[Deck] Howling with the Animals

[Deck] Howling with the Animals Crypt: 2 Howler 8 cap ANI, SPI, PRE +1 strength, maneuver 1 The Siamese 7 cap ani, SPI, PRE +1 bleed 1 Cynthia Ingold 6 cap ani, SPI, pre +1 strengh with camarilla 1 Juanita Santiago 4 cap ani, spi, pre 1 Leon 3 cap ani, for 1 Wendy Wade 3 cap ani, aus 1 Tommy 3 cap ani, pot 1 Gillian Krader 2 cap ani, dem 1 Dani 2 cap ani 1 Viliam Andor 2 cap ani 1 Navar McClaren 1 cap ani Navar can't block an older vampire Masters: (18 cards) Effective Management - 5 Blood Doll - 5 Animalism - 3 Tribute to the Master - 3 The Hungry Coyote - 2 Spiritus (and some inferior Animalism) (19 cards) Swiftness of the Stag - 6 Speak with Spirits - 4 Falcon's Eye - 4 Chameleon's Colors - 3 Engling Fury - 2 Animalism: (23 cards) Aid from Bats - 10 Carrion Crows - 10 Cat's Guidance - 3 Presence: (4 cards) Majesty - 4 Other cards: (21 cards) Computer Hacking - 14 Dodge - 7 Equipment: (3 cards) Leather Jacket - 2 Palatial Estate - 1 I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? Thanks, Howard

>[Deck] Howling with the Animals > >Crypt: > >2 Howler 8 cap ANI, SPI, PRE +1 strength, maneuver >1 The Siamese 7 cap ani, SPI, PRE +1 bleed >1 Cynthia Ingold 6 cap ani, SPI, pre +1 strengh with camarilla >1 Juanita Santiago 4 cap ani, spi, pre >1 Leon 3 cap ani, for >1 Wendy Wade 3 cap ani, aus >1 Tommy 3 cap ani, pot >1 Gillian Krader 2 cap ani, dem >1 Dani 2 cap ani >1 Viliam Andor 2 cap ani >1 Navar McClaren 1 cap ani Navar can't block an older vampire I'll save comments on the crypt until the end. >Masters: (18 cards) > >Effective Management - 5 >Blood Doll - 5 >Animalism - 3 >Tribute to the Master - 3 >The Hungry Coyote - 2 Five Dolls and three Tributes may be necessary to survive a fierce predator, but it seems wrong somehow. I'd drop the Tributes for something else. Your crypt isn't Sabbat enough for two Coyotes, possibly not enough for one. >Spiritus (and some inferior Animalism) (19 cards) > >Swiftness of the Stag - 6 >Speak with Spirits - 4 >Falcon's Eye - 4 >Chameleon's Colors - 3 >Engling Fury - 2 Could focus more. I only play Stag hoping for stealth, I don't see where you need stealth nor can reliably make use of it with the crypt. Four Speaks are not enough "wake" effects for this deck. I'm no fan of Chameleon'ss. As this deck is currently a hybrid between Ahrimanes.dec and weenie Animalism, I'd probably just thin out some of these cards. Add back in some Forced Awakenings and Wakes. >Animalism: (23 cards) > >Aid from Bats - 10 >Carrion Crows - 10 >Cat's Guidance - 3 I'd consider a couple of Canine Hordes to deal with ranged weapons, unless you never see ranged weapons. Maybe a Rat's Warning or Guard Dogs or two. A couple of Raven Spys could be huge. >Presence: (4 cards) > >Majesty - 4 *The* Ahrimanes Presence combat card is Staredown. Inferior works with Crows. Superior gets you out of annoying fights. Or, to put it another way, Carrion Crows + Majesty is not a good combo. Or, drop these all together as you don't have enough vamps with Presence. >Other cards: (21 cards) > >Computer Hacking - 14 >Dodge - 7 For this deck, I think this is too many Hackings. I'd rather have some permanent bleed or, possibly, drop an Army of Rats to supplement bleeding. It's not that you wouldn't want the extra bleed that so many Hackings give but that I'd be concerned with choking on them. Don't see the need for Dodges at all. Everyone has Animalism; they can all fight to some degree. I like to play Tastes of Vitae with the Ahrimanes as I routinely burn through a lot of blood. >Equipment: (3 cards) > >Leather Jacket - 2 >Palatial Estate - 1 > > >I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm >kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not >play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? I mention above how this is a hybrid. While there might be a good Ahrimanes/weenie Animalism hybrid, my personal sense is that it's better to pick one or the other. With an Ahrimanes core, the Spiritus cards will be more useful and you can play more copies of the good ones. The Presence cards would make sense; could play some Enchant Kindreds for bleed, acceleration, and blood management. The Hungry Coyote becomes a better fit. Weenie Animalism is a good deck, but maybe you already know this and wanted to play Ahrimanes. As is, I see this deck having too many weaknesses against strong decks. Ability to block votes or stealthed bleeds is limited. No bounce. More intercept and "wakes" would deal with light stealth. Archon Investigation, Direct Intervention, Delaying Tactics, and Nose of the Hound come to mind as ways to deal with what you can't currently deal with (obviously, in different ways).

"HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote > I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm > kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not > play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? Something I've had some fun with is using Hidden Lurker with Howler (has obf) to enter combat after another minion was blocked. It gets around S:CE and with Carrion Crows in play can be a *very* nasty surprise to the blocking vampire. Check it out! (You need more Howlers though) Cheers, WES

"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:<abcch...@enews1.newsguy.com>... > "HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote > > > Any suggestions? > > Something I've had some fun with is using Hidden Lurker with Howler (has > obf) to enter combat after another minion was blocked. It gets around S:CE > and with Carrion Crows in play can be a *very* nasty surprise to the > blocking vampire. Check it out! > > (You need more Howlers though) > > Cheers, > WES Interesting idea... but does it work? I didn't think Carrion Crows would carry over to the next combat with another minion who played Hidden Lurker. Doesn't the Carrion Crows get discarded because it's a new combat with a new minion?

HD wrote: > Interesting idea... but does it work? I didn't think Carrion Crows > would carry over to the next combat with another minion who played > Hidden Lurker. Doesn't the Carrion Crows get discarded because it's a > new combat with a new minion? Carrion Crows does not carry over from one combat to the next, correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

I just played this deck last night in a one-on-one game. Although I was eventually able to sneak bleed my prey/preditor (!Salubri), I had some serious weaknesses. The game proved that your comments were all on target. cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) wrote in message > >[Deck] Howling with the Animals > > > >Crypt: > > > >2 Howler 8 cap ANI, SPI, PRE +1 strength, maneuver > >1 The Siamese 7 cap ani, SPI, PRE +1 bleed > >1 Cynthia Ingold 6 cap ani, SPI, pre +1 strengh with camarilla > >1 Juanita Santiago 4 cap ani, spi, pre > >1 Leon 3 cap ani, for > >1 Wendy Wade 3 cap ani, aus > >1 Tommy 3 cap ani, pot > >1 Gillian Krader 2 cap ani, dem > >1 Dani 2 cap ani > >1 Viliam Andor 2 cap ani > >1 Navar McClaren 1 cap ani Navar can't block an older vampire > > I'll save comments on the crypt until the end. > > >Masters: (18 cards) > > > >Effective Management - 5 > >Blood Doll - 5 > >Animalism - 3 > >Tribute to the Master - 3 > >The Hungry Coyote - 2 > > Five Dolls and three Tributes may be necessary to survive a fierce predator, > but it seems wrong somehow. I'd drop the Tributes for something else. Your > crypt isn't Sabbat enough for two Coyotes, possibly not enough for one. > I'll check Crypt Monger or that new Internet Tool that one of the players just developed. Maybe I can find some more weenie animalism Sabbat minions. You're right about the tributes. They aren't very useful in this deck. I only played with one Coyote, and it was pretty helpful. I was able to plump up some empty minions and hunt/blood doll others for a bloat that lead to a bit of a swarm effect with my transfers (Howler came out late and slowed that down though... then she was burned - arrgh!) > >Spiritus (and some inferior Animalism) (19 cards) > > > >Swiftness of the Stag - 6 > >Speak with Spirits - 4 > >Falcon's Eye - 4 > >Chameleon's Colors - 3 > >Engling Fury - 2 > > Could focus more. I only play Stag hoping for stealth, I don't see where you > need stealth nor can reliably make use of it with the crypt. Four Speaks are > not enough "wake" effects for this deck. I'm no fan of Chameleon'ss. > The Stag was useful in getting a few actions through (Palatial Estate). Especially since I was playing against a combat/intercept deck. ...run away! :o) But I may take a few of them out anyway. They don't help the rest of the animalism minions and weren't that crucial overall. More Speak with Spirits? - yes. ...maybe 1 or 2 more (WWEF might be better). Chameleon's Colors came in handy a few times, but it is costly. I may dump them for other manuever cards. > As this deck is currently a hybrid between Ahrimanes.dec and weenie Animalism, > I'd probably just thin out some of these cards. Add back in some Forced > Awakenings and Wakes. > Good idea. A