Most common in-game mistakes

What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? Things like: 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your untap phase. 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground.

Not remembering to influenc a new vamp to uncontrolled from the crypt. Especially bad when playing weenies.

[ quoted text not captured ] Forgetting to bleed to get the Edge before calling a vote, when the Edge votes matter.

On May 26, 4:08 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Forgetting to tap corporeal resrervoir during combat with Basilia, where you hit her with an Agged up garrote, and she does not get burnt due to your smite going to torpor cos you did not tap the aforementioned Corp res. Then having the same basilia get rescued and munch all your vamps.......

Failing to take the pool for the Edge is by far & away the most common. After that: Forgetting to add Temptation counters. Forgetting to remove Week of Nightmares counters. Not transferring pool back from uncontrolled Minions when very low.

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > Forgetting to tap corporeal resrervoir during combat with Basilia, > where you hit her with an Agged up garrote, and she does not get burnt > due to your smite going to torpor cos you did not tap the > aforementioned Corp res. Then having the same basilia get rescued and > munch all your vamps....... That's _most common_ ? What a straaaaaange metagame you have.

[ quoted text not captured ] I didn't read the rest of this thread yet, so forgive the duplication, if any. Forgetting... 3. ...to bleed for 1 *before* your vote action. 4. ...to put counters on your cards (e.g. Temptation). 5. ...that you can't Disarm someone who's already been Disarmed.

On May 26, 9:58 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] He doesn't play with Norm does he? I could see that coming up a lot if you played with Norm. John P. Winnipeg

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1f12d2cb-570c-419d...@r13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Along the same line -- using a vessel. These are mandatory, but if a turn or two passes and you can't remember whether you did it or not it can cause problems: Paying for Baali to untap. Paying for Fame penalty. Paying for Smiling Jack. In fact a lot of the mistakes I have are with the tricky untap phase -- it's so easy to untap your minions that immediately play a master card without further ado. neil

[ quoted text not captured ] Forgetting to play the bleed boost when bleeding with a Govern and Arika, and your prey is at 6 pool, has 1 minion, and you have a seduction in hand (Just do the math, and you'll see...). best - chris (ok, that's not so common - Kevin's list is more likely).

On May 26, 11:20 am, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > > > Things like: > > 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your > > untap phase. > > 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground. > > Forgetting to play the bleed boost when bleeding with a Govern and > Arika, and your prey is at 6 pool, has 1 minion, and you have a > seduction in hand (Just do the math, and you'll see...). > I'm having trouble with the math... what does the seduction have to do with it? If you've forgotten to play the bleed boost, then it's way too late to play the seduction that's still in your hand - either you already played one and it's just jamming your hand, or else not playing the seduction was a bigger mistake than not playing the bleed boost (unless you didn't need the seduction in the first place...). Anyway, a bleed for 5 causes Arika to burn just as easily as a bleed for 6, regardless of which one gets "reduced to 3".

Forgetting "do not replace". Forgetting stuff and end of turn, like Leather Jacket. Forgetting which minions that has voted and bled.

[ quoted text not captured ] See being able to read is obviously a major help here. The "most common" bit just went way over my head. I thought it said most Doh! effect mistakes. Most common is getting vessel vs blood doll confused and forgetting to take blood

[ quoted text not captured ] See? Too many to state. Do? With an emphasis on the mistake portion: Forgetting to steal or burn cards of the The Rack, Mob Connections, et al sort. Forgetting to play out of turn masters or burn off an extra wake.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hmm. I get the impression Lasombra was asking for game-legal tactical errors. May want to branch two topics for this (game-legal tactical errors players make, and rules that players forget/break).

LSJ wrote: > Hmm. > > I get the impression Lasombra was asking for game-legal tactical errors. May > want to branch two topics for this (game-legal tactical errors players make, and > rules that players forget/break). Yeah, I was noticing that too as I read down the thread. Pointing out that we should all remember to do stuff that is obviously either good or required isn't all that interesting. Here are some common play mistakes I see: 1. "Spooging" cards. This is when you play a card that you're likely to need in the future at a time when it is far less helpful than it could have been. For example, if you need to +2 stealth to succeed in an action, and your only source of stealth is a Faceless Night, don't play it hoping to draw another stealth card. The most likely result is that you won't draw one, you'll still get blocked, and now you're down a stealth card that you obviously needed. 2. Cycling for no reason. This is somewhat related, but a little different. I often see people play as though the object of the game is to run out of cards as fast as possible, or watch people do absurdly stupid things just to draw new cards. The worst is when people cycle like maniacs in the hopes of seeing something good, but have no clear idea what it is they're looking for. 3. Spending counters you can't afford to spend. This often accompanies the previous 2. You play a card with a cost on it just to get it out of your hand, even though you can't afford the cost. This is probably best solved at the deck construction level, where it's generally better to avoid blood and pool costs except on cards that are vital to your strategy. I'm sure I could come up with more, but I have to go a different thing. Jesse

