Vykos Promo Card

Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the Vykos card to appear in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, and Scrye #81, on sale 11/27. We are also expecting it to appear in issues of Lotus Noir (French magazine) and Mephisto (German magazine) and Urza (Spanish magazine) in October or November. I do not have the exact dates or issue numbers for those magazines. Regards, Steve Wieck White Wolf ---------- Want V:tES Prize Support? See http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/veknPrizeSupport.html ----------

Steve Wieck <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the Vykos card to > appear in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, and Scrye #81, on sale > 11/27. > > We are also expecting it to appear in issues of Lotus Noir (French > magazine) and Mephisto (German magazine) and Urza (Spanish magazine) > in October or November. I do not have the exact dates or issue > numbers for those magazines. So are Vykos and Lucita promo-*only* cards, or will we see them in the set. I would think that they are promo-only since Vykos will appear in magazines after the release of the Sabbat War set, but that doesn't necessarily mean she/he/it won't be in the set as well. p. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:07:35 GMT, Steve Wieck <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the Vykos card to appear >in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, and Scrye #81, on sale 11/27. > i think it is completely pants that the supposedly 'promo' only cards are actually going to be in the set as normal vampires. does this mean that a) there will be no actually promo vamps as with VtES or b) WW are going to release proper promo only vampires. i don't care who flames me over this. I know WW have done a cool job with the game but they should have kept both as promos only. lucieta is cool once in sleeves so we didn't need it to be reprinted. one highly dissappointed girlie anam

stubby wrote: > i think it is completely pants that the supposedly 'promo' only cards > are actually going to be in the set as normal vampires. They are promo cards. I don't believe they had been identified as "promo-only" cards. Sorry for any confusion between the two. > does this mean that > a) there will be no actually promo vamps as with VtES > or > b) WW are going to release proper promo only vampires. The two promotional V:TES cards released (or scheduled to be released) by White Wolf are Lucita and Vykos, both of which are to be included in the respective pre-constructed starter decks in the Sabbat War. More promotional cards may follow but have not as yet been scheduled. In the future, we'll be clearer about designating promotional cards as "promo-only" or not. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why > >were we to belive that they would relise these > >ones. > White Wolf had nothing to do with the old promos, so far as I am aware. > Those were made and printed by Wizards of the Coast. > If you were basing what White Wolf would do on what an entirely separate > company did, there is a fault in your logic. No, what any company does. As far as I know, other CCGs don't release promos only to release those cards again in a future expansion. You shouldn't rail someone for being upset about this. For me, I don't care one way or the other. I got my 4 Lucitas and I'm happy with them just as I'll be happy with the Lucitas that I get from the boosters. Sorrow

fre...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! > >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >were we to belive that they would relise these >ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the >losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a >chance to get them again. Now your all saying that >sorry they are only promo cards because you will >see them early not cards that you will never see >again like the earler jyhad promos. > >Again this sucks! The original promo vamps (Dan Murdock and Marianne Gilbert) have been available from any V:EKN Prince for some time. They are by no means special or more valuable just because they are promo vamps. If you expected (as I did, either wisely or foolishly) that the distribution of the new promo vamps was to be the same as before, then you should also be able to get them from a V:EKN Prince once Sabbat War is out.

Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! WW has never relised there old promo cards, why were we to belive that they would relise these ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a chance to get them again. Now your all saying that sorry they are only promo cards because you will see them early not cards that you will never see again like the earler jyhad promos. Again this sucks! In article <39C1244A...@white-wolf.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, fre...@my-deja.com writes >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >were we to belive that they would relise these >ones. White Wolf had nothing to do with the old promos, so far as I am aware. Those were made and printed by Wizards of the Coast. If you were basing what White Wolf would do on what an entirely separate company did, there is a fault in your logic. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D | ja...@zephyr.org.uk (New e-mail) "Who'd have ever predicted the moment would come when I find myself grateful they've kept women dumb? She's an innocent maiden but then so am I, that's why it's possible I could get by."

