Charming Lobby Clarification

Hi all, I'm having a problem sorting through the different clarifications on Charming Lobby (there are lots!). Can you help me sort it out? Charming Lobby Action Presence +1 stealth political action. This vampire calls a referendum listed on a political action card in your hand (play that card) or allowed by an effect in play. If the referendum passes, then the next referendum called by any vampire thereafter passes automatically. As above, and this vampire gains 2 votes in that first referendum. Okay, so here was the scenario. Ventrue A called a ConBoon with Charming Lobby. He has a Legendary Vampire on him that can be voted away with a political action. Ventrue B tries to call a KRC but is blocked. Turn ends, play passes to the Ventrue's prey. Question: Does the Charming Lobby stay on the table since B was blocked, and until a vampire successfully gets to a vote? Or does it go away since B 'called' a KRC but was blocked before he got there? Side question: does A play the PA card at the time of Charming Lobby, and if CL is blocked, take it back into his hand? Thanks for your help! Famine

On Dec 8, 1:44 pm, FhmFamine wrote: > Charming Lobby > Action > Presence > +1 stealth political action. > This vampire calls a referendum listed on a political action card in > your hand (play that card) or allowed by an effect in play. If the > referendum passes, then the next referendum called by any vampire > thereafter passes automatically. > As above, and this vampire gains 2 votes in that first referendum. > Okay, so here was the scenario. Ventrue A called a ConBoon with > Charming Lobby. He has a Legendary Vampire on him that can be voted > away with a political action. Ventrue B tries to call a KRC but is > blocked. Turn ends, play passes to the Ventrue's prey. > Question: Does the Charming Lobby stay on the table since B was > blocked, and until a vampire successfully gets to a vote? Yes. Only referendum's matter, action attempts are not part of it. > Or does it > go away since B 'called' a KRC but was blocked before he got there? No. No referendum was called. > Side question: does A play the PA card at the time of Charming Lobby, > and if CL is blocked, take it back into his hand? No. The political action is announced but not displayed. It remains in the hand until the action is successful.

[ quoted text not captured ] It's only convention and 'ease of letting people know' that people reveal the PA they are playing with Charming Lobby.

Juggernaut1981 wrote: > It's only convention and 'ease of letting people know' that > people reveal the PA they are playing with Charming Lobby. Why is the reveal necessary? Unless you play with jerks, it isn't. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

On Dec 8, 10:50 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > Juggernaut1981 wrote: > > It's only convention and 'ease of letting people know' that > > people reveal the PA they are playing with Charming Lobby. > > Why is the reveal necessary? Unless you play with jerks, it isn't. The reveal isn't necessary. It's simply a convenient way of making the declaration as to which referendum you'll be calling, and that declaration is necessary.

[ quoted text not captured ] Never said it was necessary... "It's only *convention*..." Plus it does prevent new players from trying to attempt an action they cannot legally complete (i.e. not realising you can't play Charming Lobby without that specific PA in your hand at the declaration of Charming Lobby). Do I play with Jerks? Maybe... are you coming to Sydney anytime soon??? :p :p :p

[ quoted text not captured ] Follow up question.. Strictly speaking is that allowed by the rules ie revealing the PA- card when playing Charming Lobby? Putting the card face down on the table as you play Charming lobby and before you replace CL seems like the most proper way of doing it. Since your fellow players shouldn´t be able to take your word for it when you declare what referendum you will play when you play charming lobby(?) cheers Tomas

On Dec 9, 9:57 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > On 9 Dec, 06:12, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Dec 8, 10:50 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > > > Juggernaut1981 wrote: > > > > It's only convention and 'ease of letting people know' that > > > > people reveal the PA they are playing with Charming Lobby. > > > > Why is the reveal necessary? Unless you play with jerks, it isn't. > > > The reveal isn't necessary. It's simply a convenient way of making the > > declaration as to which referendum you'll be calling, and that > > declaration is necessary. > > Follow up question.. > > Strictly speaking is that allowed by the rules ie revealing the PA- > card when playing Charming Lobby? Not really. It'd be showing a card from your hand, which isn't allowed. Suppose you announce Charming Lobby of Consanguineous Boon, show a V:TES Consanguineous Boon (with the red roses), and when the action is successful, play a 3rd Ed Con Boon: argumentation about "the next Con Boon that you have in your hand" is tinged with the information you gave. > Putting the card face down on the table as you play Charming lobby and > before you replace CL seems like the most proper way of doing it. > Since your fellow players shouldn´t be able to take your word for it > when you declare what referendum you will play when you play charming > lobby(?) The political action card must be in your hand when playing Charming Lobby (and choosing to call a referendum from a political action card in hand). Same as for Concealed Weapon + .44 Magnum, where the Magnum has to be in your hand if you want to conceal it. If the political action card isn't in your hand when the Charming Lobby resolves, then the action fizzles. The name of the political action card is part of the terms of the Charming Lobby action. It can't be changed in the course of the action. Fellow players should, must, and do take your word when declaring actions. > > cheers > > Tomas

[ quoted text not captured ] The most proper way of doing it is to keep the PA card in your hand with the rest of the cards in your hand. Play the CL. Fully announce the play of CL (including the referendum you will call should the action succeed). Replace the CL. Handle the action attempt. But, strictly speaking, there's no meaningful difference between that and simply dropping the PA card face-up with the CL, then "playing" that card when the action succeeds or discarding it when the action is blocked (and handling the odd case that requires other activity appropriately, trivially, by picking the card back up).

[ quoted text not captured ] Just to clarify a nit: in a tournament, I've always believed it was illegal to show unplayed cards out of your hand to other players in your game. In this case, I agree it would be reasonable enough to show the PA since your declaration of the PA must be one of the cards in your hand anyway. So assuming you were playing legally, declaring the PA is functionally equivalent to showing the PA. Thus, I'm just looking for confirmation that this is the only reason showing the card to other players is OK in this situation (and, I guess, any others in which you have to truthfully declare a card in your hand as a target). Fred

On 12/9/2010 2:31 AM, floppyzedolfin wrote: > On Dec 9, 9:57 am, Abdul alHazred<hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: >> Follow up question.. >> >> Strictly speaking is that allowed by the rules ie revealing the PA- >> card when playing Charming Lobby? > > Not really. It'd be showing a card from your hand, which isn't > allowed. > Suppose you announce Charming Lobby of Consanguineous Boon, show a > V:TES Consanguineous Boon (with the red roses), and when the action is > successful, play a 3rd Ed Con Boon: argumentation about "the next Con > Boon that you have in your hand" is tinged with the information you > gave. Actually, I would say the "illegal thing" happened when the player played a different Con Boon than the one he displayed when he announced the CL. Or at least, that's a perfectly reasonable interpretation that allows players to show the (must-be-truthfully-declared) PA card. Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. And yes, you can also show the card you intend to equip with Concealed Weapon (which will "remain" in your hand if the Concealed Weapon is canceled as it is played). That is, the "violation" has absolutely no impact on the game, other than the show of non-cheating, as you note. A little trickier is showing your Enhanced Senses in the same breath as your declaration of block attempt. In that case, you have violated the rules in a meaningful way, but not in any way that should be cause for a warning or other penalty