A few questions for Jon or LSJ

1. Is it possible to use a cryptic ryder to automatically pass a vote after succesfully passing a vote with a cryptic ryder. (Assuming you pass the first of three votes that you call on your turn.) eg. Call a vote, enough players vote for it and it passes That vampire plays a cryptic ryder A second vampire calls another vote, it passes automatically That second vampire plays a cryptic ryder A thrid vampire calls a vote Does it pass automatically? 2. Can a vampire with a Fire Dance use it outside of combat (eg. To avoid going to torpor when he/she plays a Sunrise Service 3. If the prey of the acting minion attempts to block and fails, does the predator of the acting minion get a chance to block? (The rulebook says prey or predator, so I'm not sure.) Thanks very much.

ec...@interlog.com (Dallas Card) writes: >1. Is it possible to use a cryptic ryder to automatically pass a vote after succesfully >passing a vote with a cryptic ryder. (Assuming you pass the first of three votes >that you call on your turn.) >eg. Call a vote, enough players vote for it and it passes > That vampire plays a cryptic ryder > A second vampire calls another vote, it passes automatically > That second vampire plays a cryptic ryder > A thrid vampire calls a vote > Does it pass automatically? Yes. You can chain cryptic riders for as long as you want (provided you dont' run out of Political Actions and/or vampires to act with). >2. Can a vampire with a Fire Dance use it outside of combat (eg. To avoid going > to torpor when he/she plays a Sunrise Service No. It says "once each combat..." so, like Flak Jacket, can only be used during combat. >3. If the prey of the acting minion attempts to block and fails, does the predator of >the acting minion get a chance to block? >(The rulebook says prey or predator, so I'm not sure.) (assuming an undirected action, of course): Yes, after the Prey has stopped attempting to block. (The Prey can still choose a second blocker after the first one fails, and a third after that, and so on until the Prey finally concedes not to block. The acting minion's stealth remains in effect troughout the blocking attempts, as normal). Once the Prey declines to block, then the Predator gets her chance. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Eschew http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Obfuscation Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

>>2. Can a vampire with a Fire Dance use it outside of combat (eg. To avoid >>going >> to torpor when he/she plays a Sunrise Service >No. It says "once each combat..." so, like Flak Jacket, can only be used >during combat. Nononono... Fire Dance is exactly the same as Merill Molitor's special ability. And I think it's oficcial that Merill Molitor DONT go to torpor when he do a Rutors Hand.

staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se (staffan.bengtsson) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] Yesyesyesyes. Merrill's ability also only applies to combat. The fact that the damage from superior Rutor's Hand is treated as if from a strike in combat (official errata) may be confusing this issue. Thankfully, Sunrise Service has no such errata. So, combat effects (Merrill, Fire Dance, etc.) cannot be applied. [ quoted text not captured ]

>Yesyesyesyes. >Merrill's ability also only applies to combat. Combat prevent and Flack Jacket's can also only be used under combat... But since the new "damage outside combat" arrived, thing's have changed... >The fact that the damage from superior Rutor's Hand is treated as if from >a strike in combat (official errata) may be confusing this issue. confusing? You make me confused. >Thankfully, Sunrise Service has no such errata. So, combat effects (Merrill, >Fire Dance, etc.) cannot be applied. Yeah, right... Damage outside combat is always the same. And I CAN prevent Pulled Fangs with nearly all prevent card,s since nearly no prevent card specificcially tell's me that they MUST be used during strike resoultion.

On 26 Nov 1996, staffan.bengtsson wrote: > And I CAN prevent Pulled Fangs with nearly all prevent card,s since nearly > no prevent card specificcially tell's me that they MUST be used during strike > resoultion. > No you can't. you can only prevent damage in the damage resolution phase. Check the rulebook. David Pontes 8[

staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se (staffan.bengtsson) writes: >>Yesyesyesyes. >>Merrill's ability also only applies to combat. >Combat prevent and Flack Jacket's can also only be used under combat... >But since the new "damage outside combat" arrived, thing's have changed... Talbot's Chainsaw has been around since the start of the game. It does damage outside of combat. This damage cannot be prevented/modified by combat effects. >>The fact that the damage from superior Rutor's Hand is treated as if from >>a strike in combat (official errata) may be confusing this issue. >confusing? You make me confused. OK. Tell me what to do differently. I'm trying to explain things as simply as the rules and the rulings will allow. The only reason thet Rutor's hand damage is treated as if from a strike in combat is that the damage is listed as being preventable. That card text in itself is a violation of the concept of Rutor's Hand as well as the mechanics of damage prevention. But, to support the printed card text, (since the superior's "preventable" damage had no legal means of being prevented), the Rules Team issued the errata saying that the damage was to be treated as if from a strike in combat - therefore combat effects could be used. >>Thankfully, Sunrise Service has no such errata. So, combat effects (Merrill, >>Fire Dance, etc.) cannot be applied. >Yeah, right... Damage outside combat is always the same. That's right, it is. It's *all* unpreventable (unless explicit card text says that it is preventable and/or errata exists to that effect). >And I CAN prevent Pulled Fangs with nearly all prevent card,s since nearly >no prevent card specificcially tell's me that they MUST be used during strike >resoultion. I agree with you, but the rules team doesn't. Since the rules say that damage prevention cards can be played during strike resolution, the RT says that that is the only time they may be played. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> And I CAN prevent Pulled Fangs with nearly all prevent card,s since nearly >> no prevent card specificcially tell's me that they MUST be used during >> strike resoultion. >> > No you can't. you can only prevent damage in the damage >resolution phase. Check the rulebook. Argh, anyway... Pulled fangs should be played after the last adittional strike phase... i went to torpor today AFTER i had used my press.... The errata said that it used under "Press phase" =( =(

>>>Thankfully, Sunrise Service has no such errata. So, combat effects >>>(Merrill, Fire Dance, etc.) cannot be applied. >>Yeah, right... Damage outside combat is always the same. >That's right, it is. It's *all* unpreventable (unless explicit card text >says that it is preventable and/or errata exists to that effect). >>And I CAN prevent Pulled Fangs with nearly all prevent card,s since nearly >>no prevent card specificcially tell's me that they MUST be used during >>strike resoultion. >I agree with you, but the rules team doesn't. Since the rules say that >damage prevention cards can be played during strike resolution, the RT >says that that is the only time they may be played. So Mariel Lady thunder's damage is not preventible? And why do Wheter Control even declare that the damage is unpreventible? Even on CRYPTIC mISSION the card declare that the damage is not preventible... More to come, is there still any strike phase when someone do combat end's? i did not see any real answer to this... If you listen to me: * The combat end's during the strike phase, so there is no real strike resolution phase left in combat, since it has ended. * Catonic Fear is misspelled, and should be read "opposing minion takes 1 damage" instead of "opposing minion takes 1 damage during strike resolution". * With this, the round has not really ended since it's time for the press face, just after the last strike resolution. Therefore combat ENDS before drawing out the beast or pulled fangs can do damage... * If one of the vampires go to torpor during strike phase its should be impossible to use pulled fangs, or take damage from Drawing Out The beast, since the combat end's emidetly after one of the vampires go to torpor. The trouble with this is the use of card's like Taste Of Vitae or Decapacitate.