rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[OT] plugs for two dam' fine games

23 messages from 9 participants · 25 September 2000 – 27 September 2000
original thread on Google Groups

legb...@my-deja.com

Thanks to Prescott and LSJ i got to play two very fine games* in the USA which WEREN'T Jyhad/VTES, namely Fairy Meat [Kenzer games] and Vinci [Descartes]. Fairy meat is possibly the world's first 1:1 scale miniatures game, VERY vampiric and one of the funniest i've ever played. Vinci is sort of all the best bits of civilisation, Britannia and Cosmic Encounter all rolled into one, and it has an epic quality which should appeal to the Methuselah mind. When we played it the most civilised Methuselah turned out to be David Tatu. There's a kind of rightness about that, i obscurely feel. *Actually i got to play several other good games but i was so drunk that i can't even remember their names. Fairly sure i lost at all of them though. There was a good one with fancy marbles, called Zvrt or something equally bizarre. LSJ kicked my arse at that one, for sure. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Ethan Burrow

What??!? He didn't make you play Button Men?? <g> Since this is an off-topic thread, just wanted to mention that I dusted off my old Talisman board game last week and had a great time playing with all my siblings. Good game. In article <8qnrck$n6s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] ------------------------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

shsoton

Ethan Burrow <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8qnrrb$nlh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > What??!? He didn't make you play Button Men?? > > <g> > > Since this is an off-topic thread, just wanted to mention that I dusted > off my old Talisman board game last week and had a great time playing > with all my siblings. Good game. Talisman is a great game. Myself and Mr Green used to play a 2 player speed version. Excellent fun. Most of my childhood actually. Rob T (filling up with melancholy thoughts of card playing pieces that don't stay in their stands)

Derek Ray

On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:35:51 GMT, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: >Thanks to Prescott and LSJ i got to play two very fine games* in the USA >which WEREN'T Jyhad/VTES, namely Fairy Meat [Kenzer games] and Vinci >[Descartes]. Fairy meat is possibly the world's first 1:1 scale >miniatures game, VERY vampiric and one of the funniest i've ever played. There's nothing more amusing than watching a great big pile of 9 fairies beating on each other and attempting to eat fairy parts, while 3 others lurk around the edges trying to figure out how to pick off stragglers. =) >Vinci is sort of all the best bits of civilisation, Britannia and Cosmic >Encounter all rolled into one, and it has an epic quality which should >appeal to the Methuselah mind. When we played it the most civilised >Methuselah turned out to be David Tatu. There's a kind of rightness about >that, i obscurely feel. Hm. I thought there was a kind of definite WRONGness about it, but I guess you've not been to the Cheetah with him... =) HI TATU! =) >*Actually i got to play several other good games but i was so drunk that >i can't even remember their names. Drunk? NO! It's a vile rumour, I tell you! >Fairly sure i lost at all of them >though. There was a good one with fancy marbles, called Zvrt or something >equally bizarre. LSJ kicked my arse at that one, for sure. Yeah. I have no idea what that was, though I was sloshed and playing it at one point. A very good abstract game, one for the chessplayers and the like among us. ...This would be LSJ's cue to leap in and provide us with something more pronounceable than "Zvrt", although that might well have been how you said it at the time, all things considered. -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

L. Scott Johnson

Derek Ray wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > >Fairly sure i lost at all of them > >though. There was a good one with fancy marbles, called Zvrt or something > >equally bizarre. LSJ kicked my arse at that one, for sure. > > Yeah. I have no idea what that was, though I was sloshed and playing > it at one point. A very good abstract game, one for the chessplayers > and the like among us. ...This would be LSJ's cue to leap in and > provide us with something more pronounceable than "Zvrt", although > that might well have been how you said it at the time, all things > considered. 'Zertz', which is part of the Project GIPF series of games. http://www.gipf.com -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Beatings will continue http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | until morale improves. Graphics Specialist and V:TES Rulemonger |