In article <39c11407...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>, vt...@netcomuk.co.uk (stubby) wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:07:35 GMT, Steve Wieck > <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > >Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the Vykos card to appear > >in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, and Scrye #81, on sale 11/27. > > > > i think it is completely pants that the supposedly 'promo' only cards > are actually going to be in the set as normal vampires. > > does this mean that > a) there will be no actually promo vamps as with VtES > or > b) WW are going to release proper promo only vampires. > > i don't care who flames me over this. I know WW have done a cool job > with the game but they should have kept both as promos only. lucieta > is cool once in sleeves so we didn't need it to be reprinted. > > one highly dissappointed girlie > > anam > While i hate to disagree with my Respected Sister of Petersfield i think there is no big problem here. Pokepromo cards are generally if not always available by buying cards too. i think the pre-issue of Lucita makes it a perfectly valid promo which had exactly the desired effect of stimulating new deck-building ideas. i am, however, glad that Scott's answer to Anam makes it clear that we will know in future whehter promos are going to be available in sets. i suspect one of the reasons why Anam is cross is that we've been telling people that Lucita WOULDN'T be available to buy, and now we look a bit silly. But, no real harm done, i think. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:10:43 -0500, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> said: Sorrow> No, what any company does. As far as I know, other CCGs Sorrow> don't release promos only to release those cards again in a Sorrow> future expansion. You shouldn't rail someone for being upset Sorrow> about this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik the Babylon 5 CCG has a lot of promos that have later come out as part of expansion sets. //Petri

>While i hate to disagree with my Respected Sister of Petersfield i think >there is no big problem here. Pokepromo cards are generally if not always >available by buying cards too. i think the pre-issue of Lucita makes it a >perfectly valid promo which had exactly the desired effect of stimulating >new deck-building ideas. I have to agree. I imagine that White-Wolf are primarily concerned with generating renewed interest in the game. Providing veteran players with valuable collectibles is something that they can address further down the line, once the new cardset is frimly established in the marketplace. >i am, however, glad that Scott's answer to Anam makes it clear that we >will know in future whehter promos are going to be available in sets. i >suspect one of the reasons why Anam is cross is that we've been telling >people that Lucita WOULDN'T be available to buy, and now we look a bit >silly. But, no real harm done, i think. I never said to anyone that Lucita wouldn't be available through other means. I am suprised that White-Wolf have chosen to reintroduce both vampire cards so quickly, but it's no big deal. One thing I did briefly mention to Tim Avers at GenCon UK, and which I'd like to pursue now, is for the oppurtunity for national tournament winners to become enshrined in their own vampire cards. The marketing of the DoomTown CCG produced by AEG/Five Rings includes the fact the US national champion every year will be made into a promo card. Does White-Wolf have any comments on doing something similar for 2001? Regards, Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London mi...@vekn.org.uk http://www.vtes.org.uk

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> writes: >> >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >> >were we to belive that they would relise these >> >ones. >> White Wolf had nothing to do with the old promos, so far as I am aware. >> Those were made and printed by Wizards of the Coast. >> If you were basing what White Wolf would do on what an entirely separate >> company did, there is a fault in your logic. > >No, what any company does. As far as I know, other CCGs >don't release promos only to release those cards again in a >future expansion. You shouldn't rail someone for being upset >about this. Actually, WotC does this with Magic and Pokemon all the time. White Wolf has released promos for Rage, some of which showed up later in an expansion (as commons no less), some of which became uberrare chase cards. (Except...well, it was just Rage...) I can't blame someone for being surprised. I got caught. I think LSJ had it right when he said, "In the future, we'll be clearer about designating promotional cards as 'promo-only' or not." That would be a good idea. Fred

Really? What would need to be done to secure these fabled promo's? Lee On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:25:10 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> wrote: > >fre...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >>Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! >> >>WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >>were we to belive that they would relise these >>ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the >>losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a >>chance to get them again. Now your all saying that >>sorry they are only promo cards because you will >>see them early not cards that you will never see >>again like the earler jyhad promos. >> >>Again this sucks! > [ quoted text not captured ]

Find the closest V:EKN Prince to you, and go play with them. They should be able to get a hold of the old promo vamps. You can look at the V:EKN Prince List by going to: http://www.white-wolf.com/ and find the VTES page and then find the V:EKN Prince List. Lee Fent wrote in message <39c2614d....@news.ionet.net>... >Really? What would need to be done to secure these fabled promo's? > >Lee > > >On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:25:10 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> >wrote: > >> >>fre...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >>>Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! >>> >>>WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >>>were we to belive that they would relise these >>>ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the >>>losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a >>>chance to get them again. Now your all saying that >>>sorry they are only promo cards because you will >>>see them early not cards that you will never see >>>again like the earler jyhad promos. >>> >>>Again this sucks! >> [ quoted text not captured ]

i don't have a problem with what they have done it jsut puts some of us in a tight spot, especially as the history of promos is that they are special and as such not available in the 'normal' way ie in boosters or starters. it makes it difficult to have something for players, if they know they could get the same card without having to enter a tournement or such like. i thought the whole plan was to get more people into game and incentives, especially good ones, are a start. anything that gets new and old players into the game is good. i have fought a long time to get more irish players, especially those willing to enter or setup tournements. it was good to have lucita as bait for them - now i have nothing and they have gaelgon in october where what was once a good thing is now just going to be as common place as the next vampire. just my two pence anam

