Hello, Shawn. Here's a message primarily aimed for your eyes (but also
for everyone interested in this topic); a plea for careful planning and
playtesting for the Sabbat. We've been playing regularly since the first
release of the game (when it was still just Jyhad). Now, with the release
of the two expansions, there are even more combinations and we've hardly
scratched the surface of possible decks, even with just the Camarilla
vampires. My point is, I'm more than willing to wait a few more months
for the release of the Sabbat-if it means it's more thoroughly
playtested and thus a better game. I was surprised by how quickly Ancient
Hearts came on the heels of Dark Sovereigns, and this has complicated the
various strategies quite a bit. Now there are even more themes that can
be explored aesthecally with different cards and combinations-for
example, one of my favourites being a Setite deck full of corruption,
with newer cards such as Pentex Subversion and Grand Temple of Set to go
along with Sabbat Threat and Bribes.
Anyway, please take your time to do a great job with such an important
horizon full of potential: after all, we've already got our hands full!
Scott Whittaker wrote:
> Hello, Shawn. Here's a message primarily aimed for your eyes (but also
> for everyone interested in this topic); a plea for careful planning and
> playtesting for the Sabbat. We've been playing regularly since the first
> release of the game (when it was still just Jyhad). Now, with the release
> of the two expansions, there are even more combinations and we've hardly
> scratched the surface of possible decks, even with just the Camarilla
> vampires. My point is, I'm more than willing to wait a few more months
> for the release of the Sabbat-if it means it's more thoroughly
> playtested and thus a better game.
A couple of things here. First, I honestly feel that the Sabbat has been put
through the ringer in playtest. We caught a few potential game-breakers (They'll
ruin the game! *grin*), polished the hell out of all the cards, and now I can
honestly say that the set is ready. I hate releasing sub-standard products, and (as
I put on my opinion hat) of the many things that my company of employment may do
which makes me scratch my head, releasing substandard products is *not* one of them.
In short, it has been playtested a long time, and we have a kick ass expansion in
the works.
Second, amd this is with my opinion hat still on, I don't know if a serious lapse of
time is healthy for this TCG. V:TES lives in the shadow of its Big Brother(TM),
Magic. With that, we must be agressive in order to not only keep our niche in the
TCG market, but to be remembered and paid attention to. This is not a slam against
Magic, but simply a fact. Magic is *immense*, while V:TES is solid, but nowhere the
size (of popularity) of Magic. Now, this does not mean that we will throw together
some schlock and peddle it as the latest expansion. If it's not quality, I know the
designers will not want it released, and WotC follows suit heartily.
> I was surprised by how quickly Ancient Hearts came on the heels of Dark
> Sovereigns, and this has complicated the various strategies quite a bit.
> Now there are even more themes that can be explored aesthecally with different
> cards and combinations-for example, one of my favourites being a Setite deck
> full of corruption, with newer cards such as Pentex Subversion and Grand Temple
> of Set to go along with Sabbat Threat and Bribes.
Another couple of things here. First, I think that with each expansion we do, we
get better in design. I take a look a few of the cards in DS and think, "Which
crack bowl was I smoking that day?" I will be the first to admit that Torment the
Soul (NEC/Combat/Strike: 1R/SUP Strike: 1R agg./Not usable the first round of
combat.) is weak, but there are few cards like that in DS, and even fewer cards like
that in AH. Chances are that, even with the size of the Sabbat, there will be fewer
cards still in that; this is how confident I am.
Second, in respect to time, I like the idea of shaking up strategies, but not an
overkill. There was a fair amount of time between the initial releases DS and AH,
IMHO, and I think that it didn't have to be that far apart. Now... I don't think
every set needs to be released right after the other. There is going to be a fair
amount of time between AH and Sabbat (over six months, if I can add), so people
should be starting to master Ah when Sabbat hits. At the tournament at Origins, I
saw wuite a number of AH sets, and I bet I would have saw more if people had
remembered that it had already been thirty days since the release.
Lots of potential, NON-GAME BREAKING combos makes for an interesting play
environment. Everytime I play V:TES, I usually see a new combo or deck strategy. I
love it!
> Anyway, please take your time to do a great job with such an important
> horizon full of potential: after all, we've already got our hands full!
You bet we will, and thank you for your concern! I certainly know and remember that
it is people like you, and everyone on this list who support this great game that
keeps me not only designing for it, but playing. Sorry to sound cheesy, but its
true.
