Question about Elixir of Distillation

Let's suppose I receive two Elixir of Distillation, resulting in a 2- capacity loss. Then, on my master phase, I decide to tap my vampire to remove. Do I remove both of them or just one? Elixir of Distillation Ranged strike: burn 1 blood from the opposing vampire and reduce his or her capacity by 1 (capacity cannot be reduced below 1). That reduction lasts until that vampire's controller uses a master phase action to tap that vampire. Burn this weapon after use.

[ quoted text not captured ] You only remove one.

[ quoted text not captured ] Unless of course you have 2 master phase actions, in which case you can remove me than one.

> > Unless of course you have 2 master phase actions, in which case you > can remove me than one. Can you tap the vampire if it is already tapped? Or are you speaking about 2 different vampires?

[ quoted text not captured ] You can tap an already tapped vampire. Grand ball/brujah debate would be fairly useless otherwise.

On Aug 28, 12:34 am, nac.snor...@gmail.com wrote: > Let's suppose I receive two Elixir of Distillation, resulting in a 2- > capacity loss. Then, on my master phase, I decide to tap my vampire to > remove. > > Do I remove both of them or just one? > Here's a second question about Elixir of Distillation - why is it so crappy? Or, put a different way, is it really as bad as I think it is, or is it even worse? It might have been justified in being printed if it untapped the equipping vampire at the end of the turn, but even then it's not as good as a Baseball Bat or Leather Jacket...

[ quoted text not captured ] Conceal out a bunch of them and use Lightning Reflexes to throw them all at one opposing vamp. Steal that vamp with a single corruption counter. 90% crappy, 10% SOLID GOLD. -witness1

In message <844565e8-6e86-4329...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroup s.com>, PaulW...@gmail.com writes: >On Aug 28, 9:58 am, coincoinmas...@hotmail.com wrote: >> > Unless of course you have 2 master phase actions, in which case you >> > can remove me than one. >> >> Can you tap the vampire if it is already tapped? Or are you speaking >> about 2 different vampires? > >You can tap an already tapped vampire. ... if it's an effect. That is, if you're just told to tap a minion and it's already tapped, that's fine, no consequences. If it's a cost, "Tap another ready minion to get +1 strength", the chosen minion has to be untapped to meet the "Tap to..." cost. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

In message <9ad70483-5879-43d9...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroup s.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >Here's a second question about Elixir of Distillation - why is it so >crappy? Or, put a different way, is it really as bad as I think it >is, or is it even worse? It might have been justified in being >printed if it untapped the equipping vampire at the end of the turn, >but even then it's not as good as a Baseball Bat or Leather Jacket... In theory, neither Baseball Bat or Leather Jacket make it easier to Corrupt a minion, play From a Sinking Ship or Hostile Takeover, and so on. (The words "In theory" were key in that sentence.) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Best deck ever! ;) There aren't any Settites with superior celerity, but hey, Sisocharis only needs one skill card... and more blood. Intisar or Saqqaf, or a few others, could do it with a skill card as well. Actually, Xendil Charmer could do it with Revelation of Ecstasy... So there you go, any Settite with superior celerity (or a vamp with SER/CEL) can steal a younger vampire (maybe equal size) by getting into combat, spending X blood, X Concealed Weapons, X Elixers, 1 Lightning Reflexes, stay at close range and land X non-hand strikes (after the first one, shouldn't be a problem), survive combat, then untap (difficult if you got into combat by being blocked - easier if you snake drive, which would require a successful enter combat action) and get a 1 stealth Corruption action through. On top of that, the vampire comes to you with capacity 1 and most likely no blood (might have 1), and you have to use a master phase and tap him next turn to get rid of the elixers. A second vampire could do the corruption... I guess I've seen Norm post crazier decks... =)

[ quoted text not captured ] You could do a revelation of wrath after the third round of combat? ;)

In message <3d5c30b7-b1c9-442d...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >There aren't any Settites with superior celerity, Pentweret. >but hey, Sisocharis >only needs one skill card... and more blood. Intisar or Saqqaf, or a >few others, could do it with a skill card as well. Actually, Xendil >Charmer could do it with Revelation of Ecstasy... Drum of Xipe Totec, too. If you have a bunch of equipment to play with, you could use Magic of the Smith too, as there's a clutch of Setites with Tha. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I was planning about using them with Crocodile Tongue, Loose Cannon and Power of One, with Helena ADV

On Aug 28, 3:26 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <3d5c30b7-b1c9-442d-a576-88d7247fc...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups > .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > > >There aren't any Settites with superior celerity, > > Pentweret. ... has an ability that's useful with Elixirs, but still doesn't have superior celerity. Seterpenre is the Setite with superior celerity, and superior fortitude as well, if you want (damage protection for when you're laying out Elixirs, Freak Drive, Forced March, etc). Brent