legb...@my-deja.com

In article <8qnrrb$nlh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Ethan Burrow <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote: > What??!? He didn't make you play Button Men?? Oh yeah, button men too. i actually won a few games of that against Tatu. FANTASTIC game. > > <g> > > Since this is an off-topic thread, just wanted to mention that I dusted > off my old Talisman board game last week and had a great time playing > with all my siblings. Good game. Old talisman, that would be, and i agree. New talisman is shit, IMO. > > In article <8qnrck$n6s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Thanks to Prescott and LSJ i got to play two very fine games* in the > USA > > which WEREN'T Jyhad/VTES, namely Fairy Meat [Kenzer games] and Vinci > > [Descartes]. Fairy meat is possibly the world's first 1:1 scale > > miniatures game, VERY vampiric and one of the funniest i've ever > played. > > Vinci is sort of all the best bits of civilisation, Britannia and > Cosmic > > Encounter all rolled into one, and it has an epic quality which should > > appeal to the Methuselah mind. When we played it the most civilised > > Methuselah turned out to be David Tatu. There's a kind of rightness > about > > that, i obscurely feel. > > > > *Actually i got to play several other good games but i was so drunk > that > > i can't even remember their names. Fairly sure i lost at all of them > > though. There was a good one with fancy marbles, called Zvrt or > something > > equally bizarre. LSJ kicked my arse at that one, for sure. > [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com

In article <gccvss8sp2r6cfgf7...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:35:51 GMT, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > >Thanks to Prescott and LSJ i got to play two very fine games* in the USA > >which WEREN'T Jyhad/VTES, namely Fairy Meat [Kenzer games] and Vinci > >[Descartes]. Fairy meat is possibly the world's first 1:1 scale > >miniatures game, VERY vampiric and one of the funniest i've ever played. > > There's nothing more amusing than watching a great big pile of 9 > fairies beating on each other and attempting to eat fairy parts, while > 3 others lurk around the edges trying to figure out how to pick off > stragglers. =) Even reading the rulebook is a hoot. "Boys are so ICKY!!!!" > > >Vinci is sort of all the best bits of civilisation, Britannia and Cosmic > >Encounter all rolled into one, and it has an epic quality which should > >appeal to the Methuselah mind. When we played it the most civilised > >Methuselah turned out to be David Tatu. There's a kind of rightness about > >that, i obscurely feel. > > Hm. I thought there was a kind of definite WRONGness about it, but I > guess you've not been to the Cheetah with him... =) i'm not seeing the problem here - REALLY civilised people INVARIABLY bonk anything that moves. Or doesn't, for that matter. It's to do with having lots of free time and eating more high-quality food than you really need. > > HI TATU! =) Transatlantic hi! > > >*Actually i got to play several other good games but i was so drunk that > >i can't even remember their names. > > Drunk? NO! It's a vile rumour, I tell you! Tired and emotional, then. > > >Fairly sure i lost at all of them > >though. There was a good one with fancy marbles, called Zvrt or something > >equally bizarre. LSJ kicked my arse at that one, for sure. > > Yeah. I have no idea what that was, though I was sloshed and playing > it at one point. A very good abstract game, one for the chessplayers > and the like among us. ...This would be LSJ's cue to leap in and > provide us with something more pronounceable than "Zvrt", although > that might well have been how you said it at the time, all things > considered. > > -- Derek > One of the really neat things about it was that the BOARD changed as the game went on. LSJ's link to the game-makers in his reply to Derek's post isn't working for me, unfortunately. [ quoted text not captured ]