--
**********************************************************************
* Shawn F. Carnes sw...@wizards.com *
* Game Designer and Developer Wizards of the Coast, Inc. *
**********************************************************************
* The opinions I express are probably not even mine... HELP! *
**********************************************************************
* "We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in good *
* health!" --Milk and Cheese *
**********************************************************************
Shawn,
When you play Jyhad, what rules variants does your group
usually use? Has your group tried the Golden Tenets? Card
Limits?
--
Tom Doehne
doe...@cse.ogi.edu
Just a couple of concerns for the new netrep about the Sabbat; a friend
showed me a few photocopies of cards he saw at Origins, and I was
wondering how "set in stone" those cards are.
For one, I noticed a few typos and bad wordings on cards. Since I don't
have them in front of me, I can't really say specifically, but I recall
saying to myself "I hope they change that before printing it." My
question is, how much of playtesting is readability of cards. I know
that Jyhad (VtES) is a complex game, but there are many bad wordings out
there that could have been nipped in the bud (or could they have...?)
Secondly, the cards displayed new abilites (I believe) Obtenebration and
Vicissitude. The symbols on the cards were displayed as an "O" and a
"V". Will these be changed? I am not a follower of the White Wolf game,
but I think that all of the ability symbols are cool, and we even have
pet names for them ("fist" for potence and "eye" for auspex, to name a
few). I would be disappointed if the new symbols were simply letters.
Lastly, about the rulebook. I know that you know that the Jyhad rulebook
wasn't all that great, and the V:tES was better, with one (rather large)
exception. For those of us not learning the game for the first time, we
wanted to use the rulebook as a reference. Unfortunately, sometimes
important rules were split in two; half in the "basic" game and half in
the rest. Will Sabbat (which, since it is stand-alone, will probably
have its own rulebook) keep the concept of the basic game, and if so,
any ideas to clear this problem?
Thanks for your time.
James
--
James Hamblin | jham...@sunlab.cit.cornell.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't panic; base 8 is just like base 10, really -- if you're
missing two fingers." -- Tom Lehrer, "New Math"
I agree that the time between DS and AH was short. I'm not going to
complain, but I'm definately on the other side of the fence for that one.
Also, The Sabbat will be out in no time. Hard to believe we're going to
have a full Jyhad set on us (400 some cards, ja?)
It will be interesting to see how well it plays by itself, and how well
it works with the rest of the Jyhad cards. (be aware that most of the
time, "The Sabbat" WILL be used with other Jyhad cards.)
The idea/theorem that we need to be aggressive with the expansions to
match or shadow the way Magic works...well, I'll admit that I'd never
turn away a new 179 cards! I'll collect them till I'm 60! and buy a
garage to put them in....
But, what I want to say is I'd rather see some of this effort put
into more support for Jyhad. Local tournaments, regional tournaments, and
national or convention-related tournaments. Post and promote sanctioned
tournaments. I could really get something going here locally with a few
color posters, promo prizes, and not much else except a really great
game. I'm sure there are thousands of cities just like mine that aren't
megaloposis's.
Take Highlander ccg: It's a crummy game (and this is coming from a huge
hihglander fan) but it has it's own charm, and they support sanctioned
tournaments with a blink of an eye.... Booster packs for everyone, and
the winner gets a Quickening Card. (An amazingly hard card to get for any
serious collector)
I liked what the Caravan tour did. However, it didn't even come close to
me.
Wish list:
1) Sanctioned Tournament Kit. Even at some kind of fee, this wouldn't be
bad if countered with a poster for the Game/Ruler. Have some posters
with white bottoms with words of TIME: PLACE: PRIZES: etc...
Rules. Very important to give the person running this event a clear set
of rules and errata showing which rules and errata can be used so that
all players know in advance. Card limits, vote pushing, golden tenets,
etc should be decided on. Prizes should definately include promo cards
from books, (we need more Dan Murdock book specials!!!!!!!!), mariana
gilbert, and whatever else you could come up with. Wyvern had a point
thing going, but without huge support, the world-wide points just don't
mean much.
dustin
All that sounds good, Shawn. But here's something I think
everyone will want: proofread the cards. As much time as
you guys spend on this you ruin some of it with the stupid
proofing errors that confuse everything.
