". Best of all is Escaped Mental Patient. A crazy fool with a nasty suprise... but only really useful if you use Compel the Spirit with him. DH