Some questions fro LSJ or anyone else who cares :)

A few questions: 1. Since when is Fame unique? Was this an errata ruling or a change in card text? I've already noticed that the pool loss is taken by the Famed vamp's controller due to 7/7 rulings, not prey, but I never understood how it became unique.... 2. If a Pentex Subversion (or Fame) is contested, what happens to the vamps? Are the vamps turned over and unusable, or are they free from the Pentex/Fame card and treated as normal? 3. Clarification on Rotschreck--the rulings say that the card is used to put the vamp about to receive aggro damage in torpor tapped with the card on it. However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the vamp about to inflict the aggro damage. Am I reading the ruling correctly? When the hell would anyone use this card? 4. Does Arrika's ability affect locquipment? (Does her prey's controller have to pay one pool for each one or burn them?)

Kristyl Meth wrote in message <01be958b$ff566f40$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... >A few questions: > >1. Since when is Fame unique? Was this an errata ruling or a change in >card text? I've already noticed that the pool loss is taken by the Famed >vamp's controller due to 7/7 rulings, not prey, but I never understood how >it became unique.... > Fame was changed to unique when Jyhad was changed over to V:TES. If you get a hold of a Vampire backed copy, it now says "Unique Master" >2. If a Pentex Subversion (or Fame) is contested, what happens to the >vamps? Are the vamps turned over and unusable, or are they free from the >Pentex/Fame card and treated as normal? > Contested Pentexes (Penticies? :-) free the vamp from the cards effect for the duration of contestation. (same with Fame) >3. Clarification on Rotschreck--the rulings say that the card is used to >put the vamp about to receive aggro damage in torpor tapped with the card >on it. However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the >vamp about to inflict the aggro damage. Am I reading the ruling correctly? > When the hell would anyone use this card? > When a vampire is about to inflict aggravated damage, that vamp's controller may play Rotschrek to send the opposing vamp immediately to torpor (note all restrictions for Master: OOT, etc. etc) >4. Does Arrika's ability affect locquipment? (Does her prey's controller >have to pay one pool for each one or burn them?) > Loquipments are considered locations once they are in play, so, Yes. Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)

"Kristyl Meth" <dapa...@riderlaw.com> wrote: > A few questions: > > 1. Since when is Fame unique? Was this an errata ruling or a change in > card text? I've already noticed that the pool loss is taken by the Famed > vamp's controller due to 7/7 rulings, not prey, but I never understood how > it became unique.... It became unique (and rightfully so) back when VTES was printed. > 2. If a Pentex Subversion (or Fame) is contested, what happens to the > vamps? Are the vamps turned over and unusable, or are they free from the > Pentex/Fame card and treated as normal? Only the Master card is contested. The vampires are free to act as normal. > 3. Clarification on Rotschreck--the rulings say that the card is used to > put the vamp about to receive aggro damage in torpor tapped with the card > on it...When the hell would anyone use this card? The player controlling a reacting minion attempting to inflict aggravated against a vampire would use Rotschreck to make sure the other vampire goes to torpor. It's very useful if the defending vampire is likely to use S:CE, damage prevention, or unload a can of whoop-ass with Potence, Claws, etc. Note the Malk oot decks that use Rotschreck offensively when Bum's Rushing vampires during other player's turns. A player controlling a defending vampire would use Rotschreck to avoid being burned. > However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the > vamp about to inflict the aggro damage. Not if you know anything about the RPG that the card game is based. Rotschreck is a debilitating fear of aggraveted damage. How many Gangrel do you suppose are afraid of their own claws? > 4. Does Arrika's ability affect locquipment? (Does her prey's controller > have to pay one pool for each one or burn them?) Once it's in play, it's equipment. So...yes, it does. Noal McDonald National Jyhad League -- "The time for action is past! Now is the time for senseless bickering!" -Ashleigh Brilliant -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

