Best combat discipline found with Aus

So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt. I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL Guns might have possibilities. AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? Other suggestions? -- Super Fun Cards http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/ auct...@superfuncards.com

"librarian" <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote in message news:LTPnj.41409$Wt7....@newsfe14.phx... > So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 > stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). Efficient: play with Obeah and steal their minions with Spirit Marionette. It's amazing how many things your prey will find to do with his minions once he sees someone stolen, robbed of his blood and equipment (using Heidelburg) and involuntarily playing Daring the Dawn at inferior (use Fortitude skill cards if necessary). Your Nose of the Hounds will always have targets. Less efficient: Mind Numbs or the Quietus version of Principia Discordia (seems like there's one or two other's I'm forgetting...) Probably too many moving parts, though. This kind of stuff is likely easier to use by just switching gears and bleeding with the Spirit Marionettes when your prey starts tapping himself out. Fred

librarian wrote: > So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 > stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). > > But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I > am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt. > I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL > Guns might have possibilities. > > AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? > > Other suggestions? You know, replying to myself, what I have found as I start to think about using Nose at aus, is that it's even better to use aus as defense, since you have more control over what strike you use. Maybe you use just sprinkle in a few Nose's for certain targets. best - chris [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jan 29, 4:52 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 > stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). > > But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I > am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt. > I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL > Guns might have possibilities. > > AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? > > Other suggestions? I imagine Aus/Cel would work quite well. You've seen the ol' aus/cel/ for anarch deck enough times, I think, and that one's very rough around the edges. Heaps of Nose, Diversion, TT, Groundfighting. The crypt could be smaller, but I'm a sucker for Owain. Aus/Pot doesn't work well? I suppose it would have some weak spots. But the pieces are there: Bricklaying to tap, Nose to rush, Slam gets you another maneuver, and Grapple. All with inferiors except the Slam maneuver. It wouldn't be brilliant, but you're talking about an Aus rush deck after all :-D I've always thought an Osebo deck should work quite well, at least theoretically, but the crypt never quite comes together for me.

[ quoted text not captured ] You know Rob, my aus/pot deck always seemed to run into better combat. Especially agg poke. There aren't many small aus/pot vamps, and larger ones are too expensive to get killed by hitback. I always tried to cram in intercept and bounce. Maybe that was my problem. Just focus on rush. best - chris [ quoted text not captured ]

Howdy, On Jan 29, 4:52 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 > stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). > > But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I > am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt. > I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL > Guns might have possibilities. > > AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? > > Other suggestions? AUS/THA seems like the obvious place to start. Nose + TT = second round, and a maneuver on the first so you can safely Theft. Lots o' 5- cap and smaller vamps too. You don't have to rely on the rush side, of course, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have it. Alex

Is Valerean totally unplayable? Also AUS/THA in heavy fortitude metagame I think could be good.

IC-O...@yandex.ru writes: > Is Valerean totally unplayable? Certainly not. It may not be tier 1, but after Legacies of Blood, it's certainly playable. Try Armor of Caine's Fury + Trap. Weighed Walking Stick + Sword of the Righteous. Concealed Kerries and Laibon !Salubri. Aversion is wonderful. But if you go down the Valeren road, ditch Nose of the Hound and use the best rush card in the game: Sense Death. HG -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

Janne Hägglund wrote: > IC-O...@yandex.ru writes: > > >>Is Valerean totally unplayable? > > > Certainly not. It may not be tier 1, but after Legacies of Blood, it's > certainly playable. Try Armor of Caine's Fury + Trap. Weighed Walking Stick > + Sword of the Righteous. Concealed Kerries and Laibon !Salubri. Aversion > is wonderful. > > But if you go down the Valeren road, ditch Nose of the Hound and use the best > rush card in the game: Sense Death. > > > HG > As well as the walking stick of the righteous there is also the garotte of theb righteous or even the chainsaw of the righteous. Superior Blissful agony is an interesting sideline as well.