On May 26, 12:44 pm, jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote: > > 2. Cycling for no reason. This is somewhat related, but a little > different. I often see people play as though the object of the game is > to run out of cards as fast as possible, or watch people do absurdly > stupid things just to draw new cards. The worst is when people cycle > like maniacs in the hopes of seeing something good, but have no clear > idea what it is they're looking for. > Something I see a lot more of than this is almost the opposite - not discarding during your discard phase. Unless your hand is set up perfectly for what you want to do, you should almost always discard. I make it a rule to discard anything I can't use in the next 2 turns (with a few exceptions, like Week of Nightmares or Archon Investigation), to always discard a master card if I have more than 2 (not counting trifles), and to always discard an action card if I have more of them in hand than I can play next turn (again, with some exceptions). Two copies of the same reaction or action modifier? Discard 1 if there's nothing better to ditch. No matter how much you really want to hold onto that Far Mastery that might have a use several turns down the line, or that Deflection when you have no vamps with dominate but are hoping you might draw one from your crypt or draw a skill card... no matter how much you love what's in your hand for whatever reason, you could almost *always* have a better hand. And you only get one free no-requirements no-strings- attached chance to cycle each turn, so use it... I get almost physically ill when I see someone sit there transferring the first 3 turns without discarding anything, and then I hear them complain that they don't have the card they need once their giant minion can finally act, or that they "just didn't draw any bounce". You skipped 3 potential chances to draw better cards!

On May 26, 6:50 am, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I'd like to think that I'm better at these two. Now I would say that it can be hardest to track all of the various table effects or specials. For example: Fame Tension Dragonbound Antediluvian Awakening Events (add or reduce stealth, require certain things, prevent things) Coven(moves to Pred) Vampires' special abilities(+1 str, +1 intercept, dodge as a strike, something funky etc)- Reading these is very important and was covered in a thread recently. Checking other Methuselahs' pool, especially when it is stacked/piled/ obscured in some way(also discussed in an earlier thread) Brandon

[ quoted text not captured ] Holding one's cards in such a manner that you show them to other players. Tipping off that you have a Deflection/Majesty/Wake/Machine Blitz in your hand by prematurely reaching for it. Forgetting to return a Powerbase: Montreal/Disarm/Coven/Infamous Warlock to its owner at the end of a game. - Ben Peal

On 26 Maj, 19:03, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] These become tactical errors. For example: I could have bled with one more guy, since Leather Jacket untaps him at the end of turn. Or: I thought I could oust my prey but had forgotten that one minion already had bled this turn. Now I´m all but tapped out... Do not replace, however, that´s rulebreaking. I don´t know if that´s an "in-game mistake". My english isn´t good enough!

I know the one I make the most often, even more often that forgetting to take pool for the Edge! My most common in-game mistake is sitting down with one of my own decks. The foolish fool that I am. That wasn't what you were looking for, was it? -D

In article <1f12d2cb-570c-419d...@r13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, The Lasombra <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, just more votes for: -Not taking pool for the edge. -Not getting blood from your HG/Rack/Archetype. -Not putting counters on cards you own, like Temptation or Power Base X. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff

per_m...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 26 Maj, 19:03, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> per_math...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> Forgetting "do not replace". >>> Forgetting stuff and end of turn, like Leather Jacket. >>> Forgetting which minions that has voted and bled. >> Hmm. >> >> I get the impression Lasombra was asking for game-legal tactical errors. May >> want to branch two topics for this (game-legal tactical errors players make, and >> rules that players forget/break). > > These become tactical errors. For example: I could have bled with one > more guy, since Leather Jacket untaps him at the end of turn. Forgetting "Do Not Replace" and "Untap this" are procedural errors. They violate the rules of the game (where rules of the game includes "follow card text"). Untapping via the Leather Jacket is not optional. It cannot be overlooked. "Forgetting Leather Jacket" typically means this. "Forgetting that the Leather Jacket effect will untap a given minion later this turn", well, that's something else, yes (see below). > Or: I > thought I could oust my prey but had forgotten that one minion already > had bled this turn. Now I�m all but tapped out... Ah, misremembering game history (like "VampireBob will untap this turn because of the Leather Jacket"), a third type of error. This type can easily be argued to be a type of tactical error of the kind Lasombra gave examples. > Do not replace, however, that�s rulebreaking. I don�t know if that�s > an "in-game mistake". My english isn�t good enough! It's a violation of the rules (like not untapping via the "untap this" effect from Leather Jacket is), different than the types of tactical errors (or a broader term to encompass game history and the like: game-legal oversights) given by Lasombra.

