rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Week of Nightmares, Friday

30 messages from 17 participants · 07 October 2006 – 13 October 2006
original thread on Google Groups

The Lasombra

The Sect War event proved very popular, and two new factions were introduced to handle the overflow players (Black Hand and Kindred Most Wanted). Twenty six players played, with the finals taking the top 5 players regardless of starting team, as there were 7 teams. Two Imbued made the finals, and the three vampire decks made a pact to out them first. After an hour and forty minutes, an unblocked Conservative Agitation ousted them both, and then the vampire decks played until time without another oust. Many players commented on the enjoyment of the cooperative deck building, even going so far as to state that it was the most fun portion of the day. The Laibon team officially won the tournament, with Adam Hulse's Akunanse gaining 1.5 VPs in the final to allow his prior round 4 place seat to put him above the KMW Gangrel Antitribu of Hugh Angseesing and the Brujah antitribu of 3rd Edition piloted by Matt Strehlow. A large number of players played in the last chance qualifier, but that was in a completely separate room, so I will let LSJ or one of the finalists report on that event. Oscar managed to round up 20 players for a draft that started drafting around 7 pm as well. That was still going on when I left for the night. See you Saturday for day 1 of the North American Continental Championship. http://www.TheLasombra.com/NAC2006/

XZealot

> See you Saturday for day 1 of the North American Continental > Championship. > > http://www.TheLasombra.com/NAC2006/ I am so going to be there in 10 hours. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

LSJ

Jay Kristoff won the last chance qualifier. I'll let him post his winning deck as a follow up when he gets a chance. Other finalists: Alex Harmon, Andreas Nusser, Steve Boyd-Bucy, and David Zopf. We had 43 players for the qualifier, 17 of which were not already qualified. The new five qualifiers are: Andreas Nusser Steve Boyd-Bucy David Zopf Magnus Hultin Dave Feldman

Frederick Scott

"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ku8ei2hfpmok15mag...@4ax.com... > Two Imbued made the finals, and the three vampire decks made a > pact to out them first. Gosh.

librarian

[ quoted text not captured ] I like seeing Andreas coming all the way from Europe without even qualifying to try to play. Gutsy. Steve Bucy only came from California... best - chris

John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Worth noting that that appeared to be the only final table Imbued decks made all week - none of them made the finals of the LCQ or either day of the NAC, nor (so people were saying) any of the other constructed events during the Week of Nightmares. -John Flournoy

Rehlow

The Lasombra wrote: > The Sect War event proved very popular, and two new factions were > introduced to handle the overflow players (Black Hand and Kindred Most > Wanted). Twenty six players played, with the finals taking the top 5 > players regardless of starting team, as there were 7 teams. Two > Imbued made the finals, and the three vampire decks made a pact to out > them first. After an hour and forty minutes, an unblocked > Conservative Agitation ousted them both, and then the vampire decks > played until time without another oust. Many players commented on the > enjoyment of the cooperative deck building, even going so far as to > state that it was the most fun portion of the day. The Laibon team > officially won the tournament, with Adam Hulse's Akunanse gaining 1.5 > VPs in the final to allow his prior round 4 place seat to put him > above the KMW Gangrel Antitribu of Hugh Angseesing and the Brujah > antitribu of 3rd Edition piloted by Matt Strehlow. > The seating was Josh Duffin (Imbued), me, Hugh, Alex Ek (Imbued), Adam. Josh was top seed and I was second going into the finals. If the other vampire playing players were planning a let's take out the Imbued first and then fight it out ourselves, I was planning a stab in the back right before the Imbued ousting (working the same sort of lines as let's all kill Nergal, oops, I killed my prey before Nergal died). Instead the other vampire playing players wanted to do a let's split the prize box evenly amongst us no matter how it turns out (well, provided the Imbued didn't win). An early Creepshow Casino helped me get some additional stealth to get past the Imbued's easy +1 intercept, not so easy to get more. Also, no one expects Alacrity (especially from the 3 cap). I had lots of fun calling KRCs for 2 pts to my grand prey and 2 pts to my predator. A Rein's of Power really helped us win, adding back a much needed 6 pool to all the vampire player's reserves and even hit the Imbued players for 1 damage each. Like The Lasombra said above, I was able to take out both Imbued players in the same action with a Con Ag, since they were at 2 and 3 pool, unfortunately I had Hugh as my prey, so I got 0 vps for that. All in all the format was lots of fun, playing for my 3rd Edition team each round (you didn't have to sit at a table with your own team) and then playing for the vampire team in the finals. I hope to play this format sometime again in the future, but the large number of players required to build several teams (and then not sit with your team at a table) and the unsanctioned aspect of it make me think I might be waiting awhile for the chance. Later, ~Rehlow

witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Indeed. I think the format was probably biased toward the imbued from the beginning, in spite of not having starters. In two boxes of NoR, we had roughly 3.5 of each rare, 10 of each imbued, and 20 of each common. The NoR distribution was much smoother than several other sets, and we got 4 Churches, 4 Champions, 4 Crusader Swords, and 4 Living Wood Staff. We seriously considered putting Break The Code, Edge Explosion, and Recalled to the Founder into one of the decks. I'm pretty sure Duffin and Alex had "less-than-60-cards" because of the conviction effect. I was the only player to go up to 90 (and it was a mistake). The rules cards were really good - "Dude! You just got outpressed by Boxed In!" We had an Info Highway and a Sudden Reversal each, 3 Barrens between us, and 3 Elder Libraries as well. We also got a total of 8 Fake Outs, which meant I didn't have to hog them for my Cleave deck. There were also a couple of magnums. 5+ Angels of Berlin apiece meant sufficient out-of-turn equipping. Even Dodge was key. Cleaving Count Germaine for 8 with a Living Wood Staff and pressing when he soaked was fun. Witness1 -believe the lie

Jozxyqk

John Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] John Bell's Imbued deck made the finals of Shadow Twin.

Bram Vink

witness1 schreef: [ quoted text not captured ] I do not.

Matthew T. Morgan

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, Jozxyqk wrote: >> Worth noting that that appeared to be the only final table Imbued decks >> made all week - none of them made the finals of the LCQ or either day >> of the NAC, nor (so people were saying) any of the other constructed >> events during the Week of Nightmares. > > John Bell's Imbued deck made the finals of Shadow Twin. I also made one of the finals with one of my Imbued decks, but declined to play in it because of a draft that was about to begin. In retrospect, I probably should've just played that final, as I don't have an Imbued tournament win under my belt yet. Ah well. Brian Moritz won that one with his Gehenna-heavy Stanislava/Beckett deck, so it may not have been a good table for Imbued. Break the Code was played in almost every one of my games in both days of the championship, but no Imbued decks were played at those tables. I personally haven't yet found it necessary to worry about Imbued too much when building decks. However, part of that is that I am probably one of the most likely players to play Imbued, so if I'm not playing them, the odds of running across them are that much less. Matt Morgan

atomweaver

"librarian" <ino...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in news:1160238132.312736.35190 @k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: [ quoted text not captured ] Is Malk94 ever "gutsy" to play..? ;-) DaveZ Atom Weaver yeah, I was the "speed bump" to Andreas' Malk94 deck in the finals :P

witness1

Bram Vink wrote: > witness1 schreef: > > Cleaving Count Germaine for 8 with a Living Wood Staff and pressing > > when he soaked was fun. > > > > Witness1 > > -believe the lie > > I do not. I faced the advanced Germaine, not the basic. The play was legal. Witness1 -believe the lie.

Jay Kristoff

"LSJ" wrote: > Jay Kristoff won the last chance qualifier. I'll let him post his > winning deck as a follow up when he gets a chance. NAC Last Chance Qualifier Atlanta, Georgia USA 10/6/2006 43 players Beef Chunks 'n' Gravy designed and played by Jay Kristoff 3x Erinyi 3x Fidus, The Shrunken Beast 3x Obsidian 2x Ferox, The Rock Lord 1x Ferox, The Rock Lord (advanced) 5x Blood Doll 1x Club Zombie 1x Direct Intervention 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1x Fame 1x Mob Connections 1x Powerbase: Montreal 1x The Rack 1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch 1x WMRH, Talk Radio 1x Aranthebes, the Immortal 3x Armor of Terra 4x Hatchling 1x Rampage 2x Sanguine Instruction 1x .44 Magnum 1x Hawg 2x IR Goggles 1x Palatial Estate 1x Mr. Winthrop 3x Razor Bat 2x Stone Dog 1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) 2x Skin of the Chameleon 8x Crawling Chamber 8x Pounce 3x Raking Talons 4x Rockheart 4x Stonestrength 1x Swoop 4x Taste of Vitae 14x Forced Awakening 2x Patrol 2x Scry the Hearthstone 1x Dragonbound Thanks to the other finalists, Alex Harmon, Andreas Nusser, Steve Boyd-Bucy, and David Zopf, who made it such a fun and thought-proking game. Jay Kristoff