Scott
Shawn F. Carnes wrote:
> Second, amd this is with my opinion hat still on, I don't know if a serious lapse of
> time is healthy for this TCG. V:TES lives in the shadow of its Big Brother(TM),
> Magic. With that, we must be agressive in order to not only keep our niche in the
> TCG market, but to be remembered and paid attention to. This is not a slam against
> Magic, but simply a fact. Magic is *immense*, while V:TES is solid, but nowhere the
> size (of popularity) of Magic. Now, this does not mean that we will throw together
> some schlock and peddle it as the latest expansion. If it's not quality, I know the
> designers will not want it released, and WotC follows suit heartily.
>
I guess that's certainly a valid point; however, I'm coming from the
point of view that I look back on my substantial involvement with Magic:
The Addiction as a bad dream full of narcotic substances and ever-
increasing silliness, so I don't view it as any kind of serious
competitor for Jyhad (or V:tES, if you prefer) which despite its flaws
has Magic beat six ways from Sunday for balanced play and aesthetic
appeal.
Ultimately, I guess I am just commenting that it takes a good deal of
effort and inspiration to manage to create new decks out of the available
cards. Of course, this is mostly a labour of love-for dominance, of
course...
Shawn F. Carnes (sw...@castle.wizards.com) wrote:
: Scott Whittaker wrote:
: > vampires. My point is, I'm more than willing to wait a few more months: > for the release of the Sabbat-if it means it's more thoroughly
: > playtested and thus a better game.
ditto.
: A couple of things here. First, I honestly feel that the Sabbat has been put: through the ringer in playtest. We caught a few potential game-breakers (They'll
: ruin the game! *grin*), polished the hell out of all the cards, and now I can
I wished You'd caught them in DS and AH.
: which makes me scratch my head, releasing substandard products is *not* one of them.
*caugh* Except for poor decisions like changing card backs perhaps ?
: Second, amd this is with my opinion hat still on, I don't know if a serious lapse of: time is healthy for this TCG. V:TES lives in the shadow of its Big Brother(TM),
I hope it will stay so forever.
Jyhad used to be very easy to get into at a good level.
Buy a starter and a few boosters and ya can build a good deck.
Now with these many expansions coming out it's becoming just like
magic, only they've managed the reverse order this time.
Now You 'have to have' the newest series or you simply will not be
able to win.
I've seen spoiler cards like Fear of Mekhet and Malkavian Derangement:
Split Personality(?)
Up till these expansions all annoying cards could be gotten rid off
(somehow) or at least things got better after fame was made unique (in
our group way before the rulings, btw)
: Magic. With that, we must be agressive in order to not only keep our niche in the
Stay in teh niche, and try to get faithful customers, don't try to
beat Magic.
: > I was surprised by how quickly Ancient Hearts came on the heels of Dark: > Sovereigns, and this has complicated the various strategies quite a bit.
Yeah, and Sabbat even quicker after AH, for europeans.
: Second, in respect to time, I like the idea of shaking up strategies, but not an: overkill. There was a fair amount of time between the initial releases DS and AH,
: IMHO, and I think that it didn't have to be that far apart. Now... I don't think
: every set needs to be released right after the other. There is going to be a fair
: amount of time between AH and Sabbat (over six months, if I can add), so people
I'd prefer at least a year. Or you WotC people have to be too
money-hungry of course. In that case I suggest an expansion every
three months, like in magic with Ice age Chronincles and that other
one. That's a sure way to stop people from buying.
I think for most people around here it has to stay a GAME, not a 'must
have' collection.
: Lots of potential, NON-GAME BREAKING combos makes for an interesting play
I sure hope so.
: environment. Everytime I play V:TES, I usually see a new combo or deck strategy. I
: love it!: > Anyway, please take your time to do a great job with such an important
: > horizon full of potential: after all, we've already got our hands full!
Agreed.
: You bet we will, and thank you for your concern! I certainly know and remember that: it is people like you, and everyone on this list who support this great game that
: keeps me not only designing for it, but playing. Sorry to sound cheesy, but its
: true.
Well, i hope you will do the best job you possibly can.
Oh and please get rid of those red lines around the standard vampire
set cards, *yuck*.
While I'm on it, the white/black art for reaction cards sucks too, way
to light for a Jyhad card.
And since this note is a note to put ya guys down apparantly:
DON'T MAKE SO MANY VAMPS WITH NON CLAN ABILITIES !(Dominate jumps to
mind).
There, i think I'm done, have a nice day, and loads of fun net-repping.