Common mistakes I've seen going around our playgroup in general... Most seem to boil down to "I have this awesome-tastic plan in my head where I play this card, and then this one, and then.... oh crap I, er, er, er, bugger...(puts at least one minion into own torpor region and possibly packs up cards before being bled out in the next turn)" - forgetting to gain from the Edge - miscounting pool/votes on the table (and including the Edge) - ignoring cards (Smiling Jack, Week of Nightmares, etc) - forgetting permacept/permastealth on minions - forgetting "Only usable by X" conditions on cards (which i recently did to the extreme death of Paul Forrest in a tournament... Julian, you enjoyed that WAAAAY too much) - not counting your own pool (and cost of cards) properly... I'm looking at you Benny (the Infamous "Death by Patronage" moment...)

> Forgetting to tap corporeal resrervoir during combat with Basilia, > where you hit her with an Agged up garrote, and she does not get burnt > due to your smite going to torpor cos you did not tap the > aforementioned Corp res. Then having the same basilia get rescued and > munch all your vamps....... This happens to you a lot? jase

> Yeah, just more votes for: > > -Not taking pool for the edge. > -Not getting blood from your HG/Rack/Archetype. > -Not putting counters on cards you own, like Temptation or Power Base X. Ditto, with additions: -Failing to account for Untap Pool loss (Fame, Antediluvian Awakening) -Playing a Master before you draw cards for your Heart of Cheating (happens more than you would believe) -Failing to stack conviction on your Imbued jase

On May 26, 11:50 pm, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > > Things like: > 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your > untap phase. > 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground. Two common ones I see are: - spending too much pool on cool stuff that you won't get much benefit from (and you end up getting ousted because you overspent, I think we all see this from time to time) - spending not enough pool! I see this quite a lot. Player is on 10 or 12 pool, their predator doesn't have much lunge or 'burst' bleed / vote power, they get a vp and go to 16 or 18 pool, and don't bring out another vamp, and wonder why they're struggling to get their second vp. If you got it, spend it. If you don't got it, save it.

The Lasombra schrieb: > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > > Things like: > 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your > untap phase. > 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground. > > 1) Not playing Dominate 2) Blocking things you shouldn�t bother rather than key actions

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Lasombra <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > -Not getting blood from your HG/Rack/Archetype. > -Not putting counters on cards you own, like Temptation or PowerBaseX. The Rack is not a 'may'. Powerbase:Madrid and :MexicoCity are not a 'may'. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/

On May 26, 6:21 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > The Rack is not a 'may'. > > Powerbase:Madrid and :MexicoCity are not a 'may'. I realize that there has been a lot of back and forth as to what is or is not an appropriate "mistake", but Jeff asked "what are the most common in game mistakes you make/see". Not putting blood on your guys from a Rack or not putting counters on a PB are common mistakes that I see (and do) all the time. That you are required to back up and fix it doesn't make them any less of a common mistake. -Peter

On May 26, 4:53 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article > <1f12d2cb-570c-419d-a48f-19dd2d70b...@r13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, > The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > > > Things like: > > 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your > > untap phase. > > 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground. > > Yeah, just more votes for: > > -Not taking pool for the edge. > -Not getting blood from your HG/Rack/Archetype. > -Not putting counters on cards you own, like Temptation or Power Base X. > Agree with these. In addition, I see other people: 1) Losing cards someone takes control of and forgetting to get them back after a game (sleaving the card when it moves really helps here). 2) Transferring out - almost always an in-game mistake. Later, ~Rehlow

On May 26, 9:50 am, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > What are the most common in-game mistakes that you see happening? > > Things like: > 1) Forgetting to take a pool for holding the Edge at the start of your > untap phase. > 2) Failing to use a Hunting Ground. #1a forgetting Edge pool #1b forgetting Hunting Ground blood (a more frequent than b) #2 expecting opponents' deck to be predictable (e.g. conform to archtypes, have many of any card they have some of, ...) #3 misjudging power balance; supporting/tolerating someone who's already too strong #4 blocking because you can, rather than because you should Of course, in some metas, the choices involved in error #2 would actually be good choices.