Salem

Jay Kristoff wrote: > "LSJ" wrote: > >> Jay Kristoff won the last chance qualifier. I'll let him post his >> winning deck as a follow up when he gets a chance. > > NAC Last Chance Qualifier > Atlanta, Georgia USA > 10/6/2006 > 43 players > > Beef Chunks 'n' Gravy > designed and played by Jay Kristoff > > 3x Erinyi > 3x Fidus, The Shrunken Beast > 3x Obsidian > 2x Ferox, The Rock Lord > 1x Ferox, The Rock Lord (advanced) you won with a pure gargoyle deck? I love you. Marry me? -- salem http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/ (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

XZealot

Jay Kristoff wrote: > "LSJ" wrote: > > > Jay Kristoff won the last chance qualifier. I'll let him post his > > winning deck as a follow up when he gets a chance. > > NAC Last Chance Qualifier > Atlanta, Georgia USA > 10/6/2006 > 43 players > > Beef Chunks 'n' Gravy > designed and played by Jay Kristoff You and your deck name rock! [ quoted text not captured ]

tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com

Jay Kristoff wrote: > "LSJ" wrote: > > > Jay Kristoff won the last chance qualifier. I'll let him post his > > winning deck as a follow up when he gets a chance. > > NAC Last Chance Qualifier > Atlanta, Georgia USA > 10/6/2006 > 43 players > > Beef Chunks 'n' Gravy > designed and played by Jay Kristoff Congrats on this win, Jay! Could you describe how your tables went and how you and your deck dealt with them? Tobias

Joshua Duffin

"John Flournoy" <carn...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1160423791.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I didn't play Imbued in any of the constructed events before NAC Day 2. Because they're too good. That was sort of validated in my Day 2 experience, in that I was not ousted in rounds 1 or 2 (playing a fairly standard Defense/Judgement master-heavy deck), but got only 0.5 VPs each of those rounds; in round 3 I was ousted (with 2-3 of the other 4 players working on me) but only about 5 minutes before time was called. My presence in each game seemed to cause great concern that I would become unstoppable if I were allowed to build up for longer than, say, three turns. Luckily I was able to talk people out of giving away my VP to their prey/new predator/etc in two of the three rounds, but unluckily I was not able to oust anyone before time while we all did that much talking (and thinking). On a side note, the Sect War finals that became "3 vamps vs 2 imbued" was pretty fun and seemed reasonably fair - since it was already a kind of team event, playing the finals as teams was an interesting change from "normal" tournament finals. Unfortunately both of us imbued got off to kind of a slow start and couldn't handle being outnumbered. Probably we should have sat back-to-back but didn't take into account (before choosing seating) just how much it was going to become a vampires-vs-imbued affair. Josh mortality

Robert Goudie

Joshua Duffin wrote: > "John Flournoy" <carn...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1160423791.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > > > Frederick Scott wrote: > >> "The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:ku8ei2hfpmok15mag...@4ax.com... > >> > Two Imbued made the finals, and the three vampire decks made a > >> > pact to out them first. > >> > >> Gosh. > > > > Worth noting that that appeared to be the only final table Imbued decks > > made all week - none of them made the finals of the LCQ or either day > > of the NAC, nor (so people were saying) any of the other constructed > > events during the Week of Nightmares. > > I didn't play Imbued in any of the constructed events before NAC Day 2. > Because they're too good. Nearly every deck I saw on NAC Day 1 had some sort of anti-imbued tech/contingency plan. At least two tables had Breaking the Code appear immediately. Imbued were certainly discussed a lot in preparation for Day 1. However, I didn't see them having much success against the concerted efforts of the rest of the table. -Robert

witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] This is interesting, as throughout the tournament I never thought that the right answer for any table was to gang up on me, and for the most part they didn't. Day 1, game 1, I got my first VP because my grandprey KSed backwards after being bled intensely by my prey, and worked that strong position into a 4-VP game win. Game 2 I sat in front of weenie presence, who sat in front of Ravnos Are Kholo, who sat in front of !Malk stealth bleed. My Tzimisce prey had no worries from me, though had I played better I could have held on for a half a VP. Yay. Game 3 I got hit cross-table for something like 6 KRC points from my grandpredator. It was a stupid move on his part and we both got ousted quickly. Yay. Day 2, game 1 I sat behind Tupdog-Nephandus, who killed and pillow-faced two of my imbued, something like a net 10-pool investment. Luckily, Jennie was the survivor and managed to get 2 Flak Jackets, a Leather Jacket, Hide and Vigilance, so she never got destroyed. I was also able to credibly threaten a self-oust if my last minion was removed (which would have put Giovanni powerbleed behind the Tupdogs, which he feared more than my Laptop). I nearly got a whole VP, but I wouldn't have gone any farther. Game 2, my potence-combat predator could have crushed me had he acted about 3 turns sooner, and I knew it. He didn't believe it, though, and decided to backoust Robyn instead. I used the Darby Dance (Laptop + Leather Jacket + Vigilance) to oust my prey and stay untapped (out of Harass range), but only got that VP because my predator and grandprey killed her minions instead of mine. Once that was done, they dealt me off the table, and 3 anarch revolts (plus bleeds of one) killed me. Game 3, my predator was Tzimisce block-combat. My prey ended up with my first Magnum on Maris Streck (I decided letting him have it was better than blocking him and letting my predator have it). My prey was a Huitzipochtli + Maris + IC deck, and he made a 3-2 deal with his grandprey fairly early. The only reason I had a chance at a VP is that I was able to credibly threaten an out-of-turn self-oust (which would have screwed up the deal, by forcing a VP and 6 pool on my predator). Had I played better I would have ended up with an actual VP (maybe 2, depending on time). Of course, I've already confessed that the Heart of Nizcehtus was the only thing holding my crappy deck together, so maybe I'm the blind man here. Witness1 -believe the lie.