--
//The Doctor.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| GCS -d+ H++>+++ s:++>+:+ g+ p2 !au a->+++ w++ v+(---) |
| C+++>+ UHL++ P?>+ L+ !3 E N++ K- W(---) !M !V po+ |
| Y t(+) 5>+ !j R+ G++@ tv+(++) b+>++ D+ B? e+ u+** |
| h+* f? !r--- n---- !y+ |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Shawn F. Carnes" <sw...@castle.wizards.com> writes:
>I put on my opinion hat) of the many things that my company of employment
may do
>which makes me scratch my head, releasing substandard products is *not*
one of them.
>In short, it has been playtested a long time, and we have a kick ass
expansion in
>the works.
Eh?
No offense, but didn't you company of employment put out Darkness Unveiled?
(complete with a False Answers to Questions (FAQ) section?)
And Dark Sovereigns (printed on the CCG-equivalent of tissue paper)?
And isn't that same error-laden FAQ is still present on the Web page,
over six months after the errors were acknowledged?
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | In theory there is no difference
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | between theory and practice.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
On 30 Jul 1996, J. Hamblin wrote:
> Lastly, about the rulebook. I know that you know that the Jyhad rulebook
> wasn't all that great, and the V:tES was better, with one (rather large)
> exception. For those of us not learning the game for the first time, we
> wanted to use the rulebook as a reference. Unfortunately, sometimes
> important rules were split in two; half in the "basic" game and half in
> the rest. Will Sabbat (which, since it is stand-alone, will probably
> have its own rulebook) keep the concept of the basic game, and if so,
> any ideas to clear this problem?
Though the Sabbat probably has all of its parts put together already, if
not, my suggestion for the rulebook would be to keep all pertinent
sections of the rules together. If you must keep a "basic" and
"advanced" game, present the basic game concepts, but as you do, any
advanced game changes regarding those concepts should be in the same
section but in a darkened box, in a different font, or somehow
differentiated from the basic games rules. The new rulebook is horrible
when attempting to track down rules, and it would be nice if the next
rulebook was more clear and (more importantly) usable.
@ The Corrupter - Adrian Lee Sullivan @ GAT/CS/WS R+++* r(+)>++
# Gamer Coffee-Addict Scripter Author # C(+++)$ USX+$ N++ e+*
@#$ Comments ? sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu $#@ tv(+)> X++ b++(+++)
@#$ <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ PS+&-+ PE&-&++ z*+?
Sorry, but I missed the original post...when is the Sabbat set scheduled
for release? September?
Thanks,
-Elfholme
--
******************************************************************************
This bit of wisdom has been brought to you by:
Mark Havener
Lord of
elfh...@netcom.com
Wood Elf King (and Jyhad player extraordinaire!)
******************************************************************************
Danny Oscar Kip wrote:
>And since this note is a note to put ya guys down >apparantly: DON'T MAKE
SO MANY VAMPS WITH NON CLAN >ABILITIES !(Dominate jumps to mind).
I have found that all the vampires with new weird (i.e. non clan)
disciplines (like Dominate...) are incredibly useful. In AH, it seems
like there are alot of good "Crossover" vamps that have good combinations
to fit in other clans, like Itzakh Rabin (3, pre, cel), a Ventrue who fits
just duckily in a Toreador deck, and all of these smallish crossover vamps
help to fill out the lower ranks of crypts. There are also plenty of good
vamps that give new abilities to clans that kind of needed them (like now
the Nosferatu can use bleed bounce reliably...) as well.
I am not sure, but I think that most of the basic clan discipline
combinations have been covered in small vamps with the new expansions.
For instance, the Nosferatu use Obfuscate, Animalism, and Potence, and now
there are Duck (3, obf, pot); Raziya Samater (Bruj 3 ani, pot); and
Panagos Levidis (Gan 3, obf, ani). With these 3 vamps, a Nosferatu deck
can pick the perfect small vamp for whatever deck they build and still
stick to clan disciplines (if not clan vampires...)
I, for one, am still waiting for some more smallish vamps with superior
Potence, as there is only one vamp smaller than 6 (Kieser Sosay) with POT,
while there are like 15 three, four, and five point vamps with superior
Auspex. Oh well.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
oh wedge antillies
the unsung saga hero
luke hogs the glory
-Star Wars Haiku by Tyler Jennings Brownings
reprinted with no good permission out of
"R2D2 is an Indie Rocker" zine from Ithaca NY
PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) wrote:
: I, for one, am still waiting for some more smallish vamps with superior: Potence, as there is only one vamp smaller than 6 (Kieser Sosay) with POT,
: while there are like 15 three, four, and five point vamps with superior
: Auspex. Oh well.
