[Q] an NRA question.

ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i right, or wrong? jim p.s. i cut-n-pasted the NRA below: A given minion may not repeat an action, by action type, in a single turn (whether the first action was successful or not). The defined "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor. If an action card is used to perform one of these actions, that action is considered to be of that type. If it is not one of those actions (such as Bum's Rush), then it is a type of its own, by card name. If a card in play is used to perform one of these actions, that action is considered to be of that type. If it is not one of these actions (such as "enter combat via Haven Uncovered"), then it is a type of its own, by specific instance of the card in play -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

James Dyes wrote: > > ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i > *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak > drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace > GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i > right, or wrong? Wrong. Any "same action" is the "same type of action". So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > > jim > > p.s. i cut-n-pasted the NRA below: > > A given minion may not repeat an action, by action type, in a single > turn (whether the first action was successful or not). The defined > "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, > employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a > vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor. > > If an action card is used to perform one of these actions, that action > is considered to be of that type. If it is not one of those actions > (such as Bum's Rush), then it is a type of its own, by card name. > > If a card in play is used to perform one of these actions, that action > is considered to be of that type. If it is not one of these actions > (such as "enter combat via Haven Uncovered"), then it is a type of its > own, by specific instance of the card in play -- LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > James Dyes wrote: > > ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i > > *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak > > drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace > > GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i > > right, or wrong? > > Wrong. > Any "same action" is the "same type of action". > So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". > It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > Actually, James Dyes has a point... at very least, that the NRA rule could be worded more clearly. Reasoning (quoting 6.4.1. No Repeat Actions from WW website): "A given minion may not repeat an action, by action type, in a single turn (whether the first action was successful or not). The defined "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor." - NRA applies only to the same "action type". (Duh.) "If an action card is used to perform one of these actions, that action is considered to be of that type." - Inferior GtU is thus a "bleed action type". [Supposedly, this sentence should be taken to mean "the action is a <action card's name> action type, but it isn't clear enough.] "If it is not one of those actions (such as Bum's Rush), then it is a type of its own, by card name." - Superior GtU is a "GtU action type", but inferior GtU doesn't get to this part of the rule, as it already is a "bleed action type"- it never gets a chance to check if it is a "GtU action type" as well. Thomas

Thomas Pichler wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > James Dyes wrote: > > > ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i > > > *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak > > > drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace > > > GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i > > > right, or wrong? > > > > Wrong. > > Any "same action" is the "same type of action". > > So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". > > It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > > > > Actually, James Dyes has a point... at very least, that the NRA rule could be > worded more clearly. Yes, it could. But James Dyes was just asking if his statement was right or wrong. I was answering that question (with explanation) by passing along the ruling that had already been made. -- LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C9F921C.571023C4@white-wolf.com... > Thomas Pichler wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > James Dyes wrote: > > > > ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i > > > > *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak > > > > drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace > > > > GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i > > > > right, or wrong? > > > > > > Wrong. > > > Any "same action" is the "same type of action". > > > So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". > > > It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > > > > > > > Actually, James Dyes has a point... at very least, that the NRA rule could be > > worded more clearly. > > Yes, it could. > > But James Dyes was just asking if his statement was right or wrong. > I was answering that question (with explanation) by passing along > the ruling that had already been made. Wouldn't it just have been easier to state that, since: Action 1: a "Govern the Unaligned" (at superior) action-type Action 2: a "Govern the Unaligned" BLEED action-type Therefore, since both actions are of the same "type" (i.e. the "Govern the Unaligned" type), this is prohibhited under NRA. That's usually how I have explained it to people. > LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

that's cool...that is what i figured anyways, as i am sure i am not the first person to notice the wording of the NRA:-) jd -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

LSJ wrote: > Thomas Pichler wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > James Dyes wrote: > > > > ok, so my question is this: according to my reading of the NRA rule, i > > > > *should* be able to play a govern the unaligned at superior, freak > > > > drive, then bleed with an inferior govern the unaligned (can replace > > > > GotU with Entrancement, or Scouting Mission, or Enchant Kindred). Am i > > > > right, or wrong? > > > > > > Wrong. > > > Any "same action" is the "same type of action". > > > So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". > > > It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > > > > > > > Actually, James Dyes has a point... at very least, that the NRA rule could be > > worded more clearly. > > Yes, it could. > > But James Dyes was just asking if his statement was right or wrong. > I was answering that question (with explanation) by passing along > the ruling that had already been made. > True - I was just trying to point out that James's post got me re-reading the rule and that it indeed isn't worded clearly in that respect - a re-wording of the NRA rule might help keep the question from popping up again and again. (Particularly after the Camarilla set release, if indeed it does draw new players.) THomas

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:27:38 -0500, LSJ <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >Wrong. >Any "same action" is the "same type of action". >So the normal GtU is both a "GtU action" and a "bleed action". >It cannot be done if you've GtU'ed or bled before in the same turn. > >> >> jim >> >> p.s. i cut-n-pasted the NRA below: >> >> A given minion may not repeat an action, by action type, in a single >> turn (whether the first action was successful or not). The defined >> "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, >> employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a >> vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor. >> >> If an action card is used to perform one of these actions, that action >> is considered to be of that type. If it is not one of those actions >> (such as Bum's Rush), then it is a type of its own, by card name. >> So can a minion bleed, then force of will or FD/GtU? T

Talonz51@nospam.hotmail.com wrote: > So can a minion bleed, then force of will or FD/GtU? A minion cannot bleed then bleed on the same turn under NRA, no. He could bleed and then do a superior GtU, though. -- LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/