>One thing I did briefly mention to Tim Avers at GenCon UK, and which >I'd like to pursue now, is for the oppurtunity for national tournament >winners to become enshrined in their own vampire cards. The marketing >of the DoomTown CCG produced by AEG/Five Rings includes the fact the >US national champion every year will be made into a promo card. Does >White-Wolf have any comments on doing something similar for 2001? the winner of dragon had the promise that possibly he may be used as a model for a vampire for the possible next release. It is also something that some of us princes have been working on and the work should be up for viewing at the isle of wight tournement in february. regards anam

Well, that's right out, at over 6 hours away by car. Hrmm, can Oklahoma get a prince? Nah, we're all hillbillies... Lee On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:02:34 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> wrote: >Find the closest V:EKN Prince to you, and go play with them. They should be >able to get a hold of the old promo vamps. You can look at the V:EKN Prince >List by going to: > >http://www.white-wolf.com/ > >and find the VTES page and then find the V:EKN Prince List. > >Lee Fent wrote in message <39c2614d....@news.ionet.net>... >>Really? What would need to be done to secure these fabled promo's? >> >>Lee >> >> >>On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:25:10 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> >>wrote: >> >>> >>>fre...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >>>>Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! >>>> >>>>WW has never relised there old promo cards, why >>>>were we to belive that they would relise these >>>>ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the >>>>losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a >>>>chance to get them again. Now your all saying that >>>>sorry they are only promo cards because you will >>>>see them early not cards that you will never see >>>>again like the earler jyhad promos. >>>> >>>>Again this sucks! >>> [ quoted text not captured ]

Lee Fent wrote in message <39c29e6f....@news.ionet.net>... >Well, that's right out, at over 6 hours away by car. Hrmm, can >Oklahoma get a prince? Nah, we're all hillbillies... > >Lee On the website, check out the section titled, "Information on V:EKN" It has information on the job of a V:EKN Prince and even how to become one. Become your own prince and then you can distribute Dan Murdock and Marianne Gilbert! -mike

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message news:DDfw5.704$Ao1....@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net... > > >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why > > >were we to belive that they would relise these > > >ones. IMHO, we should more properly call these cards "insert cards" or "inserts", since that is what the magazine industry calls them. Calling them "promos" is somewhat misleading and confusing (as we have seen). > > White Wolf had nothing to do with the old promos, so far as I am aware. > > Those were made and printed by Wizards of the Coast. > > If you were basing what White Wolf would do on what an entirely separate > > company did, there is a fault in your logic. > > No, what any company does. As far as I know, other CCGs > don't release promos only to release those cards again in a > future expansion. You shouldn't rail someone for being upset > about this. Every single M:TG and Pokemon insert card ever has been published with either the next set or the one after. If you want to talk about non-WOTC ccgs, Decipher used to do exactly the same thing as mentioned above with their Star Wars and Star Trek games. A *really* long time ago in the history of ccgs, the Highlander and Galactic Empire ccgs used to have both insert and promo cards. Both companies took it to the extremes. Highlander had an A-mazing 'Chessex' power card that you could only acquire by having you or your distributor order your cards directly from Chessex. At that point in the evolution of the game, you essentially had to be packing 1-3 of these cards to EVER win a tournament. They also had 'Scrye', 'Inquest', et.al., cards. Galactic Empires had 20-some ships that you could only get by ordering through certain retailers *or* distributors. Those guys were crazy! > For me, I don't care one way or the other. I got my 4 Lucitas > and I'm happy with them just as I'll be happy with the Lucitas > that I get from the boosters. > > Sorrow Kevin J. Mergen, kjme...@home.com "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, "The Art of War" "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

