The reason why we all tend to build rush decks with little vamps is that
by the time big vamps get out your average rush deck is dead already.
However, if one could slow up the other decks one would have more time,
and big vamps would then be an option. So i am toying with the idea of a
deck based on Thetmes clan-impersonating to !Toreador, getting the Art of
Pain and depravity, and wreaking Havoc in consequence. The idea is for
this deck to survive until its combo comes off through a goodly dose of
Telepathic counter/misdirection, Eagles' Sight and Millicent Smith -
little vamps with AUS being most of the rest of the crypt, obviously, and
a bit of Art Scam may well go in there for further pool gain.
The questions are, having clan-impersonated, [i] does Thetmes lose all
his contracts [i believe the answer is yes], and [ii] can he now commit
diablerie [i believe the answer is no]?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out with this; also, if anyone has built
this deck already i'd like to know about it ... don't really want to be
recreating something that is already someone else's baby!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> [snip] I am toying with the idea of a
> deck based on Thetmes clan-impersonating to !Toreador, [snip]>
> The questions are, having clan-impersonated, [i] does Thetmes lose all
> his contracts [i believe the answer is yes], and [ii] can he now commit
> diablerie [i believe the answer is no]?
Correct on both.
(Actually, Thetmes is merely unable to use the Contracts he has been chosen
for until he becomes an Assamite again).
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
Out of curiosity, why Thetmes over Basilia and/or Samantha? Is it just one
of those things?
(Hmm. What about Thetmes _and_ Samantha? Hmm.)
Fish.
wants to do a reversal of fortunes/millicent stealth/intercept deck
On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The reason why we all tend to build rush decks with little vamps is that
> by the time big vamps get out your average rush deck is dead already.
> However, if one could slow up the other decks one would have more time,
> and big vamps would then be an option. So i am toying with the idea of a
> deck based on Thetmes clan-impersonating to !Toreador, getting the Art of
> Pain and depravity, and wreaking Havoc in consequence. The idea is for
> this deck to survive until its combo comes off through a goodly dose of
> Telepathic counter/misdirection, Eagles' Sight and Millicent Smith -
> little vamps with AUS being most of the rest of the crypt, obviously, and
> a bit of Art Scam may well go in there for further pool gain.
>> The questions are, having clan-impersonated, [i] does Thetmes lose all
> his contracts [i believe the answer is yes], and [ii] can he now commit
> diablerie [i believe the answer is no]?
>[ quoted text not captured ]
Fish Flowers wrote:
> Out of curiosity, why Thetmes over Basilia and/or Samantha? Is it just
> one of those things?
>
> (Hmm. What about Thetmes _and_ Samantha? Hmm.)
Perhaps Lambach would be even better, with his AUS and pre. Depends on
whether you're wanting the killer to have CEL. But Lambach would have
the 3 votes as well.
p.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.99101...@harper.uchicago.edu>,
Fish Flowers <awfl...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>Fish.
>wants to do a reversal of fortunes/millicent stealth/intercept deck
Gah, I never could get that to really work. The trouble I found is that
you also need to have combat for when the Millicents run out, and it helps
to also have stealth so you don't get hurt. I was able to pull sustained
sneaky bleed, light Aid from Bats based combat, and permanent intercept/
untap in a Nosferatu deck, but then I didn't have any real way to get
the Reversal of Fortune to pass. :-/
Huh, here's a funny idea. Make a Malkavian voting deck, with Reversal
of Fortune and the Madness Network. If you could get this ticking, it'd
really be quite rude, since you get 2 turns to your pred/preys 1,
and other players just wouldn't get to go at all.
It'd be difficult to set up, since you'd need to protect the network,
and somehow gain enough voting power to Reversal of Fortune.
Anyone everyone try anything like this?
--
/\ Jasper Phillips
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz
j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--.
* http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`
In article <7ttn9n$iap$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <myrm...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Fish Flowers wrote:>> Out of curiosity, why Thetmes over Basilia and/or Samantha? Is it just
>> one of those things?