On Jan 29, 10:10 pm, crispyfloss <crispyfl...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've always thought an Osebo deck should work quite well, at least > theoretically, but the crypt never quite comes together for me. Yeah, they suffer from having a dubious crypt selection and that Auspex doesn't really help you oust anyone so much (Pulse being an expensive and not fantastic exception for AUS). So you can make a reasonably good intercept fight deck, but intercept fight decks don't win so much. And you can just make a pretty straight forward Rush deck with Telepathic Misdirection for bounce, but the crypt isn't great, is kinda big, and POT/dom works much better and has a better crypt. It isn't that hard to use them as part of a pot/aus crypt--you can get a pretty weenified pot/aus crypt: -David Morgan (3) pot, aus -Gengis (3) pot, aus -Kamaria (3) pot, aus -Ismita (4) pot, aus -Mariano Pomposo (4) pot, aus -Henry Johnson (4) pot, aus But you don't get AUS in the mix till Kisha Bhimji (5), and don't get AUS, POT till Homa (6) and then Jeremy McNeil (7) and Khalu (7). So some sort of weenie pot/aus deck has a crypt waiting for it, but really, what are you going to do with pot/aus weenies? Bounceless light intercept and Sewer Lids maybe? -Peter

> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1 > stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped). > > But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I > am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt. > I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL > Guns might have possibilities. > > AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? > > Other suggestions? AUS + Black Hand Psychic Assault + Target Vitals

[ quoted text not captured ] Exactly. I struggled with this for a *very* long time. It may be more viable now with the advent of Target Vitals. And maybe focus on aus/POT - don't worry about intercept, just use Nose for Rush. Your crypt choices get only slightly better: Terry and Uzoma at (5) (and Pugfar, but because he's a slave, useless). Heck, with the advent of the Aim cards, go with something even more ridiculous like a weenie aus rush deck, sprinkled with very slight bounce. Deck Name: Spies Everywhere Created By: shorb Description: Weenies block and rush, use Target Vitals to make their strikes really count. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 6, Max: 16, Avg: 2.83) --------------------------------------------- 2 Franciscus aus 1 Caitiff 1 Dieter Kleist aus 2 Toreador 2 Brazil aus 2 Malkavian 1 Zoe cel obf AUS 3 Malkavian 1 Isabel de Leon AUS 3 Toreador 1 Remilliard pre AUS 4 Toreador Antitribu 1 Idalia dem AUS 4 Malkavian Antitribu 1 Dorian Strack cel AUS 4 Toreador 1 Aleph dom AUS 4 Malkavian 1 Richard Tauber tha AUS 4 Tremere Antitribu Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (16 cards) 1 Asylum Hunting Ground 4 Blood Doll 1 Channel 10 1 Club Zombie 1 Elder Library 1 KRCG News Radio 1 Life Boon 1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The 2 Smiling Jack, The Anarch 2 Tribute to the Master 1 WMRH Talk Radio Action (11 cards) 7 Computer Hacking 4 Nose of the Hound Action Modifier (4 cards) 4 Leverage Political Action (1 cards) 1 Ancilla Empowerment Reaction (15 cards) 1 Delaying Tactics 4 Eagle`s Sight 5 On the Qui Vive 5 Telepathic Misdirection Combat (41 cards) 4 Boxed In 4 Fake Out 6 Lucky Blow 1 Target Hand 1 Target Head 1 Target Leg 12 Target Vitals 6 Weighted Walking Stick 6 Zip Gun Ally (2 cards) 1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) 1 Ossian This deck was last saved at 9:20:18 AM on 1/30/2008 Look, I tried to make it, and still came up adding intercept. best - chris [ quoted text not captured ]

librarian wrote: > Deck Name: Spies Everywhere > > > Political Action (1 cards) > 1 Ancilla Empowerment > This should be an Autarkis... [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] > aucti...@superfuncards.com AUS THA is strong, with a gorgeous crypt in group 3. Run heavy Theft or Magic of the Smith and weapons. Telepathic Tracking is a great set- up for Walk of Flame if that's your bag. If you want something a little more trumpy I suggest AUS CEL, .44 Magnums, and a pile of Psyche! Of course you'll end up either dropping the AUS or turning it into a wall deck. -- Dorrinal Blackmantle Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City

