Tomb vs. Zillah

So, I went and compared Tomb of Ramses III to Zillah's Valley. 'Turns' is how many 4-transfer turns it takes to get the vampire out. 'Blood' is how much blood is on the vampire when it gets out. 'Ratio' is the ratio between how much pool you save vs. nominal capacity and how much blood the vampire is missing. 'Cost' is the sum of pool spent for Tomb (3) and pool transferred to the vampire. I am assuming transferring for max speed, not max cheapness. Capacity Turns Cost Blood Ratio* 8 1 7 4 1:4 9 2 7 4 2:5 10 2 8 5 2:5 11 2 8 5 3:6 So, the average Tomb recipient receives a 2-pool discount and pays a premium of 2 blood per pool saved. Not cost-effective as a way to get vampires on the cheap, but since Tomb saves you both time AND pool, some inefficiency on the blood side of the equation can perhaps be excused -- the vampire is, in essence, spending its own blood to influence itself out instead of your pool. Zillah's Valley saves you no pool at all. It costs pool. It's strictly a time saver, and as such there is no tradeoff in vampire blood -- the vampires come out full, one turn earlier, and the price you pay for this speed is a 1-pool premium. Tomb is clearly a superior choice for a deck that plans on getting out large numbers of expensive vampires out quickly and has the means to refill these vampires. Zillah's Valley is a superior choice for a deck that does not wish to devote space to refilling techniques and values blood-on-vampires more highly. I don't consider Tomb to be an inferior option to Zillah's in any way, only different. gomi -- Never make a promise or plan Take a little love where you can

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<aq9ujq$j7l$1...@panix3.panix.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Shouldn't you also include first turn InfoHigh? If your playing third plus, you can influnce out an IC, without extra pool and with fool blood. Plus, InfoHigh stays in play for other vampires to continue using its advantages. Also we must keep in mind that the extra transers help to influance "out" blood put to minions with Govern, etc. and bring other minions plus give them two pool. IMHO it's by far the best, the only drawback is that its also very popular and unique (a very bad combination).

Uriel wrote: || Shouldn't you also include first turn InfoHigh? If your playing || third plus, you can influnce out an IC, without extra pool and || with fool blood. Plus, InfoHigh stays in play for other vampires || to continue using its advantages. Also we must keep in mind that || the extra transers help to influance "out" blood put to minions || with Govern, etc. and bring other minions plus give them two pool. || || IMHO it's by far the best, the only drawback is that its also very || popular and unique (a very bad combination). thinking the same thing ! Info highway is free, it won't deplete your pool ! you can always play it to cycle it (except if you already have it in play). You will also play it to contest someone elses's. It stays until the end of the game most of the times, allowing you to cycle rapidly through your crypt and influence/govern back efficiently. I can't imagine a fattie or even a weenie deck without these. Wait ! my BB deck full of 6 cap guys also benefits from this card ! It's an unvaluable card to me.

snip.... re: info highway > It's an unvaluable card to me. invaluable? unvaluable = not valued. I agree that it is a highly valuable card, droping one first turn is, without a doubt, one of the better plays in all of Vtes. Dave B

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > I don't consider Tomb to be an inferior option to Zillah's in any way, only > different. I generally side with the Zillahs these days, primarilly because: A) You want a lot of them to get them out quickly, and multiple Zillahs are less cumbersome than multiple Tombs. B) It costs you an extra pool, but you get the vampires out full, and I generally speaking have Minion Taps to go with the Zillahs. C) Tomb has the (admitedly minor) possibility of getting burned/stolen before it pays off. Granted, if I wasn't using the Taps, I'd use Tomb over Zillahs, but if I am building a deck with 9+ point vampires, I am going to be using the Taps. Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "she tore down Paris on the tail of Thom Paine but the left wing's broken and the right's insane" -Bowie

In article <e8b60e8d.02110...@posting.google.com>, Uriel <galama...@hotmail.com> wrote: >Shouldn't you also include first turn InfoHigh? No. >IMHO it's by far the best, the only drawback is that its also very >popular and unique (a very bad combination). Notice how I've snipped parts of the post I'm not responding to. This is behaviour it would please me immensely for you to emulate. The post was addressing earlier claims that Tomb's current text renders it unplayable, especially in comparison to Zillah's Valley. Therefore, those were the two things compared. gomi -- Everybody's playing the game But nobody's rules are the same

"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message news:aq9ujq$j7l$1...@panix3.panix.com... > So, I went and compared Tomb of Ramses III to Zillah's Valley. > [snip your analysis] There are a couple of interesting threads on this subject from about a year ago, if you're interested: http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=a1e26d99.0106301516.2668e1a1%40posting.g oogle.com http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=a1e26d99.0110102032.29240d9c%40posting.g oogle.com > > gomi [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<aq9ujq$j7l$1...@panix3.panix.com>... > Capacity Turns Cost Blood Ratio* > 8 1 7 4 1:4 > 9 2 7 4 2:5 > 10 2 8 5 2:5 > 11 2 8 5 3:6 It might be too early in the morning, but I think the math is a little off. Doesn't the 9 cap cost 5 pool in transfers + 3 pool for tomb = 8? It should come out with 5 blood on it as well. And the 11 cap would cost 6 pool + 3 for the tomb, come out with 6 blood. -Snapcase

[ quoted text not captured ] 9 cap: Turn 1: Tomb (3 pool). 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, 4 times. (4 pool) Turn 2: 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, once (1 pool). 2 transfers to move 1 pool from vampire, once (-1 pool). Vampire comes out with 4 blood (and the 5 tomb counters are burned). 10 cap: Turn 1: Tomb (3 pool). 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, 4 times. (4 pool) Turn 2: 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, twice (2 pool). 2 transfers to move 1 pool from vampire, once (-1 pool). Vampire comes out with 5 blood (and the 6 tomb counters are burned). 11 cap: Turn 1: Tomb (3 pool). 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, 4 times. (4 pool) Turn 2: 1 transfer to move 1 pool to vampire, twice (2 pool). 2 transfers to move 1 pool from vampire, once (-1 pool). Vampire comes out with 5 blood (and the 6 tomb counters are burned). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DCBDC6C...@white-wolf.com>... <snip explanation> Huzzah! Knew there was something I missed. You know, this card isn't looking too bad... Now I just have to find some. -Snapcase