Don't forget Yuri - The Talon. He has superior Potence and inferior
presence. Not a great combination, but he's not to shabby none the less.
PDB6 thoughtfully stated:
: I, for one, am still waiting for some more smallish vamps with superior
: Potence, as there is only one vamp smaller than 6 (Kieser Sosay) with POT,
: while there are like 15 three, four, and five point vamps with superior
: Auspex. Oh well.
Don`t forget Hector Sosa, sup POT for 4. :)
-juan
--
___
/^\/\ ,, Juan Burwell | __| ||
( {=@=====[=] Amherst College | _| \\/\// /^\ ||//
\_/\/ '' jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu |___| \/\/ \_/ ||\\
J. Hamblin wrote:
> For one, I noticed a few typos and bad wordings on cards. Since I don't
> have them in front of me, I can't really say specifically, but I recall
> saying to myself "I hope they change that before printing it." My
> question is, how much of playtesting is readability of cards. I know
> that Jyhad (VtES) is a complex game, but there are many bad wordings out
> there that could have been nipped in the bud (or could they have...?)
The cards were *not* set in stone when they were printed. We wanted
to playtest them first, adjust for style later. The cards that were
handed out at the various previews were not accurate even when they
were handed out. We tried to make that clear at the previews, but of
course if someone wasn't there, they would not know this.
The text *will* be much, much cleaner on the real cards than on the
playtest cards.
> Secondly, the cards displayed new abilites (I believe) Obtenebration and
> Vicissitude. The symbols on the cards were displayed as an "O" and a
> "V". Will these be changed? I am not a follower of the White Wolf game,
> but I think that all of the ability symbols are cool, and we even have
> pet names for them ("fist" for potence and "eye" for auspex, to name a
> few). I would be disappointed if the new symbols were simply letters.
Once again, these are merely playtest things. We fully intend to use
appropriate symbols for the new clans.
> Lastly, about the rulebook. I know that you know that the Jyhad rulebook
> wasn't all that great, and the V:tES was better, with one (rather large)
> exception. For those of us not learning the game for the first time, we
> wanted to use the rulebook as a reference. Unfortunately, sometimes
> important rules were split in two; half in the "basic" game and half in
> the rest. Will Sabbat (which, since it is stand-alone, will probably
> have its own rulebook) keep the concept of the basic game, and if so,
> any ideas to clear this problem?
We are rewriting the rulebook to encompass not only new rules for Sabbat,
but to simplify things as well.
Hope this helps clear things up for ya! :)
--Shawn F. Carnes
Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc
WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
*************************************************************
"We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in
good health!" --Milk and Cheese
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> Eh?
> No offense, but didn't you company of employment put out Darkness Unveiled?
> (complete with a False Answers to Questions (FAQ) section?)
This is more of personal opinion on this one for me. There is no question
that DU got mixed reviews. I personally think that DU is quality stuff.
If someone else thinks another way, then that's fine. DU will not appeal
to everyone. As for the mistakes, I would be a blithering idiot to say,
"WotC doesn't make mistakes!" We try to catch them as much as possible, and
that's all we can do.
> And Dark Sovereigns (printed on the CCG-equivalent of tissue paper)?
I cannot, and will not comment on this on any official level. As Shawn F.
Carnes, V:TES goob and *not representing any company whatsoever*, I will say
that I was highly disappointed as well with the quality associated with the
printing for DS.
> And isn't that same error-laden FAQ is still present on the Web page,
> over six months after the errors were acknowledged?
Hmm... let me check the FAQ again. I will see if the most recent FAQ is up
there, and whether there are major problems associated with it. Thanks for
the heads up.
--Shawn F. Carnes
Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc
WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
*************************************************************
"We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in
good health!" --Milk and Cheese
Mark Havener wrote:
>
> Sorry, but I missed the original post...when is the Sabbat set scheduled
> for release? September?
It is scheduled for an October release. Look for it mid-to-late
October, to be as specific as I can right now.
--Shawn F. Carnes
Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc
WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
*************************************************************
"We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in
good health!" --Milk and Cheese
Thomas Doehne wrote:
>
> Shawn,
>
> When you play Jyhad, what rules variants does your group
> usually use? Has your group tried the Golden Tenets? Card
> Limits?