>>
>> (Hmm. What about Thetmes _and_ Samantha? Hmm.)>
>Perhaps Lambach would be even better, with his AUS and pre. Depends on
>whether you're wanting the killer to have CEL. But Lambach would have
>the 3 votes as well.
Definitely go with Lazervinius. That +2 Hand Damage (and doesn't he
have Protean too?) is intimidating. Actually, all things considered,
Wynn's probably the best, since you can Freak Drive, etc. for
lots of attacks.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <7tu9e8$nvj$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@bc.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper
Phillips) wrote:
> In article <7ttn9n$iap$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <myrm...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >Fish Flowers wrote:
> >> Out of curiosity, why Thetmes over Basilia and/or Samantha? Is it just
> >> one of those things?
> >>
> >> (Hmm. What about Thetmes _and_ Samantha? Hmm.)
> >
> >Perhaps Lambach would be even better, with his AUS and pre. Depends on
> >whether you're wanting the killer to have CEL. But Lambach would have
> >the 3 votes as well.
>
> Definitely go with Lazervinius. That +2 Hand Damage (and doesn't he
> have Protean too?) is intimidating. Actually, all things considered,
> Wynn's probably the best, since you can Freak Drive, etc. for
> lots of attacks.
Only 1 more D attack than Laverinus. And Laverinus has 2 votes, DOM, POT,
AUS, FOR and pro.
I can see a eagle sight/block, rush, bleed deck there, with Sup
govern/spying mission to get more vamps out quick.
--
Michael F. Tomkins Sure, when...
m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au OINK FLAP OINK FLAP...
University of Canberra, Australia. Well I'll be damned!
http://blitzen.canberra.edu.au/~bahkyp/
In article <m.tomkins-121...@brucehall15.anu.edu.au>,
Michael F. Tomkins <m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
>In article <7tu9e8$nvj$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@bc.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper
>Phillips) wrote:>> Definitely go with Lazervinius. That +2 Hand Damage (and doesn't he
>> have Protean too?) is intimidating. Actually, all things considered,
>> Wynn's probably the best, since you can Freak Drive, etc. for
>> lots of attacks.>
>Only 1 more D attack than Laverinus. And Laverinus has 2 votes, DOM, POT,
>AUS, FOR and pro.
"Only" one more D attack. Heh. ;-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.99101...@harper.uchicago.edu>,
Fish Flowers <awfl...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Out of curiosity, why Thetmes over Basilia and/or Samantha? Is it just one
> of those things?
Thetmes has CEL in common with the !Toreador, so can play manouevers,
additional strikes and damage prevention; but crucially because he has
pot for IG. Basilia has pot, of course, so she is an option, and in a
different kind of deck so would Lazverinus be. But Laz is dangerous,
because frequently contested. The idea in this deck is to do a large
amount of agg hand damage, and to be relatively economical in terms of
strike cards, so that there is space for the anti-bleed and vote cards
which you need to survive early in the game.
>
> (Hmm. What about Thetmes _and_ Samantha? Hmm.)
>> Fish.
> wants to do a reversal of fortunes/millicent stealth/intercept deck
Phillippe Richer and Gomi [i think] had vicious Malky OOT vote decks on-
line in [AIR] jol84 and another game; Gomi's was more or less the one
Jasper discusses further down this thread, and it certainly screwed me up
good and proper.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 12 Oct 1999 06:44:45 GMT, phil...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper
Phillips) wrote:
>In article <m.tomkins-121...@brucehall15.anu.edu.au>,
>Michael F. Tomkins <m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:>>In article <7tu9e8$nvj$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@bc.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper
>>Phillips) wrote:>>> Definitely go with Lazervinius. That +2 Hand Damage (and doesn't he
>>> have Protean too?) is intimidating. Actually, all things considered,
>>> Wynn's probably the best, since you can Freak Drive, etc. for
>>> lots of attacks.>>
>>Only 1 more D attack than Laverinus. And Laverinus has 2 votes, DOM, POT,
>>AUS, FOR and pro.>
>"Only" one more D attack. Heh. ;-)
But that one is cardless - so when you've got a handful of boolsheet,
you can ALWAYS get at least a few cards moving and maybe find a Freak
Drive or a card-Rush... =)
-- Derek
PEACE, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating
between two periods of fighting.
(replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)
legbiter wrote:
> Thetmes has CEL in common with the !Toreador, so can play manouevers,
> additional strikes and damage prevention; but crucially because he has
> pot for IG. Basilia has pot, of course, so she is an option, and in a
> different kind of deck so would Lazverinus be. But Laz is dangerous,
> because frequently contested. The idea in this deck is to do a large
> amount of agg hand damage, and to be relatively economical in terms of
> strike cards, so that there is space for the anti-bleed and vote cards
> which you need to survive early in the game.
Hmm... I can see a nasty. Throw in some voting for the !Tory pups and
Hidden Lukers perhaps to punish any would-be blockers with Thetmes.
Kind of a "my big brother will beat you up" type of deck. Although,
perhaps that's a different deck entirely from what you envisioned.
Hmm... perhaps if you wanted a little more voting power, and wanted to
rely more on the Potence rather than the aggravated damage (you could
still use Burning Wrath or Decapitate with larger vamps, if you wanted),
you could go with either IC member Harrod or Gwendolyn. Little chance
of either of those two being contested. 4 votes and +2 bleed. Both
with POT. Both with aus, CEL and either PRE or pre to match up with the
!Tory. Again though, I think it may be different from what you were
wanting to do.
Ideas.. ideas..
Brainstorming... barnstorming. What's the difference?
p.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <7ttl4c$c3u$1...@news.NERO.NET>,
Jasper Phillips <phil...@or.ENGR.ORST.EDU> wrote:
>In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.99101...@harper.uchicago.edu>,
>Fish Flowers <awfl...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:>>
>>Fish.
>>wants to do a reversal of fortunes/millicent stealth/intercept deck>>Gah, I never could get that to really work. The trouble I found is that
>you also need to have combat for when the Millicents run out, and it helps
>to also have stealth so you don't get hurt. I was able to pull sustained
>sneaky bleed, light Aid from Bats based combat, and permanent intercept/
>untap in a Nosferatu deck, but then I didn't have any real way to get
>the Reversal of Fortune to pass. :-/
>
>Huh, here's a funny idea. Make a Malkavian voting deck, with Reversal
>of Fortune and the Madness Network. If you could get this ticking, it'd
>really be quite rude, since you get 2 turns to your pred/preys 1,
>and other players just wouldn't get to go at all.
>
>It'd be difficult to set up, since you'd need to protect the network,
>and somehow gain enough voting power to Reversal of Fortune.
>
>Anyone everyone try anything like this?
>
I've done it and it works beautifully. I usually use Dramatic
Upheaval/Kindred Restructure, but I've got a few Reversals in there too.
Switching seats lets you pick up easy VPs from killing weak Meths, whereas
reversal requires you to actually kill your prey. I took Millicent out to
keep things focused. The main problems I've had are a lack of combat
defense, and a bit of trouble assuring the votes pass. I think the combat
defense wouldn't be an issue If I wasn't also doing a lot of Progeny/Embrace
in the deck too. The malks don't have a lot of votes, so you need to get
them early to stay ahead of "real" political decks. The quick votes come
from Malk Justicar, followed up with Praxis. I've also got some Command of
the Harpies, as PS votes are less likely to stay around than the votes taken
away from others are to stay gone. I don't have any Malkavian Rider Clauses,
or they would help to alleviate this, I think. My version of the deck also
loads up on Consanguinous Boons (sp?) since all your vamps are malks, and they
are coming out of the woodwork. The other advantage to using the network
with Progeny is that you can create Progeny on your turn, and they can act
on your prey's turn, getting around their little restriction.
An Ideal first few turns:
Turn 1 (4 Transfers!)