mgre...@my-deja.com

In article <uMKz5.2585$Yb3....@news.dircon.co.uk>, "shsoton" <shs...@dircon.co.uk> wrote: > > Since this is an off-topic thread, just wanted to mention that I dusted > > off my old Talisman board game last week and had a great time playing > > with all my siblings. Good game. > > Talisman is a great game. > Seconded > Myself and Mr Green used to play a 2 player speed version. Excellent fun. > Most of my childhood actually. > Good grief, the hours we spent playing that game. I remember the odd occasions that we coaxed your family into playing it with they looked on in bewilderment as we powered up our characters and trashed them. We played at speed and also played around the rules at times as i recall: 'Rob, don't you think that if this alledged 'maiden' is unaffected by a whirlwind, then this fully laiden horse and cart repleat with all my loot would be likewise??' 'OK Matt, we can count the horse and cart as a follower instead of an artifact if you want' 'OK, cool' 'My turn. Cast mesmerism to steal one of your followers...' Same sleaze. Different game. > Rob T > (filling up with melancholy thoughts of card playing pieces that don't stay > in their stands) > Ah, the Philosopher. He wasn't overpowered. Just as good as the Ghoul. Totally fair. matt. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com

In article <8qq1to$9kf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Did you guys ever play Arcadia/Wyld Hunt or King Ironheart's Madness? They were made by White Wolf and were basically a collectible card-game version of Talisman, it seemed to me. Excellent artwork [except for the Leagues - yeuch!], easy to learn and very funny, especially KIHM - Affectionate Oil Slick, Pathetic Snivelling, Proselytising Velociraptors and the Newt Gingrich Spoof [Speakers?] being possibly my favourite cards for any CCG of all time ever. Not quite sure why they never took off - something to do with negative tactics against the other players being overpowered, perhaps, or maybe it's just that NOBODY except my friend Marianne wants to play at being a soppy fairy. Fierce cannibalistic fairies are, of course, TOTALLY cool. Long may they Twinkle, Pose, Pounce, Flutter and Frolic through the land! [ quoted text not captured ]

mgre...@my-deja.com

In article <8qqfp3$1bk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > > > Talisman is a great game. > > > > > Seconded > > > > > Did you guys ever play Arcadia/Wyld Hunt or King Ironheart's Madness? > They were made by White Wolf and were basically a collectible card-game > version of Talisman, it seemed to me. [snip] No, not really. CCGs only really started up when Rob went to So'ton to uni so we really only played M:TG and V:TES before I went to uni too and we both settled in the V:TES groove. Saying that we did get Talisman Dragons quite late on and went back to playing the game with that (The best expansion for the game BTW, it really sorts the men from the boys. Turn2: can you handle a dragon attack? no? you'll be losing a life then). Other stuff we played to death between 1987 and 1994: Battlecars/ Car Wars/ A LOT of Runequest (GW)/ Top Secret/ Warrior Knights/ Block Mania/ Kings and Things/ Aquire/ Warlock/ Chess plus a fair few other bad games once or twice (DragonQuest...Rouge Trooper [***king terrible]...DungeonQuest...Valley of the 4 Winds) Any I missed Rob? matt. [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian

matt wrote; > plus a fair few other bad games once or twice (DragonQuest...Rouge > Trooper [***king terrible]...DungeonQuest...Valley of the 4 Winds) Rogue Trooper? As in a game based on the 2000AD comic? Wild. Damn Brits getting all the cool stuff. Even if it did suck. It'd still be neat to see. Xian -- I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. --_Shellshock_, New Order www.waste.org/~xian

legb...@my-deja.com

In article <o48A5.528$hq4.2...@news.uswest.net>, "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > matt wrote; > > plus a fair few other bad games once or twice (DragonQuest...Rouge > > Trooper [***king terrible]...DungeonQuest...Valley of the 4 Winds) > > Rogue Trooper? As in a game based on the 2000AD comic? Wild. > > Damn Brits getting all the cool stuff. Even if it did suck. It'd still be > neat to see. > > Xian > You can have my copy as a loan. Trust me, you WON'T want to keep it. The 2000AD spin off you might actually like is the Judge Dredd thingy. Unfortunately i don't have it but you can pick it up second-hand sometimes for not too many pennies. Games Workshop did it and it had some [for that epoch] pretty good miniatures. > -- > I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold. > A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart. > --_Shellshock_, New Order > www.waste.org/~xian > > [ quoted text not captured ]