I have never tried GT, mainly because I have just received what
they are. :) Anyway, we like to tinker with all kinds of stuff,
like the variants in the book, "The Bells of Caine" (everyone
loses one pool at the start of every turn--QUICK GAME), or any
other mutant variant someone thinks of. Card Limits are big
recently, as well as booster drafts and the like.
--Shawn F. Carnes
Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc
WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
*************************************************************
"We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in
good health!" --Milk and Cheese
Various people wrote:
>Don't forget about vampire X who has superior Potence...
I guess I should have said Hector Sosa and not Keiser Sosay, but that is
who I meant (well, now no one will wonder who Keiser Sosay is...). Hector
is the smallest vamp currently with superior Potence, at a four (he has
pre and POT), and then there are numerous sixes with superior Potence, but
that is it. I find that sad, as there are close to an infinite number of
small (5 or smaller) vamps with superior Auspex, for instance.
Thanks for noticing though :-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Dustin Cote wrote:
> But, what I want to say is I'd rather see some of this effort put
> into more support for Jyhad. Local tournaments, regional tournaments, and
> national or convention-related tournaments. Post and promote sanctioned
> tournaments. I could really get something going here locally with a few
> color posters, promo prizes, and not much else except a really great
> game. I'm sure there are thousands of cities just like mine that aren't
> megaloposis's.
I want to see more support in that vein for V:TES as well. Someone asked
me at Origins (during the Sabbat preview) why we didn't give nearly as much
support as we did for Magic. Yes, Magic is a mega-$$$ machine, so the
support is easier. Still, I really didn't have a good answer. That got
me thinking as to how to improve what we already have.
This isn't much of an answer as well, but there are some hardcore fans
working on V:TES right now, and I think we are taking some positive steps
to rectify the lack of event support. The first step--better DCI rules...
rules that make ratings and the like worth more than, IMHO, they are right
now for V:TES.
From there, we will work to make more events available. How? To be honest,
I dunno. I guess we'll wing it. :)
--
--Shawn F. Carnes
Game Designer and Developer, Wizards of the Coast, Inc
WotC NetRep for rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
*************************************************************
"We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in
good health!" --Milk and Cheese
PDB6 (pd...@aol.com) wrote:
: I am not sure, but I think that most of the basic clan discipline: combinations have been covered in small vamps with the new expansions.
: For instance, the Nosferatu use Obfuscate, Animalism, and Potence, and now
: there are Duck (3, obf, pot); Raziya Samater (Bruj 3 ani, pot); and
: Panagos Levidis (Gan 3, obf, ani). With these 3 vamps, a Nosferatu deck
: can pick the perfect small vamp for whatever deck they build and still
: stick to clan disciplines (if not clan vampires...): Peter D Bakija
: PD...@aol.com
The problem here is that the more non-clan vampires you get in
a clan-specific deck, the more likely that some of your cards
will become unusable or useless, which brings you back time and
again to the original Jyhad vamps, in which case, why spend all
that money on expansions? If a new Nosferatu does not fit in a
deck of his clansmen (perhaps the Nossies are a poor example,
as I have always felt they make stronger decks when mixed with
Gangrel or Brujah) then, in my eyes, he is not as good as one
who does.
Wallpaper Paste
for all those useless cards
On 6 Aug 1996, PDB6 wrote:
> Various people wrote:> >Don't forget about vampire X who has superior Potence...> I guess I should have said Hector Sosa and not Keiser Sosay, but that is
> who I meant (well, now no one will wonder who Keiser Sosay is...).
We should all fear Keiser Sosay. Feel extreme fear, now...
[ quoted text not captured ]
>PDB6 thoughtfully stated:
>: I, for one, am still waiting for some more smallish vamps with superior
>: Potence, as there is only one vamp smaller than 6 (Kieser Sosay) with POT,
The greatest trick the Devil ever did was to convince people he
was a V:TES card, and <snap> he became a geek.
(PS Perhaps you mean Hector Sosa?)
--
________________ "There's nary an animal ______
___@^^^^\ / \ that can out run a / \
@ \_____/ David Schwartz \____greased_Scotsman!"____/ >
(^^^^^\ _______ ___/
\---\ / \ da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz /
\_____________/ \__________________________________/
And Verbal went on about Keiser Sosay being a Hungarian Drug Lord. Yeah,
that's it. A Hungarian.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
"Or what? You'll release your dogs? Or bees?
Or dogs with bees in their mouths, and
when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
-Homer Simpson