Brazil, Normal
Turn 2
Madness Network
Brazil calls Malk Justicar on himself, with 3 votes for, backed by stealth.
Normal calls PS Cleveland on himself, with 4 votes for.
Bring out Zoe, 1 to Victoria
On your prey's turn, you call Dramatic Upheaval w/Zoe, backed by stealth.
You get the next turn.
Turn 3
Feeding Ground
Progeny with Brazil
Embrace with Zoe
Bring out Victoria
On your prey's turn, you call Kindred Restructure w/Normal, backed by stealth.
Put the weakest person as your prey, and you get the next turn.
Night mission your prey with Zoe.
Hunt/bleed with Progeny.
Turn 4
Gain 3 pool from the edge.
You've got 6 active vamps:
Brazil (Justicar)
Normal (Prince)
Victoria
Zoe
Progeny
Embrace
So each Consangeuinous boon gives you 6 pool.
The rest of the game goes like this, with you following your prey around the
table, and no-one else getting a turn while your Upheavals/Restructurings hold
out. Plus, you're getting 3 pool a turn, plus 6-10 per Boon, and you're
getting more minions every turn. The only potential problem is hand jam
with stealth, but you're getting enough turns to be able to discard.
Anyway, I don't have a deck list, but I think my deck is something like:
Victoria x2
Zoe x2
Brazil
Normal x2
Dollface
Lucian
Gilbert Duane
Leandro
Greger Andersson
Master:
Madness Network x5
Auspex x3
Obfuscate x10
Asylum Hunting ground x2
Fragment
Auspex (Protect the Network):
Spirit's Touch x3
H.S. x3
Eagle's Sight x2
Telepathic Vote Counting x3
Obfuscate:
Lost in Crowds x3
Faceless Night x5
Hidden Pathways x3
Cloak the Gathering x5
Night Missions x3
Praxis Seizures x8
Malk Justicar x3 (All I have)
Command of the Harpies x3
Second Tradition x4
Dramatic Upheaval x6
Kindred Restructure x6
Consang. Boon x6
Reversal of Fortunes x2
Progeny x6
Embrace x6
I've also tried it with a splash of Presence, since I don't have enough
Telepathic Vote Countings.
Bye,
Cy Myers
In article <7tv54b$hsv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <legb...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.99101...@harper.uchicago.edu>,>> wants to do a reversal of fortunes/millicent stealth/intercept deck>Phillippe Richer and Gomi [i think] had vicious Malky OOT vote decks on->line in [AIR] jol84 and another game; Gomi's was more or less the one
>Jasper discusses further down this thread, and it certainly screwed me up
>good and proper.
The jol84 deck was made by IN...@baka.com, and used the Madness Network/
Reversal of Fortune combo, with some weenie Ventrue and Presence thrown
in for vote support. I took it over a few turns in and (once I figured
out how to use it) got 5 out of 8 VPs.
There were a huge number of votes on the table in that game, and I was able
to win only by making deals (i.e., support my Reversals of Fortune and you,
me (and the people in between us) will get to act, but your pred and my prey
won't). It was pretty close at a couple of points.
legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The reason why we all tend to build rush decks with little vamps is that
> by the time big vamps get out your average rush deck is dead already.
> However, if one could slow up the other decks one would have more time,
> and big vamps would then be an option. So i am toying with the idea of a
> deck based on Thetmes clan-impersonating to !Toreador, getting the Art of
> Pain and depravity, and wreaking Havoc in consequence. The idea is for
> this deck to survive until its combo comes off through a goodly dose of
> Telepathic counter/misdirection, Eagles' Sight and Millicent Smith -
> little vamps with AUS being most of the rest of the crypt, obviously, and
> a bit of Art Scam may well go in there for further pool gain.
>
> The questions are, having clan-impersonated, [i] does Thetmes lose all
> his contracts [i believe the answer is yes], and [ii] can he now commit
> diablerie [i believe the answer is no]?
I think the answer to both questions is no.
