Card restrictions (6?)

Hi all, I'd like to start a new thread on this, and I'm sure I'll get some flame for it (I know I've gotten enough of it from the players here). This is concerning card restrictions. I honestly believe that a card restriction of 6 is no restriction at all! Speaking from personal deck building skills (and playing exp) I know very few people who use more than 6 of any card in a deck (OK, so I _did_ have 8 Theft's in my Tremere deck). The moment that WotC announced the change, many of the local yokels went about throwing in the four other Maj, KRC, etc. . . Mr Wylie- what do we have to do to get you to consider re-instating the 2 card limit on the restricted list? Also, does anyone else think that Blood doll and Minion Tap have gotten out of hand? I'm sick and tired of the Ventrue vote machine/ blood recycler deck. Let's face it, there are enough leeches in the game as it is! Zaphod

[ quoted text not captured ] I would disagree somewhat, in a no card limit enviroment I always place more than 6 wakes in my deck(ussually between 8-15 in a 100 card deck), and I fell that unless you make misdirection illegal 6 is a good limit on the number of wakes in a deck (I could maybe except 4 but 2 is just makes misdirection too powerful) I have also made very focused decks with 20 or so S:CE (Like gangrel permenent intercept and ventrue combat avodiance/vote/bleed) but I think 6 is a resnoable limit and both of these strategies will work(be it a little watered down) at 6, at 2 the cards might as well not exist(because they are useless if you can't count on them). I think a better solution would be to make both majesty and earth meld cost one to use(and majesty would still be another 1 to untap). This cost would bring it in line with Skin of Steal(both prevent all of the damage for 1 round, IMO the end combat effect(basically prevent all damage and no body can play a press this round, but sac your strike) is in line with Skin of steal which instead of no presses you don't have to sac your stike. I don't think cat guidance or rat's warning need to be limited( I think they are both self limiting, cat guidance by the fact it is useless against combat decks, which will torpor you, and against misdirection/ bleed decks. Rat's warning cuz it is useless against vote decks, and not very effective against equipment/retainer decks, minion stealing decks and lots of other non-standard decks.) I think that a limit of two is needed on the votes if WOTC or the people that run tournaments are not willing to fix the vote push problem( I would go ahead an add all votes to the two card limit or someone maybe able to win with some cheese gain blood/all the hostile votes he can carry weenie vote deck). Did I leave anything out, oh yah freak drive. I think a limit of 6 will make freak bleed a little two powerful( of course not as powerful as weenie vote, but a distant second for most abusive/annoying deck combination) I think a limit around 4 is best, or better yet the only one action of each kind per minion per turn rule combined with no using 5th tradition on yourself is a better fix, but it does introduce the problem of having to create an official defenition of all the "kinds" of actions so maybe 4 card limit is the best solution(I will have to think about that) I don't see minion tap as a problem, it is only dangerous when combined with 5th tradition and it becomes a powerful two card combinitation, but with lots of vulnerabilties. The minion tap can be sudden reversed, the 5th tradition blocked, only a prince can use 5th tradition so the prince is vulnerable to combat decks (either intercept based or direct) and the title can be removed by vote decks. It is a very betable combination. I think the reward is what it should be if you can pull this off. As for blood doll I think it is a very powerful card, and it is somewhat borning in that I see it so often but I really don't think it is out of hand. I think maybe a cost of 1 pool to deploy it would be a good. Then at least there would be a little risk to using it. -- Steve

It was pretty clear that a limit of 2 on the restricted cards was overly restrictive (it cripples the vote deck concept, for example). When we reset the restricted limit, we erred on the high side, since it's easier for someone to prove that a restriction is too lax rather than too constrictive. If we got suitable feedback that 6 was too high a number, we'd take a look at lowering the number. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Although Blood machines are usally grotesque I feel they are a vital part of the game and usally require 2 cards Minimum and can be broken down by smart oppenents. Praxis:Solomon works beautifully for the Permanents. Errol T.

Oops I meant to say Disputed Territory is good for breaking down These Blood Machines sorry! Errol T.

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: >It was pretty clear that a limit of 2 on the restricted cards was overly >restrictive (it cripples the vote deck concept, for example). When we >reset the restricted limit, we erred on the high side, since it's easier >for someone to prove that a restriction is too lax rather than too >constrictive. If we got suitable feedback that 6 was too high a number, >we'd take a look at lowering the number. Well... as soon as people start playing with the DC rules I'm sure you'll get some feedback. :) However it seems that the DC rules are played by _very_ few groups. So no one is playing the weenie VP decks that will probably beat up on people under the DC rules (I know my DC legal WVP ripped through our group). The only thing stopping me from playing it more often is the overflowing cheese when I use it (besides its just not fun, and there's nothing to prove with it). Couple of side notes: Nice to see that the Web site is finally being updated (at least since I can't reach the tourney rules I assume that they are being changed... handful of months late, but better late then never) What are the plans for VTES tourneys atre GenCon (since I may or may not be going, and this will probably affect my decision) Charles -- Charles T. Schwope | Every man is a spark in the darkness. By the aka CT | time he is noticed, he is gone forever, a sch...@infrared.csc.ti.com | retinal afterimage that fades, and is obscured c-sc...@ti.com | by newer, brighter lights.

I apologize if this seems like a dumb question, but last I heard Majesty, Freak Drive, Earth Meld, etc. are limited to two card, or has it changed? Jim -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- An apology for the Devil - it must be remembered that we have only heard one side of the case. God has written all the books. -Samuel Butler -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jim & Andrew Davis da...@spectra.net

Jim & Andrew Davis <da...@spectra.net> wrote: >I apologize if this seems like a dumb question, but last I heard >Majesty, Freak Drive, Earth Meld, etc. are limited to two card, or >has it changed? The restricted list was changed to allowing 6 per card. [ quoted text not captured ]