In article <on2oj.17509$4H1....@newsfe07.phx>, librarian <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > Exactly. I struggled with this for a *very* long time. It may be more > viable now with the advent of Target Vitals. And maybe focus on aus/POT > - don't worry about intercept, just use Nose for Rush. Your crypt > choices get only slightly better: Terry and Uzoma at (5) (and Pugfar, > but because he's a slave, useless). Heh. But if you aren't using AUS for bounce, I'm unconvinced that the aus is really helping that much--the Nose of the Hound (which started all of this :-) is good and all, but I don't know if it is good enough to justify hobbling the whole deck just so you can use them instead of, like, Harass (which is actually easier to play across the board although lacking the stealth). > Deck Name: Spies Everywhere > Created By: shorb > Description: Weenies block and rush, use Target Vitals to make their > strikes really count. The deck is certainly interesting, but still, I'm not convinced that the aus is actually doing you any good in and of itself--it looks like it could be pretty much *any* weenie discipline and doing the same thing. There are, what, 5 bounce and 4 Eagle's Sight and 4 Nose? Why not just go weenie dominate, do the same thing but not even need a superior discipline, turn the bounce and intercept into deflection, and the Nose into Harass? And then the Hackings and Leverages could be better bleed cards. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "Find hungry samurai." -The Old Man

So I threw together this deck as a sketch based on this discussion. Probably not so good. But maybe? 1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel 1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel 2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT 2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT 2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot 1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel 1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot 1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot 1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot 4x Blood Doll 3x Wash 2x Fame 1x Dreams 1x Vist from the Capuchin 8x Nose of the Hound 8x Telepathic Misdirection 8x Ancestor's Insight 4x Telepathic Tracking 8x Flash 6x Pursuit 4x Blur 8x Sewer Lid 4x Stunt Bike 4x Thrown Gate 8x Wake 4x Taste 4x Desert Eagle 1x Osebo Kholo Maybe it'll work? Maybe it'll choke on useless? -Peter

If you are going the AUS for defense route then the AUS / ANI is a powerful combo. Pack Alpha some raven spies and murder of crows then carrion crows and use an aid from bats to go to long and strike for one. So you are hitting for 2+ at long. Press and do it again. Sprinkle a few Canine Hordes to get ride of any dangerous weapons with first strike. Heck you can use Nose to get into combat and you have an additional maneuver to get to long. You can even strike with Psychic Assault. Course I use this with Tzimisce (Dragos) or Ahrimans (Howler). -Tony

Sense Death is cool, and I forgot about it (. But you might want to multi rush. Also "Aura Reading" is usefull. I put at least two in each deck that have AUS. I played fun deck with Saulot Sense death/ Nose of the Hound +Serenading the Kami+Aura Reading/Vitae block/Weather Control +Anesthetic Touch/Blood Fury+Taste of Vitae+Telephatic Tracking. Very card Intensive but fun to play ^)

> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? Why is this good? If you play CF + TV + TT you pay two blood to do zero damage, and you move on to another round. TT won't allow the CF damage to happen. But I guess I misunderstand how you intend to use the combo.

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm pretty sure it works like this: CF does damage whenever combat happens to end, even if it's not right away. Now if you were to, say, Psyche after combat ended, you'd lose the after combat effect. But when you play TT, combat doesn't end yet, and the CF damage is saved up for later. And since combat ends immediately after your strike, and then continues with a new round, your opponent's strikes never get a chance to resolve. Still extremely silly, if you ask me, but I've only seen the deck *try* to work - it ended up getting screwed by Grapples and other bad news.

On Jan 30, 10:42 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > So some sort of weenie pot/aus deck has a crypt waiting for it, but > really, what are you going to do with pot/aus weenies? Bounceless > light intercept and Sewer Lids maybe? Take the standard mono-potence library. Rip out the Computer Hacks. Replace with Revelations. Strip out the key combat defense cards of your prey (or whatever) and rush rush rush. -- David Cherryholmes

Chris Berger wrote: > On Jan 31, 7:42 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote: >>> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking? >> Why is this good? If you play CF + TV + TT you pay two blood to do >> zero damage, and you move on to another round. TT won't allow the CF >> damage to happen. But I guess I misunderstand how you intend to use >> the combo. > > I'm pretty sure it works like this: CF does damage whenever combat > happens to end, even if it's not right away. No. If it's not right away, then the damage from CF is lost.