[ quoted text not captured ] LSJ, in the case of violating the DNR rule on a card or just plain over-drawing, what would you say the best remedy is? -place the card back on top of your library -place the card in your library and shuffle -show the card to other players, then shuffle it into your library -all/some of the above -other I would think that an apology would be appropriate, in addition to other solutions. Thanks, Brandon

brandons...@yahoo.com wrote: > LSJ, in the case of violating the DNR rule on a card or just plain > over-drawing, what would you say the best remedy is? > > -place the card back on top of your library > -place the card in your library and shuffle > -show the card to other players, then shuffle it into your library > -all/some of the above > -other If no one had seen the card prior to it being mis-drawn (and the library is otherwise "random" to all concerned), then put it back and shuffle. If the card had already been known to some party, then find appropriate response (if the only person who had seen the card prior to the mis-draw was the player who drew it, then putting it back on top is perfect). Other players who hadn't seen the card would have no reason to see it just for it being mis-drawn. > I would think that an apology would be appropriate, in addition to > other solutions. Always apologize when you break a rule, sure.

On May 27, 3:57 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, cool. I've been looking to find a consistent approach to this. Players who see something they like might be inclined to put the card on top, where if it is something they don't like, they might want to shuffle it back. That both are remedies to the same problem, but with drastically different effects is problematic. In addition to player- side shenanigans, other people at the table who are good at reading faces could selectively ask the player to shuffle. Whether that is fair game or just further rule-bending/breaking, I'm not sure. From now on, if I see a card I shouldn't by improperly drawing, I will put the card back on top. Thanks again, Brandon

[ quoted text not captured ] Um. No. The general rule, as above, is to make a random draw random again by shuffling. You only "put it back on top and don't reshuffle" if someone (you or someone else) had already seen the card and knew it was on top of your deck (and doing so wouldn't give you an improper advantage). That's being consistent.

On May 27, 5:36 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Shuffling it is, I guess I mis-read you.

Without replying to any single specific person, we're close to 40 posts in, and we're mostly still all talking about the most obvious and boring of game mistakes (including ones that aren't even allowed by the rules). I think we can all agree that not knowing how to count or not remembering what's going on is probably bad for your game. Are there any errors people see that aren't so obvious? It would be much more productive to discuss mistakes that look like they might be good play. Needless to say, if other people want to keep mentioning stuff about forgetting to get free stuff or whatever, go ahead and do that. I'd personally prefer to steer the discussion towards more interesting tactical/strategic errors. Jesse

In article <e2c4e04f-eeb0-4427...@n19g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, jcrossn...@gmail.com wrote: > Without replying to any single specific person, we're close to 40 > posts in, and we're mostly still all talking about the most obvious > and boring of game mistakes (including ones that aren't even allowed > by the rules). I think we can all agree that not knowing how to count > or not remembering what's going on is probably bad for your game. Well, to be fair, Jeff didn't give much in the way of explaining what he was looking for and why--maybe he was collecting data for something, or wanted to write a helpful guide or something. But in any case, the question was vague, and the answers of procedural errors and "I can't count" errors struck me as perfectly reasonable. If not particularly interesting. > Needless to say, if other people want to keep mentioning stuff about > forgetting to get free stuff or whatever, go ahead and do that. I'd > personally prefer to steer the discussion towards more interesting > tactical/strategic errors. The problem with those is that they are just so very situational. And lots of stories of "Well, this one time my prey had X, Y, and Z, and I had A, B, and C, and my grandy prey had 1, 2, amd 3, and so then I played this vote, and my prey tried to block, but then I had some stealth, and then I split up the damage like this, but if I did it like that I would have won, but then my predator played Zim..." are going to result in either "Heh. That's funny." or "Uh, ok?" Jeff was looking for common errors. I can't think of errors that would be both: A) Common. and B) Interestingly tactical or strategic. So maybe if the question was clarified or adjusted, the discussion might go in a better direction. [ quoted text not captured ]

I see these in every game, often from myself as well as others. 1 Misreading another player 2 Misreading table dynamic Matt

[ quoted text not captured ] At one point my mantra was if you have a chance at a VP, get it, because folks can bounce back so easily. I.e., you have 1 untapped minion, your prey has all tapped out minions, and 1 pool. I usually go for that last pool of my prey, even if it leaves me in a tenuous position defensively. Is that an error? Of course, not going for it and your prey getting away can show that not going for it was an error. This can be very situational I know, but maybe some folks have a take on that idea of going for it when you might get the VP. best - chris

On May 29, 12:26 am, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I sometimes wanna take someone and shake them till their teeth rattle. This is usualy when a player is piloting a Wall deck, their prey is one pool, tapped out, and they don't bleed. When asked why, they invariably answer "I would rather block them." What, you playing a wall deck with no wake cards? Then next turn their prey uses their myriad BD/V to get back up to 6 pool, and end up sweeping cos the wall pilot is a monkey.