"Kristyl Meth" <dapa...@riderlaw.com> wrote: > A few questions: > > 1. Since when is Fame unique? Was this an errata ruling or a change in > card text? I've already noticed that the pool loss is taken by the Famed > vamp's controller due to 7/7 rulings, not prey, but I never understood how > it became unique.... Since RTR 13-APR-1995. It was/is errata. The errata was issued because Fame, as printed, was too abusable. > 2. If a Pentex Subversion (or Fame) is contested, what happens to the > vamps? Are the vamps turned over and unusable, or are they free from the > Pentex/Fame card and treated as normal? The latter. Contested cards have no effect on the cards they are on. (Although cards *on* contested cards are basically out of the game until the contest is won). > 3. Clarification on Rotschreck--the rulings say that the card is used to > put the vamp about to receive aggro damage in torpor tapped with the card > on it. However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the > vamp about to inflict the aggro damage. Am I reading the ruling correctly? Yes. The ruling follows the card text ("minion" inflicts agg damage on a "vampire". That "vampire" goes to torpor). > When the hell would anyone use this card? To prevent someone from escaping the torporizing effect by Majesty, damage prevention, etc. or to prevent reciprocal damage from occuring (Burst of Sunlight, for example). > 4. Does Arrika's ability affect locquipment? (Does her prey's controller > have to pay one pool for each one or burn them?) Yes. Locquipment are locations while they are in play. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

>> card text? I've already noticed that the pool loss is taken by the Famed >> vamp's controller due to 7/7 rulings, not prey, but I never understood how >> it became unique.... > Since we're already speaking about Fame...who controls the Fame? The Methusaleh who placed it or the Methusaleh whose vampire's it on. I know that for some retainers like Charnas, the owner of the vampire controls it. Is it like this with Fame or is it different cause it's a Master card? Halcyan 2

> >> However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the vamp > about to inflict the aggro damage.<< > > Not if you know anything about the RPG that the card game is based. Rotschreck > is a debilitating fear of aggraveted damage. How many Gangrel do you suppose > are afraid of their own claws? Well, what if the acting vamp is a Gangrel as well? How 'bout a Gangrel elder? It doesn't make sense that a vampire with enough Fortitude to get run over by a tank would be afraid of a little tiny ant of a vampire who decides to use its claws. But, that's the way it works. Claws are an unusual example, from a RPG point of view. No vampire sees a Gangrel's claws and has to pass a courage check. A vampire that wants to pick up a torch and use it against another vampire does however. I can see the Rotschreck played from either point of view. If you try to aggro and fail your check, you go into Rotschreck. If someone tries to do aggro to you and you avoid it (or not) but still fail your check, same thing. But, the rule is as the rule is. p.

Patrick Harris wrote in message <372E1E39...@alpinetaxi.com>... >Well, what if the acting vamp is a Gangrel as well? How 'bout a Gangrel elder? >It doesn't make sense that a vampire with enough Fortitude to get run over by a >tank would be afraid of a little tiny ant of a vampire who decides to use its >claws. But, that's the way it works. In the RPG you can take merrits and flaws to make your character cooler and weaker. Like, for instance, an aversion to crosses is a flaw you can take so you get other cool stuff on your character. Rotchrek is the fear of ag damage, so if you've got Rotchrek and somebody tries to use ag damage on you you're scared, even if you old and badass. I played a ventrue primogen in a game here in Atlanta where the Justicar was scared of crosses and mirrors and stuff. Big pain in my ass, because the Brujah found out about it...