On Jan 31, 9:22 am, bluedevil <david.cherryhol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Take the standard mono-potence library. Rip out the Computer Hacks. > Replace with Revelations. Strip out the key combat defense cards of > your prey (or whatever) and rush rush rush. Hmm. That might work out ok. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, then, either I have no idea what that deck I saw was trying to do, or else neither did the guy that built it. I'm assuming the same ruling applies to Riposte and to Arianne, though there doesn't seem to be a general ruling listed on the WW page, and there are no specific rulings for those cards, unlike specific rulings for CF and Rotschreck. I don't want to get into a big argument or anything over this, since it's not my deck, and I think the concept is silly even if it works, but this is the RTR that I believe is applied to CF (and by extension to Riposte and Arianne) to make them fizzle if combat is continued (as opposed to "restarted", which would be a difference matter): - Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after combat (see Majesty ruling above). - If an effect resolves and sets up an effect to be resolved later (e.g., Undead Persistence's torpor effect or Siren's Lure's combat), then the effect will not be canceled by "interruptions" (extending combat/ starting combat/etc.). As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte. Specifically, the wording on CF is "inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends". The "once combat ends" part seems to be setting up an effect to be resolved later. It really shouldn't matter if later is right after this strike resolves, or 5 minutes from now when combat really *does* end.

In message <faa91659-79d3-4b12...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be >resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte. They don't. When they resolve, combat ends and damage is done. The resolution is interrupted by TT, Psyche! etc. This is in contrast to, say, Undead Persistence where the card has fully resolved already, and an effect has been set up to resolve later. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Chris Berger wrote: > As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be > resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte. No. The effect is part of the resolution of the card. During strike resolution (the resolution of the card), CF ends combat and inflicts a damage. > Specifically, the wording on CF is "inflict 1 damage to the opposing > minion once combat ends". The "once combat ends" part seems to be > setting up an effect to be resolved later. It's clarifying the order in which "end combat" and "take damage" are applied. But bother are "during the resolution of this effect".

On Jan 30, 8:53 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > So I threw together this deck as a sketch based on this discussion. > Probably not so good. But maybe? For what it is worth, I played this deck twice last night: -Game 1: My prey was a weenie obf/computer hacking deck in a 4 player game. I was endlessly foiled by, get this, Back Flips and disguised Flash Grenades. And then Watenda for the extra humiliation. It was ridiculous. Yet totally hysterical. Weenie Obf sweeps the table, killing me last. -Game 2: My prey was some kind of Assamite deck in a 5 player game. I ended up doing well, as the other guy at the table doing well was a CHI/DEM deck that conviniently locked down one of my prey's vampires, and eventually one of my predator's vampires, with Sensory Deprivation. I end up getting a 3VP table win. So not horrible in its first go. > 1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel > 1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel > 2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT > 2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT > 2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot > 1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel > 1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot > 1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot > 1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot Crypt isn't bad. I wanna replace regular Jemery McNeil with a second Advanced. Yeah, I can't get the merge action going, but the built in Rush is significant. > 4x Blood Doll > 3x Wash > 2x Fame > 1x Dreams > 1x Vist from the Capuchin Taking out the Wash. Replacing them with an Ancestor Spirit (perma +1 bleed) and a Haven Uncovered (maybe a Frontal Assault?). And 1 more minion card. > 8x Nose of the Hound > 8x Telepathic Misdirection > 8x Ancestor's Insight > 4x Telepathic Tracking > 8x Flash > 6x Pursuit > 4x Blur > 8x Sewer Lid > 4x Stunt Bike > 4x Thrown Gate > 8x Wake > 4x Taste > 4x Desert Eagle > 1x Osebo Kholo Removing Osebo Kholo, 2 Ancestor's Insight and putting in 4x Quicken Sight. All in all, I wasn't totally horrified by the performance. And I like getting some mileage out of the Osebo. -Peter