few Wakes would have been helpful and too many Spiritus cards are no good if the Ahrimanes don't come out early or they get burned. > >Animalism: (23 cards) > > > >Aid from Bats - 10 > >Carrion Crows - 10 > >Cat's Guidance - 3 > > I'd consider a couple of Canine Hordes to deal with ranged weapons, unless you > never see ranged weapons. Maybe a Rat's Warning or Guard Dogs or two. > Canine Hordes would have been really helpful against the !Salubri. There was a lot of nasty agg. damage from weapons that I couldn't dodge. > A couple of Raven Spys could be huge. Good idea. It would have helped me block my prey equiping with weapons. That was a crucial aspect that I had no way to deal with. > >Presence: (4 cards) > > > >Majesty - 4 > > *The* Ahrimanes Presence combat card is Staredown. Inferior works with Crows. > Superior gets you out of annoying fights. Or, to put it another way, Carrion > Crows + Majesty is not a good combo. > > Or, drop these all together as you don't have enough vamps with Presence. > I may just dump them. It was useful to use Majesty at superior a couple of times, but my other dodges were actually not very useful (Vengence of Samiel? - can't be dodged). I think you're right, and I'm going to rework this - depending on the final crypt. > >Other cards: (21 cards) > > > >Computer Hacking - 14 > >Dodge - 7 > > For this deck, I think this is too many Hackings. I'd rather have some > permanent bleed or, possibly, drop an Army of Rats to supplement bleeding. > It's not that you wouldn't want the extra bleed that so many Hackings give but > that I'd be concerned with choking on them. > Yeah, the Hackings were a bit much. I didn't get hand jam, but was very close to it a few times. An Army of Rats would be useful, but I can't really defend it. Maybe with more Wakes and more intercept. > Don't see the need for Dodges at all. Everyone has Animalism; they can all > fight to some degree. The dodges worked out a few times. I bleed, dodged, and bleed again against tapped minions. But they didn't work against Vengence of Samiel at all. Manuevers would have been better (Fake Out?). > > I like to play Tastes of Vitae with the Ahrimanes as I routinely burn through a > lot of blood. Tastes might have been helpful, but I wasn't doing much damage. A flack jacket saved one of his weenie minions from my Aid From Bats several times (that was a little frustrating). He also had Fortitude on his other minions. Doh! > > >Equipment: (3 cards) > > > >Leather Jacket - 2 > >Palatial Estate - 1 > > > > > >I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm > >kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not > >play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? > > I mention above how this is a hybrid. While there might be a good > Ahrimanes/weenie Animalism hybrid, my personal sense is that it's better to > pick one or the other. You're probably right. I'm still going to mess around with this a bit, but it may never become a truly sucessful concept. With an Ahrimanes core, the Spiritus cards will be more > useful and you can play more copies of the good ones. The Presence cards would > make sense; could play some Enchant Kindreds for bleed, acceleration, and blood > management. The Hungry Coyote becomes a better fit. Weenie Animalism is a > good deck, but maybe you already know this and wanted to play Ahrimanes. That was the idea. Ahrimanes on their own seem a bit weak, and a weenie animalism/Ahrimanes combo sounded good. But it may not actually work... > > As is, I see this deck having too many weaknesses against strong decks. > Ability to block votes or stealthed bleeds is limited. No bounce. More > intercept and "wakes" would deal with light stealth. Archon Investigation, > Direct Intervention, Delaying Tactics, and Nose of the Hound come to mind as > ways to deal with what you can't currently deal with (obviously, in different > ways). I also needed more Carrion Crows. Often my only strike was Aid from Bats. Hit for one and run away. Not very scary. And I didn't get many Animalism Masters out, so most of my Carrion Crows strikes were only for one point of damage. Pretty lame, eh? The best thing for me to do was avoid combat as much as possible and try to sneek bleed with some stealth or bleed, run away, and bleed again with another minion using computer hacking. Some more manuevers would have been good too.

