Just to check... LSJ

1) Is the following combo legitimate... Do an action... Get intercepted... Dawn Op it. Play Drawing out the Beast. Prevent any damage coming the other way (e.g. skin of Steel) Amaranth. Rub tummy with a satisfied *slurp*! 2) Imagine the above combo, but in this case the other Vamp plays S:CE, can you still amaranth the other Vamp after dealing the DotB damage? I only ask to check. DH Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > 1) Is the following combo legitimate... > Do an action... > Get intercepted... > Dawn Op it. > Play Drawing out the Beast. > Prevent any damage coming the other way (e.g. skin of Steel) > Amaranth. Yes. > 2) Imagine the above combo, but in this case the other Vamp plays S:CE, > can you still amaranth the other Vamp after dealing the DotB damage? Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <39BCF098...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > 1) Is the following combo legitimate... > > Do an action... > > Get intercepted... > > Dawn Op it. > > Play Drawing out the Beast. > > Prevent any damage coming the other way (e.g. skin of Steel) > > Amaranth. > > Yes. > > > 2) Imagine the above combo, but in this case the other Vamp plays > > S:CE, can you still amaranth the other Vamp after dealing the DotB > > damage? > > Yes. Yes?? NO. You can't play combat cards after a S:CE resolves per this: "Combat effects cannot be used after combat ends, so cannot be used after a strike to end combat has resolved (or after other effects that end combat, like Elysium: the Arboretum). [RTR 19980928]" Other than Psyche!, you cannot play combat cards, and Amaranth is a combat card. See the full text of the RTR as it was released here: "Strike: Combat Ends followed by combat cards. Combat cards cannot be played after combat. REVERSAL: This includes after a Srike: Combat Ends resolves. (So you cannot play Pulled Fangs, Disarm, Amaranth, etc. after a strike: end combat). Note: superior Psyche! is played at the end of combat (so, technically, after combat) by card text, so can still be used after a strike: end combat. Note 2: effects which are to occur at the end of a round/combat will still occur if the round/combat is ended by strike: combat ends (like superior Drawing out the Beast's damage and inferior Undead Persistence's torpor)." Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra [ quoted text not captured ]

>> > Dawn Op it. >> > Play Drawing out the Beast. >Yes?? NO. the above does unpreventable even with S:CE - if not then we've got a lot of peopel playing it wrong. anam

The Lasombra wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > 2) Imagine the above combo, but in this case the other Vamp plays > > > S:CE, can you still amaranth the other Vamp after dealing the DotB > > > damage? > > Yes. > You can't play combat cards after a S:CE resolves per this: > > "Combat effects cannot be used after combat ends, so cannot be used > after a strike to end combat has resolved (or after other effects that > end combat, like Elysium: the Arboretum). [RTR 19980928]" Right. Thanks for the catch. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] The question was whether Amaranth could be played - not whether DotB's damage was dealt. [ quoted text not captured ]

OK, with this established, here's another... Scenario is very similar to that mentioned before - a Dawn Opped combat and the acting vampire plays superior DotB. Then the acting vampire plays Illusions of the Kindred. Does the intercepting vampire take the agg damage: 1) straight away (as per card text - "...combat ends...")? ... Illusions of Kindred Type: Combat Blood Cost: 2 Prerequisite: chimerstry Card Text: Only usable before range is determined in combat. Combat ends. Move a vampire from the bottom of your crypt to your active region. He or she does not contest any other vampires or titles in play. The vampire has an amount of blood equal to half of his or her capacity (round down). Combat begins between the vampire and the opposing minion. Remove the vampire from the game at the end of combat. SUP: As above, but the vampire has an amount of blood equal to his or her capacity. 2) After the new combat with the new vampire pulled from the crypt? 3) not at all (because of something I have missed)? Cheers David H [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8pkotq$p3p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > OK, with this established, here's another... > > Scenario is very similar to that mentioned before - a Dawn Opped > combat and the acting vampire plays superior DotB. > > Then the acting vampire plays Illusions of the Kindred. > > Does the intercepting vampire take the agg damage: > > 1) straight away (as per card text - "...combat ends...")? ... As soon as the IotK card is played. (card text) Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Scenario is very similar to that mentioned before - a Dawn Opped > > combat and the acting vampire plays superior DotB. > > Then the acting vampire plays Illusions of the Kindred. > > Does the intercepting vampire take the agg damage: > > 1) straight away (as per card text - "...combat ends...")? ... > > As soon as the IotK card is played. (card text) Correct. (And the Illusionary vampire is removed from the game) -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

>> "Combat effects cannot be used after combat ends, so cannot be used >> after a strike to end combat has resolved (or after other effects that >> end combat, like Elysium: the Arboretum). [RTR 19980928]" > >Right. Thanks for the catch. > Hmm.. This seems a little muddled. Here is the series of events: Player A goes to bleed Player B attempts to block Block is successful Player A plays Dawn Operation <before range> Player A plays Drawing Out the Beast <range> <strikes> Player A plays Dodge Player B plays Majesty (SCE) <end of combat round> Player B goes to torpor <end of combat> Player B's vampire goes to torpor before the end of combat, not after. Surely it should be possible to play Amaranth at this point? Is the ruling such that 'no further cards or card effects can be applied after a strike: combat ends is successfully played? The way I see it, the effect of SCE wouldn't resolve completely until *after* the vampire goes to torpor - the vampire going to torpor implies that the combat round is not yet over. I have to say I'm a little confused.... Regards, Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London mi...@vekn.org.uk http://www.vtes.org.uk

Mike Nudd wrote: > >> "Combat effects cannot be used after combat ends, so cannot be used > >> after a strike to end combat has resolved (or after other effects that > >> end combat, like Elysium: the Arboretum). [RTR 19980928]" > Hmm.. This seems a little muddled. Here is the series of events: [Dawn Op, 'A' plays Drawing Out the Beast and S:CE] > Player B's vampire goes to torpor before the end of combat, not after. > Surely it should be possible to play Amaranth at this point? Is the > ruling such that 'no further cards or card effects can be applied > after a strike: combat ends is successfully played? The way I see it, > the effect of SCE wouldn't resolve completely until *after* the > vampire goes to torpor - the vampire going to torpor implies that the > combat round is not yet over. I have to say I'm a little confused.... The ruling indicates that Amaranth cannot be played after S:CE. S:CE "resolves" by moving to the end of combat, at which time DotB damage is done. A bit confusing, I'll admit. I'll pass this by the RT for further clarification. [ quoted text not captured ]