On Feb 3, 6:27 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > 1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel > > 1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel > > 2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT > > 2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT > > 2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot > > 1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel > > 1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot > > 1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot > > 1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot > > Crypt isn't bad. I wanna replace regular Jemery McNeil with a second > Advanced. Yeah, I can't get the merge action going, but the built in > Rush is significant. Unless the ruling on Epiphany has gotten changed, you could run a number of those. Any deck I'd want to merge anyone, it would be so tempting to run a minimum of 2 copies. > > 4x Blood Doll > > 3x Wash > > 2x Fame > > 1x Dreams > > 1x Vist from the Capuchin > > Taking out the Wash. Replacing them with an Ancestor Spirit (perma +1 > bleed) and a Haven Uncovered (maybe a Frontal Assault?). And 1 more > minion card. Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better use of the master phase. I'd even play some skill cards. You may survive some random bloodhunt or you may draw them. Pursuit, Blur, Thrown Gate, and Stunt Cycle are all hurting at inferior. > > 8x Nose of the Hound > > 8x Telepathic Misdirection > > 8x Ancestor's Insight > > 4x Telepathic Tracking > > 8x Flash > > 6x Pursuit > > 4x Blur > > 8x Sewer Lid > > 4x Stunt Bike > > 4x Thrown Gate > > 8x Wake > > 4x Taste > > 4x Desert Eagle > > 1x Osebo Kholo Speaking of those cards hurting at inferior, how about losing the Stunt Cycles and maybe some Thrown Gates for some sort of dodge (again, much better if you have CEL for the likes of Side Strike or Sideslip or Acrobatics) and upping the number of Telepathic Trackings. > Removing Osebo Kholo, 2 Ancestor's Insight and putting in 4x Quicken > Sight. One theory I haven't done much with is the idea of establishing a solid voting presence in combat decks. Nevermind diablerie, it helps a ton to get casual benefits rather than casual pain from vote decks. Of course, what the vote deck should do is blow these sorts of decks off the table, but I so rarely see that sort of thinking. Anyway, not suggesting you keep the Kholo so much as have more of a plan for votes from Delaying Tacticsing the Reckless Agitations to DIing the random annoyances. > All in all, I wasn't totally horrified by the performance. And I like > getting some mileage out of the Osebo. Mostly, I'd want to add some permanentness to the deck from blood gain, to bleed, to whatever and thin out some of the highly redundant combat. As it stands, it comes across as highly inflexible, though Quicken Sight helps some with that. A copy or two of Legend of the Leopard wouldn't be out of place either. You can pretend they are extra rush cards. > -Peter

> Unless the ruling on Epiphany has gotten changed, you could run a > number of those. Any deck I'd want to merge anyone, it would be so > tempting to run a minimum of 2 copies. I think in the long run, the merge isn't really important--I mean, it is nice to get the 2 votes, but I think I'd be better of with two of the guys who can rush. Which then leads me to thinking "Huh. Why aren't I just using Massassi instead?", as she has built in Rush (with a manuever), is Laibon, *and* has CEL. All for 1 more point. But the line between an 8 cap and a 9 cap seems significant in my head. But maybe if I were smart, I'd just go with Massassi instead. > Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are > playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck > could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you > should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better > use of the master phase. Rush tech means low masters to avoid jamming. And also means you have the fewer masters more often. You cycle a lot of cards. So you don't want a lot of masters. As they jam up the engine. But as you cycle a lot of cards, you see the masters you have more often anyway. Especially with Dreams and/or Visit (which should proabbly be a second Dreams instead, but I think I ran out of Dreams) > I'd even play some skill cards. You may > survive some random bloodhunt or you may draw them. Pursuit, Blur, > Thrown Gate, and Stunt Cycle are all hurting at inferior. Sure, but there is enough of everything to make it all work out ok-- plenty of POT (7). Not enough CEL (4) to be worth worry about having it (i.e. I plan on only using cel, but if I get some use out of CEL, awesome!). Consequently, I swapped out the Pursuits for a couple more Flash, a couple more Telepathic Tracking, and turned the 4 Blur into 6 Acrobatics (most of the time, I won't have CEL, so it is only getting me 1 additional anyway; I don't have a metric ton of strikes, so getting 3 off in a row is unlikely, unless I have a gun; the occasional Dodge is probably a good thing to be able to take advantage of, I figure). > > > > 8x Nose of the Hound > Speaking of those cards hurting at inferior, how about losing the > Stunt Cycles and maybe some Thrown Gates for some sort of dodge > (again, much better if you have CEL for the likes of Side Strike or > Sideslip or Acrobatics) and upping the number of Telepathic Trackings. Yeah, I thought about ditching the Stunt Cycles, but really, at inferior, they aren't much worse than at superior (they do 3 damage and prevent 1, which is great against, like, Ivory Bow tech, and they still get foiled by cel in any case)--maybe now that I have some Dodges in there, swapping them for more Sewer Lids is probably the way to go. The Gates are in there just for the occasional extra manuever. But yeah, I like the dodge option from Acrobatics. > One theory I haven't done much with is the idea of establishing a > solid voting presence in combat decks. Nevermind diablerie, it helps > a ton to get casual benefits rather than casual pain from vote decks. > Of course, what the vote deck should do is blow these sorts of decks > off the table, but I so rarely see that sort of thinking. Oh, sure--Eurobrujah are great for that. But in this case, I think the 1 prayer card of Kholo is a tad dubious. Won't come up in hand much, even when it does, it often won't get any play at all. > Mostly, I'd want to add some permanentness to the deck from blood > gain, to bleed, to whatever and thin out some of the highly redundant > combat. As it stands, it comes across as highly inflexible, though > Quicken Sight helps some with that. Taste works for blood gain (being at long all the time helps a lot with blood loss, too). The combat is reasonably effective in most situations. It bounces a lot. It can light intercept. It has reasonable ousting potential. Some permanent combat (guns). Seems pretty flexible to me :-) > A copy or two of Legend of the Leopard wouldn't be out of place > either. You can pretend they are extra rush cards. Hmm. Interesting. -Peter