> > Something I've had some fun with is using Hidden Lurker with Howler (has > > obf) to enter combat after another minion was blocked. It gets around S:CE > > and with Carrion Crows in play can be a *very* nasty surprise to the > > blocking vampire. Check it out! > > Interesting idea... but does it work? I didn't think Carrion Crows > would carry over to the next combat with another minion who played > Hidden Lurker. Doesn't the Carrion Crows get discarded because it's a > new combat with a new minion? What I mean is that Howler should play Carrion Crows in the subsequent combat started with Hidden Lurker Cheers, WES.

"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:<abev6...@enews1.newsguy.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, I think I get it. Howler gets two damage from the Carrion Crows and two hand damage from her +1 strength... and there's no opposing strike because of the Fast Reaction. That's pretty cool. Is there a catch? What cards or actions can the other player use to get out of a Fast Reaction?

"HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c0922a66.02051...@posting.google.com... > Ok, I think I get it. Howler gets two damage from the Carrion Crows > and two hand damage from her +1 strength... and there's no opposing > strike because of the Fast Reaction. That's pretty cool. Is there a Yup. > catch? What cards or actions can the other player use to get out of a > Fast Reaction? Obedience. Damage prevention usually works pretty well also. Xian

hdma...@hotmail.com (HD) wrote in message news:<c0922a66.02050...@posting.google.com>... > [Deck] Howling with the Animals > > Crypt: > > 2 Howler 8 cap ANI, SPI, PRE +1 strength, maneuver > 1 The Siamese 7 cap ani, SPI, PRE +1 bleed > 1 Cynthia Ingold 6 cap ani, SPI, pre +1 strengh with camarilla > 1 Juanita Santiago 4 cap ani, spi, pre your problem starts right here... you're playing two decks... either one on it's own is okay [not great, but okay], but cramming the two together hamstrings them both... > 1 Leon 3 cap ani, for > 1 Wendy Wade 3 cap ani, aus > 1 Tommy 3 cap ani, pot > 1 Gillian Krader 2 cap ani, dem > 1 Dani 2 cap ani > 1 Viliam Andor 2 cap ani > 1 Navar McClaren 1 cap ani Navar can't block an older vampire if you're pushing the animalism aspect of this deck, why not just go in for the 5 caps with superior...? devin bisely calebros, the martyr nigel, the shunned bear paw and bear paw has the presence to match the ahrimanes... and he can be feral spirited... if i were redesigning the crypt [and focusing primarily on the animalism], i'd go: 3 howler 2 the siamese 2 cynthia ingold devin bisely calebros, the martyr nigel, the shunned bear paw jost werner > Masters: (18 cards) > > Effective Management - 5 5...?! two is suffiicient... > Blood Doll - 5 i'd say 4 is enough, or six if you really want to insure one shows early... 