> > 3. Clarification on Rotschreck--the rulings say that the card is used to > > put the vamp about to receive aggro damage in torpor tapped with the card > > on it...When the hell would anyone use this card? > > The player controlling a reacting minion attempting to inflict aggravated > against a vampire would use Rotschreck to make sure the other vampire goes to > torpor. It's very useful if the defending vampire is likely to use S:CE, > damage prevention, or unload a can of whoop-ass with Potence, Claws, etc. > Note the Malk oot decks that use Rotschreck offensively when Bum's Rushing > vampires during other player's turns. > > A player controlling a defending vampire would use Rotschreck to avoid being > burned. > > > However, the card seems to make so much more sense when used on the > > vamp about to inflict the aggro damage. > > Not if you know anything about the RPG that the card game is based. Rotschreck > is a debilitating fear of aggraveted damage. How many Gangrel do you suppose > are afraid of their own claws? > Hehe but at the same time, aggravated damage isn't limited to claw damage and vamps are afraid of fire. Using the RPG argument is faulty logic in this case when a vamp is afraid by the fire shot from his own flamethower which has happened to me when playing the RPG. And what about the case where you use a vamp's own claws against him after he hands been torn off. Ok I'm just being silly now. But my group played the card this way for a long time and was a nice defence for us against the agg damage decks that were running rampant amongst my group for eliminating the agg damage dealer. Then we got the rulings and went to the way the card was ruled to be played. I must say though that Rot has the worst card text mostly because there's no better way to make it sound than the awkward way it's printed. Has the inbetween ever been considered though? Where the player of Rot can choose which vampire is affected once someone has declared aggravated damage? Just ranting in curiousity now, this has no real game effect and I don't expect it to ever be ruled that way. Vince

Halcyan 2 wrote: > Since we're already speaking about Fame...who controls the Fame? The > Methusaleh who placed it or the Methusaleh whose vampire's it on. I know that > for some retainers like Charnas, the owner of the vampire controls it. Is it > like this with Fame or is it different cause it's a Master card? Different 'cause it's a Master card. A Master card is controlled by the Methuselah who played it (unless card text says otherwise). [ quoted text not captured ]

> In the RPG you can take merrits and flaws to make your character cooler and > weaker. Like, for instance, an aversion to crosses is a flaw you can take so > you get other cool stuff on your character. Rotchrek is the fear of ag damage, > so if you've got Rotchrek and somebody tries to use ag damage on you you're > scared, even if you old and badass. True, but your target to resist Rotschreck would be far lower than normal in the RPG. And Rotschreck is, I believe, the state of frenzy that a vampire enters upon failing a Courage check (when they encounter the possibility of aggravated damage), not the actual fear itself. But I could be wrong on that. I guess my point was that age/capacity doesn't matter for Jyhad purposes. Old or young, the vampire goes to torpor. There is no given that, being a great deal older, the vampire has probably faced that situation before and should therefore have an easier time resisting Rotschreck. Sure he's still afraid of fire, but not nearly as afraid as a vampire that hasn't faced fire before. (Unless of course he's been burned over and over and over and has some sort of dementia because of it. But that's getting off topic a bit more than we already are.) I was just attempting to point out that in the RPG Rotschreck is used in both situations: an attacker trying to use aggravated (torches and such), or a defender trying to avoid it. Noal mentioned claws as an example ("How many Gangrel do you suppose are afraid of their own claws?") and I was suggesting that for the RPG claws is sort of a bad example, because neither the attacker nor the defender in combat would have to make a Courage check for seeing a Gangrel's claws. Something like a torch is a better example. > I played a ventrue primogen in a game here in Atlanta where the Justicar was > scared of crosses and mirrors and stuff. Big pain in my ass, because the > Brujah found out about it... Ventrue never were that good at keeping secrets. They trust the Nossies with too much. And the Toreador. And the Setites they believe to be Toreador. And the... =) p.

In article <19990503173502...@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> writes >Since we're already speaking about Fame...who controls the Fame? The >Methusaleh who placed it or the Methusaleh whose vampire's it on. I know that >for some retainers like Charnas, the owner of the vampire controls it. Is it >like this with Fame or is it different cause it's a Master card? Controller of Master card = Meth. who played it Controller of Minion (non-Master) card = Controller of minion it is on In all cases, check card text, though. Some things change controller. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

In article <7gla6j$sqq$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Robert C Campbell Jr <bj...@mindspring.com> writes >Rotchrek is the fear of ag >damage Well, in the RPG, fear of flames/sunlight, rather than the damage itself. And it affects most vampires (there may be paths etc. which don't fear it) regardless of disciplines or clan. [ quoted text not captured ]