On Feb 3, 11:28 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are > > playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck > > could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you > > should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better > > use of the master phase. > > Rush tech means low masters to avoid jamming. And also means you have > the fewer masters more often. You cycle a lot of cards. So you don't > want a lot of masters. As they jam up the engine. But as you cycle a > lot of cards, you see the masters you have more often anyway. > Especially with Dreams and/or Visit (which should proabbly be a second > Dreams instead, but I think I ran out of Dreams) You only had 8 rushes and one copy of a vampire with built in rush - it's not much of a rush deck; adding intercept won't make it more so, either. As it stands, it's only a rush deck because it isn't much of anything else (has some theoretical bruise bleed angle with Insight). Add some intercept (like you intend) and it's an intercept combat deck with Nose of the Hound for casual rush. And, the point I was getting at is the combat is too card intensive currently. The less the deck is thought of as a rush deck, the less need it has to win combats and the more slots that can be spent on something better, like masters. BTW, any particular reason not to play Dominique Santo Paulo?

On Feb 3, 3:06 pm, sule...@aol.com wrote: > You only had 8 rushes and one copy of a vampire with built in rush - > it's not much of a rush deck; adding intercept won't make it more so, > either. Yeah, that's why I added in a Haven Uncovered and 4 Quicken Sight--to get in more fights. That being said, I play in a very fighty environment, so the likelyhood of me sitting next to Enkidu in any given game is high :-) > And, the point I was getting at is the combat is too card intensive > currently. Not as much as you'd think. I mean, yeah, it is intensive, but not at all unreasonable for my money--the manuvers are necessary just to make the lids work (and the guns, for that matter). I could pare down the combat, but then: A) It wouldn't be remotely effective in combat. Unless it switches to all guns (which is many more problems in and of itself) or close range (different issues all together, and harder to do 3 damage just off of a Nose and a strike). B) It would get killed by other combat (which is a local issue more than a global one, I'm sure). > BTW, any particular reason not to play Dominique Santo Paulo? Probably should, really. -Peter

On Feb 3, 3:06 pm, sule...@aol.com wrote: > You only had 8 rushes and one copy of a vampire with built in rush - > it's not much of a rush deck; As a strategic sidebar, with reliable bounce (i.e. Telepathic Misdirection) and light reduction (Ancestors Insight), it can be fighty but casual about it. The traditional (weenie?) rush deck tends to have, like, 12 rush actions and about 4 Haven Uncovered (rough average of rush capability for that sort of deck). Of those, if you end up with an aggressive predator, a handful of them end up going upstream (I'd say, like, a 3:2 split against a very aggressive predator). Without needing to go upstream (due to being able to bounce on a regular basis), you need fewer rush actions--enough to kill your prey's Famous vampire, enough to slow folks down as needed, but you can generally slow yourself down. 8x rush might have been a little lighter than necessary, but I suspect, 8, a Haven/Frontal, and some Quicken Sight, and I suspect it'll be plenty. -Peter