5 is like straddling the fence... > Animalism - 3 only in there because you're in dual-nature mode, i think... i've never believed that master: discipling cards are a very good idea except in weenie mono-discipline decks... which this deck is, halfway, i guess, but probably shouldn't be... if you were to change the crypt as i wrote above, you could go: 2 animalsim 2 presence > Tribute to the Master - 3 aaack... no sense in these... > The Hungry Coyote - 2 unless you combine the ahrimanes with a sabbat clan [as i ended up doing, using the !toreador], it's not focused enough to warrant this inclusion... if you do that, though, you're gonna want pentex loves you! > Spiritus (and some inferior Animalism) (19 cards) > > Swiftness of the Stag - 6 good card, good choice... > Speak with Spirits - 4 > Falcon's Eye - 4 yup, i'm down with this, too... > Chameleon's Colors - 3 this is a funny card... seems good when you look at it, but in practice, this cards sucks ass... it took me some months to finally give up on it -- it seems so good, until you end up with it in your hand... > Engling Fury - 2 more... easy to say, hard to do, i know -- good luck getting anyone to kick theirs in... > Animalism: (23 cards) > > Aid from Bats - 10 > Carrion Crows - 10 well, here's where the room to improve your deck is going to come from... way too many of both, here... personnaly, i'd go down to 6 of each, but since you want to be a dedicated fight deck, maybe you can drop down to 8... > Cat's Guidance - 3 more... 4, or 6... > Presence: (4 cards) > > Majesty - 4 yeah, these make sense... but this is kind of a poor substitution for wakes or forced awakenings... > Other cards: (21 cards) > Computer Hacking - 14 this is too many, even for a dedicated weenie animalism fight deck... i personally prefer presence bleed with the ahrimanes, but if you dropped down to 10, you could at least include 4 aire of elation, and make those ahrimanes [/bear paw] bleeds sting a little more once in a while... i've been working up an ahrimanes/!toreador bruise & bleed deck for quite some time now, and let me tell you, when the siamese legal manips, plays aire, then gets the pentex loves you! boost for a 7-smack, it feels pretty good... and the victim never fails to give a satisfying reponse of traumatized shock and surprise... > Dodge - 7 dude, what are you afraid of...? > Equipment: (3 cards) > > Leather Jacket - 2 dude, what are you afraid of...? > Palatial Estate - 1 you wouldn't need this if you had more engling fury... > I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm > kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not > play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? okay, keep this in mind: all my comments are based on the assumption [possibly erroneous] that you're trying to build a potentially tournament caliber deck... or else why bother tweaking and tuning, right..? i started a thread called "the defense module" a little while ago -- it was about something i happened upon while i was working up my ahrimanes deck... in a nutshell, what i determined was that the ahrimanes need bleed bounce, and they need access to [at least one] hunting ground to make the cut... anyway, i'll let you take the ball and run from there... peace -- -- khs