Rather than have him impersonate a Tor ant, why not just Bang Nakh /
Disguised Weapon?
In article <38073ED8...@abdn.ac.uk>,
Duncan Campbell <u11...@abdn.ac.uk> wrote:
> I think the answer to both questions is no.
> Rather than have him impersonate a Tor ant, why not just Bang Nakh /
> Disguised Weapon?
Style. Something that looks cool gets you many kudos points.
However, there is also the *slight* possiblity of a Bang Nakh going
away, which doesn't really exist with the Art of Pain, as I recall.
(However, the Art of Pain may be unique...)
--
James Coupe
"There is a boy across the river with an arse
like a peach." (Peterhouse College Motto, allegedly)
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <7u9jpv$3vh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
James C <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <38073ED8...@abdn.ac.uk>,
> Duncan Campbell <u11...@abdn.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I think the answer to both questions is no.
Well, kind of. See LSJ's answer in this thread - the contracts don't go
away, but thetmes can't use them until he goes back to being an assassin.
He still can't dibble people, though - powerful things, tremere curses.
> > Rather than have him impersonate a Tor ant, why not just Bang Nakh /
> > Disguised Weapon?
>
> Style. Something that looks cool gets you many kudos points.
That, and the fact that while Thetmes' hand damage is aggravated, his
weapon strikes are not. The idea is to rush, IG, and whack for shedloads
of aggravated damage. Then do it again, if your victim has the bad taste
to play damage prevention.
>
> However, there is also the *slight* possiblity of a Bang Nakh going
> away, which doesn't really exist with the Art of Pain, as I recall.
> (However, the Art of Pain may be unique...)
It is unique, but unlikely to be contested. Most people who are playing
!Tor won't be majoring on combat, or if they are, it will be dodgy
weapons combat.
>
> --
> James Coupe
> "There is a boy across the river with an arse
> like a peach." (Peterhouse College Motto, allegedly)
>
i'm sure it sounds better in Latin. Dundee university has Dominus
Magnificatio Anima Mea ["The Lord doth Magnify My SOul"] which we used to
mistranslate as "Isn't it Magnificent to be Dominated by a Beast Like
me".
[ quoted text not captured ]
<snip>
Dundee university has Dominus
> Magnificatio Anima Mea ["The Lord doth Magnify My SOul"] which we used to
> mistranslate as "Isn't it Magnificent to be Dominated by a Beast Like
> me".
>
Hmm, that can't be right. It should be something like Magnificat Dominum
[or maybe Domino; Nah, it's GOT to be accusative] Anima Mea [My soul doth
Magnify the Lord]. i think i was confused with the Oxford motto which is
something like Dominus Illuminatio Mea [The Lord is my Light]. The
mistranslation stands, though.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article
<87478C53F7712494.FE1005E4...@lp.airnews.net>,
lor...@nospam.nineball.org (Derek S. Ray) wrote:
> On 12 Oct 1999 06:44:45 GMT, phil...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper
> Phillips) wrote:
>
> >In article <m.tomkins-121...@brucehall15.anu.edu.au>,
> >Michael F. Tomkins <m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
> >>In article <7tu9e8$nvj$1...@news.NERO.NET>, phil...@bc.ENGR.ORST.EDU
(Jasper
> >>Phillips) wrote:
> >>> Definitely go with Lazervinius. That +2 Hand Damage (and doesn't
he
> >>> have Protean too?) is intimidating. Actually, all things
considered,
> >>> Wynn's probably the best, since you can Freak Drive, etc. for
> >>> lots of attacks.
> >>
> >>Only 1 more D attack than Laverinus. And Laverinus has 2 votes, DOM,
POT,
> >>AUS, FOR and pro.
> >
> >"Only" one more D attack. Heh. ;-)
>
> But that one is cardless - so when you've got a handful of boolsheet,
> you can ALWAYS get at least a few cards moving and maybe find a Freak
> Drive or a card-Rush... =)
Why don't you use both?
[ quoted text not captured ]