Sniper Rifle Q:

Card text: Weapon, Gun. 2R damage each strike. Only usable at long range. If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may set the range for the first round of combat to long; if he or she does so, skip the Determine Range step on the first round, and bearer must strike with this weapon on the first round. Message 12 in thread Från:LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) Ämne:Re: Sniper Rifle V.S. Drawing out the Beast Nyhetsgrupper:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad View this article only Datum:2001-09-22 14:59:15 PST Nystulc wrote: > James Coupe wrote: > >Card text says: > > > > "If the bearer blocks an action" > > > >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not > >block an action. > > He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did. Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks. > satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he was > the bearer when the block began.. What in the card's text states he must be bearer when he blocks? The sentence "If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may set the range for the first round of combat to long;" doesn't state he needs to be bearer when he blocks IMO. To set range he needs to be ebarer. After playing Disguised Weapon he IS in fact bearer. It's when you want to set the range that you read card text of Sniper Rifle. You don't read it before that. At the time you read card text (because you're using the card) he is the bearer. he wasn't bearer when he blocked, but card text doesn't clearly state "needs ot be bearer when blocking", by the time you set the range the bearer did actually block the action and he is a bearer (now) and that is enough, that's how I interpret the card text. I understand the current ruling has interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" to require the bearer to have been bearer when blocking too, but I don't understand why this ruling was interpreted like that. It could just as well be interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" to mean that "if minion is a bearer when wanting to determine range, and blocked the action, then...". How are people supposed to know that Sniper Rifle checks for bearer not when it is used, but when minion blocked? I think the card text would need an errata to reflect that. Roger

Roger Carhult wrote: > Card text: > > Weapon, Gun. 2R damage each strike. Only usable at long range. If the bearer > blocks an action, he or she may set the range for the first round of combat > to long; if he or she does so, skip the Determine Range step on the first > round, and bearer must strike with this weapon on the first round. > <SNIP> > I understand the current ruling has interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" > to require the bearer to have been bearer when blocking too, but I don't > understand why this ruling was interpreted like that. It could just as well > be interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" to mean that "if minion is a > bearer when wanting to determine range, and blocked the action, then...". > If I recall correctly the block is resolved before combat rather than being part of it, ie the combat is the result of a succesful block so that when Disguised Weapon is played the the 'block' part is already part of the history, ie I tend to read the text as something extra I have available should I happen to block a minion sometime in the future. Sten During

[ quoted text not captured ] The combat is part of the block (not the other way around). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <9v5al0$d28pl$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de>, Roger Carhult <rogc...@student.luth.se> writes: >I understand the current ruling has interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" >to require the bearer to have been bearer when blocking too, but I don't >understand why this ruling was interpreted like that. Because it uses the word "blocks" not "blocked". It requires the bearer to block an action. The minion was not the bearer when they blocked the action, in the situation of a Disguised Weapon style card. By being in the present tense, the effect triggers when the block actually occurs, but is used before range etc. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D It's been a long road, getting from there to here EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA213D7E It's been a long time, and my time is finally near 668C3695D623D5D I will see my dream come alive at last, I will touch the sky And they're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not gonna change my mind

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:YyqSnsSD...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <9v5al0$d28pl$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de>, Roger Carhult > <rogc...@student.luth.se> writes: > >I understand the current ruling has interpreted "if bearer blocks an action" > >to require the bearer to have been bearer when blocking too, but I don't > >understand why this ruling was interpreted like that. > > Because it uses the word "blocks" not "blocked". > > It requires the bearer to block an action. The minion was not the > bearer when they blocked the action, in the situation of a Disguised > Weapon style card. I understand it's interpreted like this, but I don't agree with it. "Bearer blocks" to me means that the one having the Sniper Rifle must block, which is true in my case, AND that s/he needs to have a SR to be bearer, which is ALSO true in my case. Card doesn't state when you checkf or bearer, to me you check for bearer when you read the taxt, and *by the time* you read the text, you've already equipped it with DW and thus IS a bearer. He *did* block and is in fact *still* blocking since combat is part of block so the present tense is moot as a reason to make the interpretation that has been done. > By being in the present tense, the effect triggers when the block > actually occurs, but is used before range etc. What rule states that present tense triggers when the block actually occurs, and does NOT actually refer to the moment when the card is being read/used? I've always thought card text applies when you use/play them. So the present tense refers to the current moment, and at that particular moment I happen to have a bearer who did block. I understand the current ruling, but I think card text sin't clear enough. You can only know the current ruling by asking LSJ, not by simply reading card text (which is how it ideally should be). Roger

Roger Carhult wrote: > You can only know the current ruling by asking > LSJ, not by simply reading card text (which is how it ideally should be). If you could "know" it by reading card text, it would be a clarification, not a ruling. Rulings resolve ambiguity. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <9v5dea$d0eo3$1...@ID-104455.news.dfncis.de>, Roger Carhult <rogc...@student.luth.se> writes: >> By being in the present tense, the effect triggers when the block >> actually occurs, but is used before range etc. > >What rule states that present tense triggers when the block actually occurs, >and does NOT actually refer to the moment when the card is being read/used? The English language. (Gotta love it.) It states that if the bearer blocks, <X> happens. The bearer didn't block. A vampire without the card blocked. [ quoted text not captured ]

Whether or not you get the set range effect is determind before combat, correct? If so can I use it if my opponent play Drawing out the Beast? When i think about the wording... Could I use it before combat begins (before my oponent can play Drawing out the Beast)? "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> skrev i meddelandet news:3C163565...@white-wolf.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Fredrik Hansen" <fredrik...@chello.se> wrote in message news:ABUR7.187$8F.4...@news01.chello.se... > Whether or not you get the set range effect is determind before combat, > correct? You set range during the determine range step. > If so can I use it if my opponent play Drawing out the Beast? Yes, you are setting range, not manuvering to long. DotB only prevents you from manuvering to long. > When i think about the wording... Could I use it before combat begins > (before my oponent can play Drawing out the Beast)? No. You set range in the determine range step. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <u1gir31...@news.supernews.com>, GreySeer <e...@i.think.not> wrote: >"Fredrik Hansen" <fredrik...@chello.se> wrote in message >news:ABUR7.187$8F.4...@news01.chello.se... >> If so can I use it if my opponent play Drawing out the Beast? >Yes, you are setting range, not manuvering to long. DotB only prevents you >from manuvering to long. But you are using equipment, which DotB prohibits. So, alas, DotB hoses Sniper Rifle. gomi -- Blood, guts, guns, cuts Knives, lives, wives, nuns, sluts

"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message news:9v9lh4$j8a$1...@panix1.panix.com... > In article <u1gir31...@news.supernews.com>, > GreySeer <e...@i.think.not> wrote: > >"Fredrik Hansen" <fredrik...@chello.se> wrote in message > >news:ABUR7.187$8F.4...@news01.chello.se... > > >> If so can I use it if my opponent play Drawing out the Beast? > > >Yes, you are setting range, not manuvering to long. DotB only prevents you > >from manuvering to long. > > But you are using equipment, which DotB prohibits. So, alas, DotB > hoses Sniper Rifle. Yes, of course, silly me, there I go again, answering questions at silly hours of the morning.

[ quoted text not captured ] yeah, and let's not forget that you said 'you set range during the determine range step' (paraphrased), and yet the text of sniper rifle at the bottom of that post had 'if you set range, skip the determine range step' (paraphrased). so, yeah. sleep is good. O:) salem