[ quoted text not captured ] I like the idea but would rather go with PRO for the Venenation and Form of Mist combo plus Nadima is a bad ass , just threw this together. Deck Name: Form of Temptation Created by: Matt Pullen Description: Crypt [12 vampires, average capacity: 7.41667] 3x Nehsi OBF PRE PRO SER aus for 10 Follower of Set:2 2 votes 1x Amisa OBF SER pre pro 8 Follower of Set:2 2 votes 3x Nadima FOR PRO SER ani aus 8 Gangrel:3 1x Aisha PRE ani aus ser 6 Follower of Set:2 1x Allonzo Montoya OBF SER ani aus 6 Abomination:3 2x Mirembe Kabbada PRO SER ani 5 Gangrel:2 1x Sir Marriot D'Urban PRE aus obf ser 5 Follower of Set:2 Library [90 cards] Master [12] 5x Blood Doll 1x Cave of Apples 1x Channel 10 1x From a Sinking Ship 2x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1x KRCG News Radio 1x WMRH Talk Radio Action [13] 1x Form of Corruption 8x Revelation of Ecstasy 4x Temptation Action Modifier [29] 4x Cloak the Gathering 2x Earth Control 7x Freak Drive 2x Lost in Crowds 6x Revelation of Desire 2x Veil the Legions 6x Venenation Action Modifier/Combat [2] 2x Form of the Serpent Equipment [11] 10x Elixir of Distillation 1x Sport Bike Reaction [6] 4x On the Qui Vive 2x Wake with Evening's Freshness Retainer [1] 1x Mr. Winthrop Combat [16] 8x Concealed Weapon 8x Form of Mist Crafted with: Anarch Revolt Deck Builder [Thu Aug 28 21:59:42 2008]

In message <253ecaf6-2372-4ecf...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups .com>, bwross <bwr...@mail.com> writes: >On Aug 28, 3:26 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> In message <3d5c30b7-b1c9-442d-a576-88d7247fc...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups >> .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >> >There aren't any Settites with superior celerity, >> >> Pentweret. > >... has an ability that's useful with Elixirs, but still doesn't have >superior celerity. > >Seterpenre is the Setite with superior celerity, and superior >fortitude as well, Sorry, my mistake. I did, in fact, mean Seterpenre and his disciplines of doom, and can't imagine what brain fart went in between me checking ARDB and me typing in a post. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Aug 28, 9:08 pm, Pullen <mattp3...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I like the idea but would rather go with PRO for the Venenation and > Form of Mist combo plus Nadima is a bad ass , just threw this > together. > > Deck Name: Form of Temptation > Created by: Matt Pullen > Description: > First piece of advice - remove all of the Elixirs for something useful. Perhaps more Venenation and Mask of 1000 Faces. I'd much rather do the corrupting outside of combat. Or if you're going to risk getting pounded in combat by playing a close-range equipment strike, at least play with Revelation of Wrath. Hell, considering that the Elixirs require either an action or a Concealed Weapon, just replace all 18 of those with Corruption or Revelation of Ecstasy. In reality, I would probably go with some sort of combat defense instead of some of those cards. As it is, your deck has no way of getting in combat (and very little reason to want to!) and nothing worth blocking except the Revelations of Ecstasy, which are at stealth - if blocked it will let you play Concealed Weapon and Elixir of Distillation to do the work that the Revelation of Ecstasy would have done by itself if you had just stealthed by. If you have a Venenation handy, then you can make the equivalent of 2 corruption counters with 4 cards, and now they get to pound the tar out of you. Unless they have S:CE in which case you don't get to Elixir them at all.

In article <89baa153-b708-44c8...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > First piece of advice - remove all of the Elixirs for something > useful. While completely reasonable advice in a general sense, wasn't the whole point of this thread "How do I possible do something vaguely useful with Elixir of Distillation?" Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff

[ quoted text not captured ] > Crafted with: Anarch Revolt Deck Builder [Thu Aug 28 21:59:42 2008]- Zitierten Text ausblenden - > > - Zitierten Text anzeigen - Just so you won't stumble upon this...you did read the "requires an anarch" part on the Elixir. So one of your main vamps can't even use it unless you'll put in some extra anarch tech. But your deck looks like it hasn't thought about going anarch as all...