shsoton

<mgre...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8qqijf$2u5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <8qqfp3$1bk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: [snip] > > No, not really. CCGs only really started up when Rob went to So'ton to > uni so we really only played M:TG and V:TES before I went to uni too and > we both settled in the V:TES groove. Saying that we did get Talisman > Dragons quite late on and went back to playing the game with that (The > best expansion for the game BTW, it really sorts the men from the boys. > Turn2: can you handle a dragon attack? no? you'll be losing a life > then). > > Other stuff we played to death between 1987 and 1994: > Battlecars/ Car Wars/ A LOT of Runequest (GW)/ Top Secret/ Warrior > Knights/ Block Mania/ Kings and Things/ Aquire/ Warlock/ Chess > > plus a fair few other bad games once or twice (DragonQuest...Rouge > Trooper [***king terrible]...DungeonQuest...Valley of the 4 Winds) > > Any I missed Rob? > > matt. Ahhh Matt, all the above conjure fond memories but how could you possibly forget the delights of Stratego (did you know they do a 4 player version of that now!!! shudder) and the physical digit abuse that was Crossfire - out of interest did we break both red guns or just the one ? Illuminati, Hacker?? The sordid list goes on and on. Early on we played Fighting Fantasy books quite a bit and those 2 player White Warlord / Black Baron books that belong on the shelf of an S & M store. Also do you remember that game with the phallic black computer tower that turned around.. Dark Tower I think ?? Curse of the Mummies Tomb (GW) absolutely HAS to go into the esteemed Hall of Shite, that cardboard catastrophe blew goats. Pondering all the old games on the train going home, a recurring theme strikes me. We always managed to totally stretch / abuse the game in hand as much as possible. I am proud of this, it reflects in our V:TES game ho ho ho. Rob T

mgre...@my-deja.com

In article <cMlA5.2750$Yb3....@news.dircon.co.uk>, "shsoton" <shs...@dircon.co.uk> wrote: > [snip] > Ahhh Matt, all the above conjure fond memories but how could you possibly > forget the delights of Stratego (did you know they do a 4 player version of > that now!!! shudder) and the physical digit abuse that was Crossfire - out > of interest did we break both red guns or just the one ? Illuminati, > Hacker?? The sordid list goes on and on. > Ahh, the nostalgia. Yeah, we broke both Crossfire guns as i recall, although one was FUBAR for a while after we tryed to file out the barrel to get 2 shots at once (seriously). Hacker's good, as is Illuminati. I can reccommend Spammers by Altas games (Lunchmoney et al) in a similar vein. > Early on we played Fighting Fantasy books quite a bit and those 2 player > White Warlord / Black Baron books that belong on the shelf of an S & M > store. Also do you remember that game with the phallic black computer tower > that turned around.. Dark Tower I think ?? > I'd blacked that one out of my memory. That went to the attic pretty quickly, as i remember, on the grounds of excessive randomness: Matts Turn: Move into this square... DARK TOWER: Diddy-di-di-deee! [Gain reinforcements and gold]. Robs turn : Great i'll go there too! DARK TOWER: Diddly deee-de-eeeeee-duuuuum. [wipe out your entire army, steal your girlfriend, empty your bank account, kick your dog] Meggie: Woof! oooow! Everything we played was either totally startegic, or excessively violent. In fact thinking about it, even the strategic ones were violent. Remember 'Shuggy Hall Brawl' from that issue of White Dwarf? each player picked a team of barflies and set about eavch other with pool cues. Yes they gave this away in a kids magazine! Its a suprise we turned out balanced. And that no one found the bodies bricked up in the cellar of no. 23... > Curse of the Mummies Tomb (GW) absolutely HAS to go into the esteemed Hall > of Shite, that cardboard catastrophe blew goats. > Warlock of Firetop Mountain? Kind of like snakes and ladders but with more randomness. > Pondering all the old games on the train going home, a recurring theme > strikes me. We always managed to totally stretch / abuse the game in hand as > much as possible. I am proud of this, it reflects in our V:TES game ho ho > ho. > > Rob T > Definately. If the rules didn't say that you explicitly couldn't- it was a goer. Junsan the Barbarian? Ash Hawkdale? Man, we RULED Glorantha. Do you remember feigning illnes so you could complete Champions of Krynn on the Commodore 64?! good times. matt. [ quoted text not captured ]

