rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

First strike

7 messages from 4 participants · 25 October 1996 – 11 November 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Anonymous

This exert is taken straight from the *Jyhad* rules that are posted up on the net. First Strike: The strike of a minion with first strike is resolved before the strike of the opposing minion. If both minions have first strike, then the strikes are resolved simultaneously. <<Example Snipped>> Albeit vague, this in itself seems to suggest that First Strike resolves before a dodge or S:CE, however we should read on.... Dodge: The Dodge strike card deals no damage, but it negates the effect of the opponent's strike that round. Combat Ends: Considered a strike, this ends combat immediately (before any damage is dealt or any strike's effects take place). Note that combat ends is not affected by Dodge and even cancels strikes with first strike. I feel that this clears up any murky waters that the First strike description failed to. Dodge resolves after the First Strike, and therefore will fail to prevent that strike. However S:CE ends combat as the strike is played, rather than as it is resolved, hence it can counter a First strike, but dodge cannot. I understand that these are the original *Jyhad* rules and may be officially out of date, however many of us still play the game in its original form. There are two points that I would like to bring to your attention regarding this: 1: <<This is a shakey fact and I may need to be corrected on this, so don't go O.T.T on the Flames>> The rule from V:tES about First strikes being countered by dodges is written in the *Basic Game* section of the rules, and therefore could well be wrong. There may be an alteration in the advanced game section, there may not - the rule book was pretty badly screwed anyway, so we just kept with the Jyhad rules. 2: If First strike can be countered by a dodge, in terms of game mechanics, it seems hardly worth having first strike cards at all. If Equipment destroy cards can be countered with a dodge it makes them so weak that they become hardly worlth using. Also, for the cards that show a difference between inferior and superior as the addition of a first strike (FS), it seems only useful against weapons, there would be no advantage to destroying / stealing a sports bike or flak jacket with FS. Also, for cards that allow you to use damage with first strike (Back stab and silence of death) seem of little use, especially considering the blood cost, rarity and difficulty to use these cards. Whats the point of doing a FS Taste of death to get someone into torpor quick smart, if they can dodge it as normal. Especially with backstab when you've paid all that extra blood and can only use it when blocking. May be the rules have changed since the old Jyhad, but the cards seem to have been designed with the old rules in mind. I would urge you all, that if this ruling proves to go in favour of dodges then take up the old Jyhad rule as a house rule.

L. Scott Johnson

Neve...@mind.com (Anonymous) writes: >Dodge: The Dodge strike card deals no damage, but it negates the effect > of the opponent's strike that round. >I feel that this clears up any murky waters that the First strike >description failed to. Dodge resolves after the First Strike, and therefore >will fail to prevent that strike. However S:CE ends combat as the strike is >played, rather than as it is resolved, hence it can counter a First strike, >but dodge cannot. Jyhad justification for Dodge "beating" First Strike - not necessary in VtES: Dodge isn't worded as preventing a strike, it negates the effect of the strike. It will do this whether it resolves before or after that other strike. With this in mind, it is simpler to just say that Dodge resolves first (which generates the same results). >1: <<This is a shakey fact and I may need to be corrected on this, so >don't go O.T.T on the Flames>> The rule from V:tES about First strikes being >countered by dodges is written in the *Basic Game* section of the rules, and >therefore could well be wrong. There may be an alteration in the advanced >game section, there may not - the rule book was pretty badly screwed anyway, >so we just kept with the Jyhad rules. There isn't, as I've already pointed out to you in e-mail. >May be the rules have changed since the old Jyhad, but the cards seem to >have been designed with the old rules in mind. I would urge you all, that if >this ruling proves to go in favour of dodges then take up the old Jyhad rule >as a house rule. The rules haven't changed in functionality, only in clarity (w.r.t. Dodge) -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Cats teach us that not http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | everything in nature has Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | a function.

CurtAdams

>May be the rules have changed since the old Jyhad, but the cards seem to >have been designed with the old rules in mind. I would urge you all, that if >this ruling proves to go in favour of dodges then take up the old Jyhad rule >as a house rule. If you think so, you should propose "First Strike beats Dodge" as a house rule for LSJ's house rule list. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Anonymous

>If you think so, you should propose "First Strike beats Dodge" as a house >rule for LSJ's house rule list. I'm sorry, but I thought that that was effectively what I was doing...

L. Scott Johnson

Neve...@mind.com (Anonymous) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] You should check the header on the list (posted today). Addendum to that header: No Anonymous house rules. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I don't suffer from insanity. http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | I enjoy every minute of it. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

Richard Braxton <"75424,2203"@compuserve.com> writes: >Anonymous wrote: >> >> >If you think so, you should propose "First Strike beats Dodge" as a house >> >rule for LSJ's house rule list. >> >> I'm sorry, but I thought that that was effectively what I was doing...AS the rules state... >Strike Resolution is as follows: >1st: Combat Ends >2nd: First Strike - if both are first strike then simo. >3rd: Normal Stikes - ><resolve damage phase> >4th: Assign next (if any) addition strike and repeat above Yes, and the rules also state: Dodge: A "dodge" deals no damage, but it prevents the effect of the opponent's strike that round, even if the opponent's strike was delivered with First Strike. This makes the effective strike ordering: 1) S:CE 2) S: Dodge 3) Strike w/ First Strike 4) "Normal" strike This is official, and has always been so. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Only XT users know that http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Jan 1, 1980 was a Tuesday. [ quoted text not captured ]

Richard Braxton

Anonymous wrote: > > >If you think so, you should propose "First Strike beats Dodge" as a house > >rule for LSJ's house rule list. > > I'm sorry, but I thought that that was effectively what I was doing...AS the rules state... Strike Resolution is as follows: 1st: Combat Ends 2nd: First Strike - if both are first strike then simo. 3rd: Normal Stikes - <resolve damage phase> 4th: Assign next (if any) addition strike and repeat above -- ___________________________________________________________ Richard Braxton 75424...@compuserve.com