kevin scribner wrote: > > [Deck] Howling with the Animals > > > > Crypt: > > > > 2 Howler 8 cap ANI, SPI, PRE +1 strength, maneuver > > 1 The Siamese 7 cap ani, SPI, PRE +1 bleed > > 1 Cynthia Ingold 6 cap ani, SPI, pre +1 strengh with camarilla > > 1 Juanita Santiago 4 cap ani, spi, pre > > > your problem starts right here... you're playing two decks... either > one on it's own is okay [not great, but okay], but cramming the two > together hamstrings them both... > > > > 1 Leon 3 cap ani, for > > 1 Wendy Wade 3 cap ani, aus > > 1 Tommy 3 cap ani, pot > > 1 Gillian Krader 2 cap ani, dem > > 1 Dani 2 cap ani > > 1 Viliam Andor 2 cap ani > > 1 Navar McClaren 1 cap ani Navar can't block an older vampire > > > if you're pushing the animalism aspect of this deck, why not just go > in for the 5 caps with superior...? > > devin bisely > calebros, the martyr > nigel, the shunned > bear paw Good ideas. I'll take a look at these minions and see which ones fit. > and bear paw has the presence to match the ahrimanes... and he can be > feral spirited... > > if i were redesigning the crypt [and focusing primarily on the > animalism], i'd go: > > 3 howler > 2 the siamese > 2 cynthia ingold > devin bisely > calebros, the martyr > nigel, the shunned > bear paw > jost werner > That's a totally different crypt (deck?). I'll play around with it later, but it gets pretty far away from my original intention. I know the Animals/Arhimanes looks lame, but I want to see if I can make if work before shifting too radically. A couple more local games at least before I start over. > > Masters: (18 cards) > > > > Effective Management - 5 > > 5...?! two is suffiicient... You think so? Ok, I'll try it. > > Blood Doll - 5 > > i'd say 4 is enough, or six if you really want to insure one shows > early... 5 is like straddling the fence... 6 is probably better for what I'm doing. I love taking blood off these minions and then bringing out several more. Building up the swarm... > > Animalism - 3 > > only in there because you're in dual-nature mode, i think... i've > never believed that master: discipling cards are a very good idea > except in weenie mono-discipline decks... which this deck is, > halfway, i guess, but probably shouldn't be... if you were to change > the crypt as i wrote above, you could go: > > 2 animalsim > 2 presence > Ok, I'll do that when I switch to Jost and the others. But for now, I'm actually going to up the number of Animalism Masters. I'll explain more about this below. > > Tribute to the Master - 3 > > aaack... no sense in these... Right. Bad idea from the start. > > The Hungry Coyote - 2 > > unless you combine the ahrimanes with a sabbat clan [as i ended up > doing, using the !toreador], it's not focused enough to warrant this > inclusion... if you do that, though, you're gonna want pentex loves > you! Hmmm... I'm going to have to look at Pentex again. > > Spiritus (and some inferior Animalism) (19 cards) > > > > Swiftness of the Stag - 6 > > good card, good choice... > > > Speak with Spirits - 4 > > Falcon's Eye - 4 > > yup, i'm down with this, too... > > > Chameleon's Colors - 3 > > this is a funny card... seems good when you look at it, but in > practice, this cards sucks ass... it took me some months to finally > give up on it -- it seems so good, until you end up with it in your > hand... Yeah, I might dump these. From what I'm reading, no one seems to like Chameleon's Colors. It certainly LOOKS like a good card. ;o) > > Engling Fury - 2 > > more... easy to say, hard to do, i know -- good luck getting anyone > to kick theirs in... I wish that I had more > > Animalism: (23 cards) > > > > Aid from Bats - 10 > > Carrion Crows - 10 > > well, here's where the room to improve your deck is going to come > from... way too many of both, here... personnaly, i'd go down to 6 > of each, but since you want to be a dedicated fight deck, maybe you > can drop down to 8... Really? I was going to add a few more Carrion Crows. I'll check the deck and see why I thought that I needed more (maybe I took some out before I played it). > > Cat's Guidance - 3 > > more... 4, or 6... Yup. But only if I have minions with superior Animalism which means a different crypt or more Animalism Masters. Right? > > Presence: (4 cards) > > > > Majesty - 4 > > yeah, these make sense... but this is kind of a poor substitution for > wakes or forced awakenings... More wakes would be better > > Other cards: (21 cards) > > > Computer Hacking - 14 > > this is too many, even for a dedicated weenie animalism fight deck... Actually, it's not meant to be a fight deck. I'm just using the Aid from Bats to get away and the Carrion Crows to give them something to think about before they block. But fewer Computer Hackings is a good idea. > i personally prefer presence bleed with the ahrimanes, but if you > dropped down to 10, you could at least include 4 aire of elation, and > make those ahrimanes [/bear paw] bleeds sting a little more once in a > while... I'll try that later with Joust and Bear Paw. > i've been working up an ahrimanes/!toreador bruise & bleed deck for > quite some time now, and let me tell you, when the siamese legal > manips, plays aire, then gets the pentex loves you! boost for a > 7-smack, it feels pretty good... and the victim never fails to give a > satisfying