[LSJ] Multiple untaps with Leather Jacket in one turn???

Greetings, One of our group is claiming that you can untap all your vampires (effectively) with a single leather jacket. I can't believe this is true, but can't find anything in the rules, errata or clarifications to prevent it. Relevant card text & rulings, etc: "Leather Jacket Cardtype: Equipment Equipment. If the *action to equip* with the Leather Jacket is successful, untap the acting minion at the end of the turn." Rulebook 6.1.3: "6.1.3. Equip (+1 stealth) Equipment cards are action cards that give minions special abilities. The equip action has a default +1 stealth. <snip> To **equip** with an equipment card currently possessed by one of your other minions, tap the acting minion (the minion who is attempting to get the equipment) and announce the equipment card he is getting." I thought there was a ruling with Vast Wealth & Leather Jacket, but can't find it. Scenario: Minion A has Leather Jacket at start of turn. Minion B takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion A. (Successfully). Minion C takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion B. ... Minion A takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion X. All minions have successfully equiped with the LJ this turn, therefore all untap at the end of the turn. The only thing I can think of that might stop this is the "During X do Y limits Y to once per X" ruling. Not that they necessarily gain much out of it, but it still strikes me as odd. Please clarify this for us, thanks. A.

> Scenario: Minion A has Leather Jacket at start of turn. Minion B takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion A. (Successfully)... minion A to X untap at the end of your turn... the move equipment between vampires is an equip action and thus triggers the leather jacket (unlike cards like heidelberg castle)...

"denis" <ino...@gmx.net> wrote in message news:1108644438.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

"DragonBear" <drag0...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:3019dc10.05021...@posting.google.com... > Greetings, > One of our group is claiming that you can untap all your vampires > (effectively) with a single leather jacket. I can't believe this is > true, but can't find anything in the rules, errata or clarifications > to prevent it. ... > Scenario: > Minion A has Leather Jacket at start of turn. > Minion B takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion A. > (Successfully). > Minion C takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion B. > ... > Minion A takes an "equip" action to get the LJ off Minion X. > > All minions have successfully equiped with the LJ this turn, therefore > all untap at the end of the turn. Sure enough. One of those things where it may seem odd - but then, Leather Jacket, as equipment, is kind of odd in the first place. If all the vampires want to pass around a Leather Jacket and untap from it the end of a turn, there's no reason they shouldn't. It's not like they're gaining something that they couldn't have had from equipping with it anyway. It's just that that little "tap now to act, untap later" effect can get passed around endlessly in a single turn - with all its consequent costs and risks, such as being intercepted and not being free to act that turn (if you wanted them to). But if Leather Jacket parties sound like fun to you, go to town. Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] I could see Sargon doing it with a weenie buddy to avoid every having to pay his infernal costs. John

DragonBear wrote: > Greetings, > One of our group is claiming that you can untap all your vampires > (effectively) with a single leather jacket. I can't believe this is > true, but can't find anything in the rules, errata or clarifications > to prevent it. > > Not that they necessarily gain much out of it, but it still strikes me > as odd. There's the key point: they don't really gain much out of it at all - yes, each minion gains an untap at the end of the turn, but all-but-one of them wouldn't have been tapped in the first place if they hadn't passed it around... There's some minor corner-case uses for this, like using Sargon to gain the edge for acting when he doesn't want the jacket in the end, or whatever; but it's mostly tapping and untapping for no real effect. > Please clarify this for us, thanks. > > > A. -John Flournoy

"Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> writes: > If all the vampires want to pass around a Leather Jacket and untap from it > the end of a turn, there's no reason they shouldn't. It's not like they're > gaining something that they couldn't have had from equipping with it > anyway. Maybe your hand is full of Force of Wills, and Restricted Vitae is in play. And it sure helps to have them untap as blockers, after you rescue them from torpor with your other minions. -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

there might be some interesting way to use this....but personally, i fail to see which it is...except the sargon thing, and even so, not really neccessary...

Come one, Any vamp with inferior Thanatosis LOVES this fact. Equip with a Leather Jacket, Hag's Wrinkles to untap, then do some other action knowing you will untap at the end of the turn! [ quoted text not captured ]

"The_Baital" <subve...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1108656708....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > there might be some interesting way to use this....but personally, i > fail to see which it is...except the sargon thing, and even so, not > really neccessary... > Moving just the leather jacket is pointless. The main benefit is that you also can move other equipment. Say for example that Smudge has equiped with IR-goggles, Sport bike and Ivory bow. You want to move this to a better vampire, but need to have the vamp untapped. Have Smudge equip with jacket, and then let Omaya take all equipment from smudge. I see leather jacket as a minion phase Nod that can also be used to prevent stuff. /henrik isaksson

> It's just that that little "tap now to act, > untap later" effect can get passed around endlessly in a single turn - > with all its consequent costs and risks, such as being intercepted and > not being free to act that turn (if you wanted them to). But if > Leather Jacket parties sound like fun to you, go to town. *Hag's Wrinkles *Sargon *Perfectionist *Freak Drive [for]

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:2005021712...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Sure. Cool. The imaginative combination of cards is one of the delights of the game! Fred

"henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote in message news:37k3giF...@individual.net... > > "The_Baital" <subve...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1108656708....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> there might be some interesting way to use this....but personally, i >> fail to see which it is...except the sargon thing, and even so, not >> really neccessary... >> > > Moving just the leather jacket is pointless. The main benefit is that you > also can move other equipment. As others have shown, it's not pointless. But that is an interesting application, I suppose. It still has the cost, normally, of not allowing the equipping minion to act. So you couldn't (say) bleed with Smudge using a laptop and a Leather Jacket, have Omaya take them and then use the laptop to bleed again which would be cool. None the less, I never realized you could grab multiple equipment cards from another vampire with a single action. > I see leather jacket as a minion phase Nod that can also be used to prevent > stuff. Only amongst minions you wish to leave untapped - and then with the risk of getting intercepted and messing up all your plans or worse. Hardly a Nod. Fred

Hey, I can now ask a question and make a suggestion at the same time: If Reg Driscoll 'equips' with multiple equipment from a minion, can he move it all to another minion? If so, and one of those pieces of equipment is a Leather Jacket, then he can untap at the end of the turn and the other minion can act with all the goodies on him!

<robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1108673925....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Hey, I can now ask a question and make a suggestion at the same time: > > If Reg Driscoll 'equips' with multiple equipment from a minion, can he > move it all to another minion? Yes. All of the just-equipped equipment to a single other minion. > If so, and one of those pieces of equipment is a Leather Jacket, then > he can untap at the end of the turn and the other minion can act with > all the goodies on him! Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Okay here's a question since someone brought up the force of will idea ... When performing a Torpor Rescue, or Torpor Diablerise, is this deemed a "Encounter in Torpor" action with specified result until I get there, or must I declare the Rescue/Diablerie as part of the action. Secondly, if I perform a Rescue can I take their equipment from them as well? Since theoretically they're helpless until I get them out. D

quetzalcoatl wrote: > When performing a Torpor Rescue, or Torpor Diablerise, is this deemed a > "Encounter in Torpor" action with specified result until I get there, > or must I declare the Rescue/Diablerie as part of the action. "Encounter in Torpor" is an action from earlier editions of the rulebook. In the current rules : "Rescue a Vampire in Torpor" and "Diablerise a Vampire in Torpor" are separate, distinct actions. You have to declare which you are doing, during action declaration. See the rulebook: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ > Secondly, if I perform a Rescue can I take their equipment from them > as well? No. -- * lehrbuch (lehr...@gmail.com)