On Aug 29, 9:53 am, Chris Berger wrote: > First piece of advice - remove all of the Elixirs for something > useful. Perhaps more Venenation and Mask of 1000 Faces. I'd much > rather do the corrupting outside of combat. Or if you're going to > risk getting pounded in combat by playing a close-range equipment > strike, at least play with Revelation of Wrath. Peter already addressed the first part, so I'm just adding that the Elixir's strike is actually ranged (card text). It's kind of moot in this context, because I don't remember any maneuvers in Pullen's deck, and I'm not saying either that giving you a ranged strike makes the Elixir ultra-good. But hey, it's something. Maybe I'll try an overpowered long range Elixir of Distillation deck. I'm thinking Jackie Therman! Abraço, Luiz Mello

On Aug 29, 8:11 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article > <89baa153-b708-44c8-8f12-0124dfc42...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > > > First piece of advice - remove all of the Elixirs for something > > useful. > > While completely reasonable advice in a general sense, wasn't the whole > point of this thread "How do I possible do something vaguely useful with > Elixir of Distillation?" > And the point of me replying to this thread is you can't! ;) Sure, you could use Tortured Confession to look at your opponents hand, and that's a vaguely useful thing to do, but that doesn't mean the card should ever go in a constructed deck. Ever. Same with Elixir. It's just terrible. What's the point except taking up room in my card boxes? At least it could have untapped the equipping vampire at the end of the turn. Or SOMETHING.

Or how about... Kiradin Clan: Ravnos Group: 4 Capacity: 8 Discipline: ani pot CHI DEM FOR Independent: Once each round, Kiradin may burn a blood to get an additional strike. She goes anarch, freak drive to become a baron, freak drive to rush Arika, whoever, trap and conceal a bunch of elixers and dodge with Treasured Samadji/ Occlusion, Mirror Image to S:CE, freak drive to Chameleon your target. It's that easy. ;P Really though, there are a few ways it could come in handy. Good tier 5 stuff, might work in some other interesting ways.

In article <7d335e0d-b9bb-413b...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > And the point of me replying to this thread is you can't! ;) Fair enough. > Sure, you could use Tortured Confession to look at your opponents > hand, and that's a vaguely useful thing to do, but that doesn't mean > the card should ever go in a constructed deck. Ever. Ouch. Trumped by Tortured Confessions. That's brutal! > Same with > Elixir. It's just terrible. What's the point except taking up room > in my card boxes? At least it could have untapped the equipping > vampire at the end of the turn. Or SOMETHING. Well, let's see what it does do. It is a free weapon. That burns 1 blood at range. And reduces capacity by 1 for a bit. Yeah, unless you are going to do something awesome with the capacity reduction, it is completely useless. What can you do with the capacity reduction? Banishment! Rush Arika! Reduce her capacity by 1 that she can't prevent with FOR! Gwendolyn then gets her petty, petty revenge (for not having a special power!) by Banishing her! Uh, that's all I got. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Aug 29, 11:28 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > Well, let's see what it does do. It is a free weapon. That burns 1 blood > at range. And reduces capacity by 1 for a bit. Yeah, unless you are > going to do something awesome with the capacity reduction, it is > completely useless. What can you do with the capacity reduction? > Grenade is also free and does way more damage. The thing about the capacity reduction is that a single point of capacity reduction is almost never useful. It can be useful in a rare situation like an 11 cap trying to banish an 11 cap, but it's not generally useful enough even to put into a "fun" toolboxy deck as a prayer card. And using it for a lot of capacity reduction requires lots of Elixirs, lots of either equip actions or Concealed Weapons, and lots of strikes. The problem with the strike part of the card is that in the cases where you can actually get the strike off (i.e. they don't dodge, grapple, end or avoid combat), you are likely to get completely tooled in return. I don't like cards in general that only work against the "hope they don't have blasters" school of combat defense, unless those cards are pretty powerful in return (frex. Rabbat's strike that is pretty easy to avoid, even if you do allow her to get in combat with you - but it has a great effect). So you have to assume your opponent can either avoid your strike, making it useless, or tool the crap out of you, making it seem not quite worth it. And you're sitting here trying to burn 1 blood and reduce capacity by 1. It's not even like bringing a knife to a gunfight, it's like bringing a spoon to a nuclear war, and they're not serving pudding. I can see the use for equipment or other cards in the game that have minor effects for a low cost. Something like Powder of Rigidity - I've actually included in a few decks that fear aggro-poke. Life in the City, Border Skirmish. These cards all have small effects. What do they have in common? They refund your action, either by being a trifle or untapping the acting minion at the end of the turn. I can't imagine why Elixir didn't at least have something like that to balance out its utter crappiness. You'd think that the completely useless common wallpaper would be decreasing as the design team gets heaps and heaps of experience at this - and to be fair, I guess it *has* decreased, which is why I hate Elixir so much... =P =) > Banishment! Rush Arika! Reduce her capacity by 1 that she can't prevent > with FOR! Gwendolyn then gets her petty, petty revenge (for not having a > special power!) by Banishing her! > > Uh, that's all I got. > Yeah, people can find situations where having it in your hand just maybe might help you a little bit. (Assuming Arika doesn't S:CE or block and Obedience in the above scenario.) And people can find 20 card combos that do something awesome that might be done in some other way using only 10 or 15 cards. But there's no reason to put it in a deck.