Jay Kristoff

Tobias wrote: > Congrats on this win, Jay! Thank you. > Could you describe how your tables went and how you and your deck dealt > with them? Round 1 Me (Gargoyles) Bill Troxel (Nos breed and vote) Connor Bell (Giovanni and Le Dinh Tho) Grim (Muaziz with Ferox) Johannas Walch (Krassamir with Euro-Brujah) Connor opens with Le and pops cards from Grim's hand. Bill is making Embraces and 3rd Trads. and has vote control. Grim is watching his hand, then his pool get violated. Johannes shows some combat, but is aslo quick to pull the Legendary Vampire Krassamir out of combat with my Gargoyles. Johannes has Carver's in play. I get Stone Dog, Heidelburg Castle, and Dragonbound. Bill ousts Conner, and nearly gets Grim. My two S.D. rushes a turn against Bill's weenies, coupled with Carver's wreck Bill. Johannes makes 25-30 blood from Carver's. I eventually oust Bill. I tell Grim that we should team up to oust Johannes, then fight for the game win. Grim says no. The three of us play it straight for a while. I am getting the short end of the stick as Grim's bleeds get bounced into me, and one of my Hatchlings is stuck in torpor from Carver's. Johannes eventually ousts me. I tell Grim he played poorly. (using other language) With very little time left, Grim torps out Johannes and earns the Game Win. I take back every thing I said to him. Grim: 2 VPs, Bill: 1 VP, Jay: 1 VP, Johannes 1 VP Round 2 Me (Gargoyles) Mindy Bell (Stanislava and other dom/PRO folks) Unhappy guy (wennie pre) Nat Hammond (Gangrel with Torvus Bloodbeard) John Bell (Guruhi swam with embrace and many "..are the Land") Sorry for not knowing the unhappy guy's name. He was unhappy because John was coaching Mindy throughout the game. I encouraged the unhappy guy to get used to it. He did not. Nat wasn't able to go forward much all game as his predator(s) kept him busy. John cranks out Gurihi embraces before I have the int. to block them. Mindy can have her way with the unhappy guy, and there's not much I can do about it. I decide that I also need to be John's predator (as well as prey) because Nat is busy with weenie pre. I play Dragonbound and try to torp as many of the Guhuri as possible. Mindy ousts the unhappy guy. John's final push into me leaves me with one pool before he is ousted by my Dragonbound. I recover pool with Blood Dolls, the Rack, and Club Zombie. Mindy struggles to do much to Nat. I get a Stone Dog and go to work on Mindy's vamps. I play Jack and oust Mindy and Nat in order. Jay: 3 VPs, Mindy: 1VP, Nat: 1 VP Round 3 Me (Gargoyles) David Tatu (Potence Settites with Stunt Cycle) Christian Chénard (Kyasid toolbox) Ben Swainbank (Enkidu) Large Michigan guy (Lasombra bleed/vote) Christian's deck had more combat in it than one would expect. David got beat up by both Christian and me. Enkidu rushed his predator and prey effectively. I bled into David as my Lasombra predator was busy getting beat up. Ben doesn't oust the Lasombra (possibly intentionally to put pressure on me) Christian is beat up, and asks me why he should stay around if only to die to me after I oust David. I'm affraid of Ben's Enkidu combat. Christain wants a deal where he gets two VPs (Ben and the Large Michigan guy), and I get three (David, Christain, and last player standing). I agree to the deal because Christian's stealthy bleeds are the best way I know of to get Enkidu off the table. I oust David. Christian and I team up to mess with Ben (I take Powerbase: Montreal from Ben, I rescue Christian's vamp, etc.) The Lasombra guy gets a few votes and bleeds through to me, but I have a ton of pool. Time gets tight. I tell Christian I need the game win, and may have to oust him if we run get too close to the time out. (Christian is at close to no pool). With very little time left, Christian ousts Ben and the Large Michigan guy one after the other. I then tell Christian that I am ready to accept his concession. He concedes. Jay: 3 VPs Christian: 2 VPSs Final Round I'm a little foggy on this, but I think I was the second seed going in. I knew nothing of the decks of the other players. I sat so that I was preying on Alex Harmon with David Zopf as my predator, with Andreas Nusser across the table from me. (I think) Steve Boyd-Bucy then sat as my prey. The table looked like this: Me (Gargoyles) Steve Boyd-Bucy (Kindred Spirits stealth bleed) Alex Harmon (FoS with Temptation) Andreas Nusser (OBF/DOM stealth bleed) David Zopf (Lasombra with OBF) David had been Andreas' prey in an earlier round, so he knew what was coming. David tried to make pool with Creation Rites/Con. Boon. He also bounced a bleed or two, but wasn't able to keep up with the constant bleed pressure from Andreas. David chose not to bleed me or vote pool damage to me so as to not pave the way for Andreas (thanks again David). Alex had his hands full as Steve pounded into him with K.S. bleeds. I did nothing other than work a Blood Doll and make a Hatchling, and get a Razor Bat. Alex put Temptation on two of Steve's vamps and eventually two of Andreas' vamps. I torped one of Andreas' vamps after it was bounced to me. Andreas ousted David. Andreas then seemed to be low on stealth and having trouble getting past my vamp with a Razor Bat. When Alex was able to borrow the first of Steve's vamps with Temptation, he sent it on the D action to burn my Mob Connections (after removing all but one of its blood with his Heidelburg Castle. I was happy to send Steve's vamp to torpor afer I blocked that action. I played Dragonbound. A turn or two later, thanks to Free States Rant and Temptation, Alex and I again teamed up to torp another one of Steve's vamps and two of Andreas'. Alex helps me oust Steve with a KRC with the idea that I don't mess with him until after he ousts Andreas. That was fine with me. In our heads-up match, I contest Heidelburg Castle, and get a Stone Dog to rush his vamps. Alex tempts both of my Hatchlings and uses them skillfully to rescue his vamps and bleed me. Even so, I had too much for Alex to handle. Jay: 3VPs, Alex: 1 VP, Andreas: 1 VP Thanks for your interest in the deck and my games. Jay Kristoff

Jay Kristoff

Tobias wrote: > Congrats on this win, Jay! Thank you. > Could you describe how your tables went and how you and your deck dealt > with them? Round 1 [ quoted text not captured ]

tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com

Jay Kristoff wrote a fine report of how his games went: > Thanks for your interest in the deck and my games. You're welcome - it's an interesting story! I was interested because: a) it's a gargoyle deck b) it didn't seem to have a boatload of intercept (or bounce) c) it doesn't seem to pack a lot of 'payload' - dragonbound/SJ, correct? Could you say how much the metagame/your tables was/were (un)like you expected it to be? Thanks Tobias