reponse of traumatized shock and surprise... > > > Dodge - 7 > > dude, what are you afraid of...? I dumped these and replaced them with manuevers > > Equipment: (3 cards) > > > > Leather Jacket - 2 > > dude, what are you afraid of...? Are you sure these wouldn't be helpful? I thought it would be nice to give my bigger minions some sort of protection... or my little minion a way to survive agg. damage. No Leather Jackets at all?? > > Palatial Estate - 1 > > you wouldn't need this if you had more engling fury... If only I did... > > I have been trying to figure out how to make this deck work, but I'm > > kind of stuck at this point. I know it's not too original and may not > > play well, so I'm looking for ideas. Any suggestions? > > okay, keep this in mind: all my comments are based on the assumption > [possibly erroneous] that you're trying to build a potentially > tournament caliber deck... or else why bother tweaking and tuning, > right..? Exactlly. I would like all my decks to have some sort of tournament potential. That is always the idea, but most of them need a LOT of work. And I get stuck in a kind of "clan deck" mentality that's hard to shake. I like to keep the decks focused on a central theme if I can. Sometimes maintaining a storyline deck just doesn't work. That's why I want more card options.... > i started a thread called "the defense module" a little while ago -- > it was about something i happened upon while i was working up my > ahrimanes deck... I just read it and although I liked the general idea, I was a bit appalled by the nasty turn it took. I hope my comments don't further the arguement... > in a nutshell, what i determined was that the ahrimanes need bleed > bounce, and they need access to [at least one] hunting ground to make > the cut... Good idea. I like the thought of giving them more options. I tried to put them together with some Gangrel, but that didn't help much (too unfocused). Then I tried to use just the Ahrimanes, but that was too limiting (and I don't have enough Engling Fury). So now I'm giving this a try. I like the idea of working them in with the !Toreador. I'm going too into that. > anyway, i'll let you take the ball and run from there... Thanks for all your comments! You've given me a bunch of new ideas to work with. :o) > peace -- Good Policy. I hope you guys can work things out with Tony. I figure that a few beers at a pub would solve everything. If not, maybe a U.S. vs Europe team tournament. Who want's to meet in Amsterdamage... ;o) > -- khs Thanks! Howard PS I almost forgot to mention that I recently played this deck with a few changes and I practically swept the table. It was weird. I was eventually able to get out 8 minions and swarm bleed my prey. I did this by altering the original deck by taking out the extra Howler and Viliam Andor. I replaced them with Nettie Hale and Shannon Price. I also dumped a few Computer Hackings and doges, put in more manuvers (Fake Out), Added two Canine Hord for weapons (I didn't need them), put in more Blood Dolls, more Animalism Masters, and more Effective Management (five of each). I dumped all the other masters besides two Hungry Coyote. While everyone else was fighting and making each other weak, I kept using my Blood Dolls and hunting with the Coyote so that I could set up more minons to bring out. My preditor was a Tremere combat deck and my prey was something with the Gangrel (it never got off the ground). There was also a !Lasambra deck and a Tzimice deck at the table. The !Lasambra deck bled out the Tzimice and put pressure on my preditor. They fought it out while I swarm bled my prey (no real pressure on me). By the time I ousted my prey, the other two were down to just a couple minions each (lots of combat). I swarm bled some more with computer hackings and that was it... Now the question is, would it work again in a different circumstance?

"HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote > "Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote > > > > What I mean is that Howler should play Carrion Crows in the subsequent > > combat started with Hidden Lurker > > Ok, I think I get it. Howler gets two damage from the Carrion Crows > and two hand damage from her +1 strength... and there's no opposing > strike because of the Fast Reaction. That's pretty cool. Is there a > catch? What cards or actions can the other player use to get out of a > Fast Reaction? Not Fast Reaction... Hidden Lurker. Similar enough, but Hidden Lurker is superior I think. The only limitation that the opposing vampire has is that they cannot strike. They can still maneuver, which is not great against Howler who has an inherent free maneuver. They can play damage prevention cards, which won't usually help all that well against environmental damage sources, depending on the card. It's just a nice little surprise that has worked well for me. When people avoid fighting with Howler, I need to make them reconsider :) Cheers, WES

Xian wrote: > > catch? What cards or actions can the other player use to get out of a > > Fast Reaction? > > Obedience. Damage prevention usually works pretty well also. Difficult to Obedience out of a Fast Reaction, since the vampire that would want to play Obedience is the acting vampire. [ quoted text not captured ]