In article <dbd94e8c-3c70-42ca...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > Yeah, people can find situations where having it in your hand just > maybe might help you a little bit. (Assuming Arika doesn't S:CE or > block and Obedience in the above scenario.) And people can find 20 > card combos that do something awesome that might be done in some other > way using only 10 or 15 cards. But there's no reason to put it in a > deck. Oh, don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you on all points. But the "Get into a fight, play 8 Elixir's with 8 Concealeds, Lightning Reflexes all the Elixir's to then Corrupt them with 1 counter!" plan is, at the very least, funny. And not *completely* out of the realm of useful (yeah, wildly inefficient, but still theoretically steals you a big vampire in 2 actions instead of, like, 8). Just mostly. But in terms of your main point? Yeah, Elixir is a bad card. Bad on the level of Tortured Confessions. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <pdb6-0F6465.1...@nntp.aioe.org>, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> writes: >But >the "Get into a fight, play 8 Elixir's with 8 Concealeds, Lightning >Reflexes all the Elixir's to then Corrupt them with 1 counter!" plan is, >at the very least, funny. And not *completely* out of the realm of >useful (yeah, wildly inefficient, but still theoretically steals you a >big vampire in 2 actions instead of, like, 8). Although funny, this falls down when compared with Graverobbing. Send to torpor, fetch, and the vampire isn't hampered by having a tiny capacity. Perhaps half-a-dozen cards vs the 18 you just played. While "X is better than Y" does not prove that Y is unplayable, Graverobbing is so much better for combat-oriented theft that this is just horrible. Perhaps if Elixir had stuck around after you used it, perhaps burning a blood. "Burn this weapon after use, unless the vampire with it burns a blood." (And then the weapon would probably be some sort of magic bottle, rather than elixir in any old flask.) Or maybe if the Anarchs had a weapon-oriented ally around, who gave them bonuses on "Burn after use" weapons (e.g. easier to Conceal (2 at once?), can conceal them back from the Ash Heap for one extra use (then remove), get to put counters on them and use them multiple times before removing them from the game, shuffle back into library). [ quoted text not captured ]

> >>> Let's suppose I receive two Elixir of Distillation, resulting in a 2- > >>> capacity loss. Then, on my master phase, I decide to tap my vampire to > >>> remove. > >>> Do I remove both of them or just one? > >>> Elixir of Distillation > >>> Ranged strike: burn 1 blood from the opposing vampire and reduce his > >>> or her capacity by 1 (capacity cannot be reduced below 1). That > >>> reduction lasts until that vampire's controller uses a master phase > >>> action to tap that vampire. Burn this weapon after use. > >> You only remove one. > > Unless of course you have 2 master phase actions, in which case you > > can remove me than one. > Correct. Huh? What about card text? There's nothing to "remove". There's an effect that lasts until a certain time. If there are one, two, three or ten effects that last until X, they all expire at time X. How can it be otherwise?

[ quoted text not captured ] Specifically, the word"that" means specific reduction if i reading itcorrectly.

[ quoted text not captured ] And according to the wording, each specific reduction lasts until you use a Master Phase action to tap the vampire. There's nothing in the wording to imply that tapping the vampire is a cost... I would think that LSJ may have responded "Correct" to the wrong post. Although even if it does take a separate MPA to remove each Elixir, it's still far from good.

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm pretty sure it's irrelevant. I'm also not clear on why this thread isn't getting many, many responses saying how obvious it is what the card text means and how it absolutley contradicts the 'ruling' here which essentially assumes that the card says "use a master phase action to tap this vampire to end that reduction." That's not what it says. "Lasts until" is unambiguous -- it indicates how long an effect lasts. It doesn't matter that multiple effects last until that time, they still, um, last until that time... and no further.

[ quoted text not captured ] Heh. OK. By that logic, the card text doesn't offer the ability to use a MPA to tap the vampire -- you'd have to come up with some other effect that allowed you to use an MPA to tap the vampire in order to end the effect. But, indeed, the card text offers the vampire's controller the ability to use a MPA to tap the vampire to end that particular Elixir.