Jay Kristoff

Tobias wrote: > Jay Kristoff wrote a fine report of how his games went: > > > Thanks for your interest in the deck and my games. > > You're welcome - it's an interesting story! I'm happy to entertain. > I was interested because: a) it's a gargoyle deck b) it didn't seem to > have a boatload of intercept (or bounce) c) it doesn't seem to pack a > lot of 'payload' - dragonbound/SJ, correct? No, there's no "payload" here. Yes, Smiling Jack, Dragonbound, and Fame tend to do the most pool damage. Also, I send boring bleeds of one once my prey can't handle them. > Could you say how much the metagame/your tables was/were (un)like you > expected it to be? I didn't have many metagame expectations going into this event. In reviewing my report, I see that I got some very fortunate table placements (especially in the final). I was also fortunate that many of the best players skipped this tournament in order to play in the Sect Wars event. Some reasons that pushed me to play this deck: - I find it very fun to play - I was already qualified for the NAC - I love putting strange decks on the TWDA. - I came close to winning with this deck at Origins, and I felt it deserved another chance. - The deck fits right in to my prefered style of play. - I knew the deck would give me the tools needed to win games. - the deck is an incarnation of the ideas I put forth in the article I wrote for the V:TES Player's Guide. Jay Kristoff

tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com

Jay Kristoff wrote: > No, there's no "payload" here. Yes, Smiling Jack, Dragonbound, and > Fame tend to do the most pool damage. Also, I send boring bleeds of > one once my prey can't handle them. Check. At least I didn't miss any hidden tricks. > I didn't have many metagame expectations going into this event. In > reviewing > my report, I see that I got some very fortunate table placements (especially > in > the final). I was also fortunate that many of the best players skipped this > tournament > in order to play in the Sect Wars event. I think table placements were quite good for you, but it's what you make out of that situation that seperates the big boys from the smaller boys (M/F) > Some reasons that pushed me to play this deck: > - I find it very fun to play > - I was already qualified for the NAC > - I love putting strange decks on the TWDA. > - I came close to winning with this deck at Origins, > and I felt it deserved another chance. > - The deck fits right in to my prefered style of play. > - I knew the deck would give me the tools needed to win games. > - the deck is an incarnation of the ideas I put forth in the article > I wrote for the V:TES Player's Guide. I thought I recognized some of those motives, yes, especially the last one. Many of them I share. Interesting. Tobias

Joshua Duffin

"Robert Goudie" <rob...@vtesinla.org> wrote in message news:1160601313....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] True. Against the rest of the table, they have little chance (as with any deck). Of course, expecting the table to gang up against a particular deck-type is one of the classic signs of a "broken" or "unbalanced" archetype (since if a deck is balanced, it shouldn't require an entire table to ally against it). I, too, saw Break the Code played a bunch (even when no one on the table was playing Imbued), but I don't think it's all that *effective* a piece of anti-imbued technology. Granted, in the one game where it was played while I *was* playing Imbued, I did get ousted, and the Break the Code did make at least some contribution to that since (once it was played, relatively late in the game) it was canceling out my Unmasking intercept which I needed pretty often against my !Malk stealth-bleed predator. But I think the Break the Code by itself would still not have come close to getting me killed, if I hadn't also been receiving stealthy bounced bleeds from cross-table, if my predator had had a normal amount of pressure from her own predator (instead of zero pressure), or, indeed, if I had not played Fear of Mekhet on my prey's Arika (costing me 2 pool) on my last turn before being ousted (I played it in the expectation that I could then probably oust my prey on my own next turn). As long as players playing vampire-based decks can count on all the other vampire-based-deck players at the table to work together to get Imbued decks off the table, I think that's all the anti-imbued tech that people really need. But can we count on that behavior to last forever? And is it desirable as a method of "balancing" the imbued? Josh pretty definitely won't be playing imbued at the e.c.

witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] If they have to ally against you to oust you, they shouldn't be allying together to give someone else a VP. If they have to ally against you to prevent you from winning, you're right about being unbalanced. > I, too, saw Break the Code played a bunch (even when no one on the table was > playing Imbued), but I don't think it's all that *effective* a piece of > anti-imbued technology. Break the Code is shit. It should require another Gehenna event in play. As it stands, it's about the biggest effect-for-cost of any hoser in the game (depending on whether you consider PTO a hoser). It costs nothing to play. It doesn't even have a DNR clause. So now there's an unburnable Haven Uncovered on all my minions. Great. > Granted, in the one game where it was played while > I *was* playing Imbued, I did get ousted, and the Break the Code did make at > least some contribution to that since (once it was played, relatively late > in the game) it was canceling out my Unmasking intercept which I needed > pretty often against my !Malk stealth-bleed predator. But I think the Break > the Code by itself would still not have come close to getting me killed, if > I hadn't also been receiving stealthy bounced bleeds from cross-table, if my > predator had had a normal amount of pressure from her own predator (instead > of zero pressure), or, indeed, if I had not played Fear of Mekhet on my > prey's Arika (costing me 2 pool) on my last turn before being ousted (I > played it in the expectation that I could then probably oust my prey on my > own next turn). So, Break the Code didn't oust you, but how close did you come to winning the game? It sounds like you almost made a VP. Yay. So, if you can count on The Unmasking coming out, then Break the Code only puts you back to neutral on intercept. It's only a free, no-stealth, haven uncovered that lasts until the Break the Code player is ousted. But if there's no Unmasking in play, then you have to spend your precious convictions just to block 0-stealth actions (like bleeds). And you can't count on being able to take that many bleeds. Combine that with the Haven effect and your important minion (Jennie) won't be long for the world unless her Haven is Secured. However, if it required a Gehenna event in play, I'd at least have the strategic option of not playing the Unmasking to avoid the Haven effect. It costs me the Edge Explosion, which could be problematic, but there are times when it's definitely worth it. > As long as players playing vampire-based decks can count on all the other > vampire-based-deck players at the table to work together to get Imbued decks > off the table, I think that's all the anti-imbued tech that people really > need. But can we count on that behavior to last forever? And is it > desirable as a method of "balancing" the imbued? Maybe it's just that my playgroup is heavily into Animalism, but they don't typically need that much ganging up to keep me from getting VPs. Ousting me is hard for a lot of deck types, but ousting me crosstable is rarely playing to win. Ousting me backwards is occasionally, but not typically, playing to win. At the NAC, it never took more than 2 players working together to oust me (that only happened in one game). In the games where I was not ousted, my predator was hampered either by an aggressively strong predator of his own, or killed crosstable by Tupdogs. Without any table ganging up on me, nor Break the Code played at any table, I was able to earn 1 GW and 6 VPs over the both days. I should of course consider that I'm not as good a player as you are, and that my deck was crappy, but I just don't see the imbalance. > Josh > > pretty definitely won't be playing imbued at the e.c. Witness1 -hands for one is a losing game

witness1

Joshua Duffin wrote: > I, too, saw Break the Code played a bunch (even when no one on the table was > playing Imbued), but I don't think it's all that *effective* a piece of > anti-imbued technology. About Break the Code specifically, here's some thoughts: any deck with Anthelios should probably add Break the Code and Emergency Preparations. Anti-imbued tech, anti-Gehenna tech, untap-your-fatty tech, and if all else fails, pitch-for-a-different-master with Anthelios tech. Similarly, a Mother of Horrors/War Ghoul deck with the Unmasking can add a similar package. It doesn't have to be Break the Code, of course. It could be any other Gehenna event that suits you. But since BtC is so cheap and easy, and nobody likes the imbued anyway, it's probably a good choice. Witness1 -believe the lie

Matthew T. Morgan

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006, witness1 wrote: > Joshua Duffin wrote: >> I, too, saw Break the Code played a bunch (even when no one on the table was >> playing Imbued), but I don't think it's all that *effective* a piece of >> anti-imbued technology. > > About Break the Code specifically, here's some thoughts: any deck with > Anthelios should probably add Break the Code and Emergency > Preparations. Anti-imbued tech, anti-Gehenna tech, untap-your-fatty > tech, and if all else fails, pitch-for-a-different-master with > Anthelios tech. Anti-Imbued tech? That's funny. Why should I need anti-Imbued tech when someone cross-table will just oust the Imbued while I have a little nap? There's no card with an effect as powerful as a player who has lost sight of the goal of the game. Matt Morgan

witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Or an entire herd of them. Witness1 -believe the lie