hamd...@my-deja.com

<snip> Don't anyone forget THE king of shite fantasy related games... Hero Quest (cue loads of "I attack with my broadsword") Laugh? I nearly fell off my stool! We used to have a Hero Quest club at school! We were young... we knew no better. You mentioned Fighting Fantasy, but did anyone ever work out how to complete "Starship Traveller" - it's the only one I've got I never finished. How about "I vant to suck your blood" - the game where the looser had to get his finger "bitten" by a giant plastic vampire (really 2 magic markers leaving red "bite marks")? Quite apt for this group, I'd have thought. Actually, most of theese games amounto tthe only thing that was good about the 1980s! DH [ quoted text not captured ]

mgre...@my-deja.com

In article <8qstbn$rh9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > You mentioned Fighting Fantasy, but did anyone ever work out how to > complete "Starship Traveller" - it's the only one I've got I never > finished. > You're joking right? You can 4-move-finish that one by going to the west star system from the opening passage! Easiest one of the lot. Now House of Hell and Appointment with F.E.A.R...they were a different matter. matt. [ quoted text not captured ]

hamd...@my-deja.com

In article <8qt0sk$urd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, mgre...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <8qstbn$rh9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > > You mentioned Fighting Fantasy, but did anyone ever work out how to > > complete "Starship Traveller" - it's the only one I've got I never > > finished. > > > You're joking right? You can 4-move-finish that one by going to the west > star system from the opening passage! Easiest one of the lot. > > Now House of Hell and Appointment with F.E.A.R...they were a different > matter. God, those two were great! FEAR was great because there were 3 ways of completing it depending on which Super Power you took. My favourite FF book was Beast of Havoc, simply becuase it had a really mad enigma device that ment you really had really think to read it - all letters are actually the next letter on, except vowels which are really spaces!!!! I quite liked Steve Jacksons "Sourcery" series too. There was a loop in it that meant by the end of book two you could end up with infinite gold pieces (if you were that sad to do it... guilty as charged) DH [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com

Just been reading the other OT thread here and i noticed for a secand tahm that often when i click on a message from Matt or Rob aka the Kings of Sleaze the advertising at the side is from Penthouse [a magazine containing pictures of nekkid leddies]. i feel that this Means Something, and propose to give all my money to the first obvious charlatan who can give me a Fully Satisfying explanation for this and all other Mysteries of the Universe, including the X-men CCG. [ quoted text not captured ]

Rob Treasure

<mgre...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8qssnn$r04$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Still have recurring nightmares about that twisted mo-fo of a game. > Everything we played was either totally startegic, or excessively > violent. In fact thinking about it, even the strategic ones were > violent. Remember 'Shuggy Hall Brawl' from that issue of White Dwarf? > each player picked a team of barflies and set about eavch other with > pool cues. Yes they gave this away in a kids magazine! That is the best, I had totally forgotten that one, weapon of choice was the chair or the pool cue. Early vintage agitation..... Matt "My turn, excellent. I'll hang back behind the bar and in the john." Rob "Matt, you pussy grab some furniture and wade in i'm defenceless!!!" > Its a suprise we turned out balanced. And that no one found the bodies > bricked up in the cellar of no. 23... Did you notice how Denise and Joanne went missing for a while??? Totally had them gimped up in the 'target' sorry I mean shed!! > > Curse of the Mummies Tomb (GW) absolutely HAS to go into the esteemed > Hall > > of Shite, that cardboard catastrophe blew goats. > > > Warlock of Firetop Mountain? Kind of like snakes and ladders but with > more randomness. Early Blood Bowl and Chaos Marauders kicked ass. > > Pondering all the old games on the train going home, a recurring theme > > strikes me. We always managed to totally stretch / abuse the game in > hand as > > much as possible. I am proud of this, it reflects in our V:TES game ho > ho > > ho. > > > > Rob T > > > Definately. If the rules didn't say that you explicitly couldn't- it was > a goer. Junsan the Barbarian? Ash Hawkdale? Man, we RULED Glorantha. The Iron Warriors and Gertrude the Yak stood no chance. > Do you remember feigning illnes so you could complete Champions of Krynn > on the Commodore 64?! The old thermometer on the radiator trick if i recall, that bad boy always works a charm. > good times. > > matt. Wow, we are so far off topic it's unreal - cool. Rob. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.166 / Virus Database: 79 - Release Date: 20/06/00

Xian

legbiter wrote: [Rogue Trooper] > You can have my copy as a loan. Trust me, you WON'T want to keep it. I'll take it. :) > The 2000AD spin off you might actually like is the Judge Dredd thingy. > Unfortunately i don't have it but you can pick it up second-hand > sometimes for not too many pennies. Games Workshop did it and it had some > [for that epoch] pretty good miniatures. I've got a Judge Dredd RPG by Games Workshop, and a corresponding Citi-Block map thing, but only paper figures. Miniatures would have been the best. Have I mentioned that I have a better (US reprint) collection of Judge Dredd comics than any comic book store I've ever seen? And about 80 issues of 2000AD. Yup, that's my *other* addiction. Or maybe my third or fourth... Xian [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com

<snip> > > Early Blood Bowl and Chaos Marauders kicked ass. > Isn't it odd how very many fine games GW produced and then "adjusted" till they were absolutely pointless? It hurt most for Space Marine/Epic, Talisman and Blood Bowl but the same thing basically has happened to Warhammer and WH40K. i spose you could argue that WH/40K were cursed at birth by Magic and ranged combat respectively, and of course it is also true that many of the games they produced started off pants. My prize for worst game ever would probably go to Spellfire or Wyvern but in truth the worst game i have ever played more than once was GW's Armageddon, a thinly-disguised WW2 Eastern Front game with the Orks as the Germans and the Empire as the Russians. Andrew Sparkes and i ended up calling it the Game Where You Always Win if you're the Orcs. i like Mordheim, though - cool little miniatures and buildings and LOTS of fish. Nearly as good as Flintloque, i'd say. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com

In article <%ToA5.59$XZ5.1...@news.uswest.net>, "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote: > > legbiter wrote: > [Rogue Trooper] > > You can have my copy as a loan. Trust me, you WON'T want to keep it. > > I'll take it. :) > > > The 2000AD spin off you might actually like is the Judge Dredd thingy. > > Unfortunately i don't have it but you can pick it up second-hand > > sometimes for not too many pennies. Games Workshop did it and it had some > > [for that epoch] pretty good miniatures. > > I've got a Judge Dredd RPG by Games Workshop, and a corresponding Citi-Block > map thing, but only paper figures. Miniatures would have been the best. > > Have I mentioned that I have a better (US reprint) collection of Judge Dredd > comics than any comic book store I've ever seen? And about 80 issues of > 2000AD. > > Yup, that's my *other* addiction. Or maybe my third or fourth... > > Xian > i'll throw in 2 decks and some boosters for the Dredd CCG, then, bought and played for about 10 minutes once. Have to say i found it HORRIBLY boring, though not quite as insultingly dull and pointless as the X-men CCG. [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian

<legb...@my-deja.com> wrote : > i'll throw in 2 decks and some boosters for the Dredd CCG, then, bought > and played for about 10 minutes once. Have to say i found it HORRIBLY > boring, though not quite as insultingly dull and pointless as the X-men > CCG. You don't realize the extent of my problem here. I bought the Judge Dredd pinball game. I am currently bidding on a giant plastic eagle accessory for it. As far as I am aware, this is the ultimate of all Judge Dredd collector items. Or at least the biggest commercially available. I don't think they sold street-legal versions of the Lawmaster used in the (shudder) Stallone film. Xian