At a demo we did in San Antonio we found out about 2 playgroups in Oklahoma that were going to contact Carl about joining the V:EKN. Alas, I suck and I didn't get their e-mail addresses. I think I can probably find them with some research, I'll get back to you. In article <39c29e6f....@news.ionet.net>, lf...@ionet.net (Lee Fent) wrote: > Well, that's right out, at over 6 hours away by car. Hrmm, can > Oklahoma get a prince? Nah, we're all hillbillies... ------------------------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:15:47 GMT, theve...@my-deja.com wrote: >Correct me if i'm wrong but from memory there were some posts before >lucita came out asking whether lucita was going to be in the sabbat set >or not and they were not answered by lsj, steve wieck etc. if i'm not >wrong could remaining silent have been intentional? could it in fact be >classed as 'collusion'? Of course it was intentional. They are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to you, and it is, in fact, in their best interests to remain silent and answer NO questions about content whatsoever. If you notice, what we know about Sabbat War consists of how many rares/vampires/etc. per pack and the like - and NOTHING about content. If you reveal content prior to release, you reduce demand. Fact. White Wolf is NOT going to casually reduce demand by answering every question J. Random User posts to the net. as far as "collusion", the word itself has no relevance to the discussion - LSJ, White Wolf, Steve W, etc. are all on the same "side". I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

In article <8ptjho$9f$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, fre...@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) wrote: > "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> writes: > > >> >WW has never relised there old promo cards, why > >> >were we to belive that they would relise these > >> >ones. > >> White Wolf had nothing to do with the old promos, so far as I am aware. > >> Those were made and printed by Wizards of the Coast. > >> If you were basing what White Wolf would do on what an entirely separate > >> company did, there is a fault in your logic. > > > >No, what any company does. As far as I know, other CCGs > >don't release promos only to release those cards again in a > >future expansion. You shouldn't rail someone for being upset > >about this. > > Actually, WotC does this with Magic and Pokemon all the time. White Wolf > has released promos for Rage, some of which showed up later in an > expansion (as commons no less), some of which became uberrare chase cards. > (Except...well, it was just Rage...) > > I can't blame someone for being surprised. I got caught. I think LSJ had > it right when he said, "In the future, we'll be clearer about designating > promotional cards as 'promo-only' or not." That would be a good idea. > > Fred > Correct me if i'm wrong but from memory there were some posts before lucita came out asking whether lucita was going to be in the sabbat set or not and they were not answered by lsj, steve wieck etc. if i'm not wrong could remaining silent have been intentional? could it in fact be classed as 'collusion'? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <780bss418q36244n1...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:15:47 GMT, theve...@my-deja.com wrote: > > >Correct me if i'm wrong but from memory there were some posts before > >lucita came out asking whether lucita was going to be in the sabbat set > >or not and they were not answered by lsj, steve wieck etc. if i'm not > >wrong could remaining silent have been intentional? could it in fact be > >classed as 'collusion'? > > Of course it was intentional. They are under no obligation to release > ANYTHING to you, and it is, in fact, in their best interests to remain > silent and answer NO questions about content whatsoever. If you > notice, what we know about Sabbat War consists of how many > rares/vampires/etc. per pack and the like - and NOTHING about content. > i don't disagree that they had every right to do what they did and that it made economical sense however it has seemed to alienate the players just slightly and perhaps was not the best approach. LSJ seemed to confirm this when he said that they would do things differently in the future: In the future, we'll be clearer about designating promotional cards as "promo-only" or not. > If you reveal content prior to release, you reduce demand. Fact. > White Wolf is NOT going to casually reduce demand by answering every > question J. Random User posts to the net. Again i agree however i don't believe that the question regarding lucita's "promo status" was just another random question. many people asked it and i for one would have liked it to have been answered. > > as far as "collusion", the word itself has no relevance to the > discussion - LSJ, White Wolf, Steve W, etc. are all on the same > "side". I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. > the idea was that they were on one side with us on the other. it was a tongue in cheek reference to another discussion going on at the moment. it was not meant seriously. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 04:23:29 GMT, theve...@my-deja.com wrote: >i don't disagree that they had every right to do what they did and that >it made economical sense however it has seemed to alienate the players >just slightly and perhaps was not the best approach. LSJ seemed to >confirm this when he said that they would do things differently in the >future: > >In the future, we'll be clearer about designating promotional cards >as "promo-only" or not. "The players" as a whole aren't alienated; a few of them are just bitching about small stuff, as a few of ANY game's players will do occasionally. I'm not even sure what the big deal is about her being distributed in the precon decks, other than maybe the thought that by acting fast one might get something others wouldn't have access to - and the precon decks ensure that everyone can have a Lucita or ten if they want, just by buying enough. Question for everyone: did you really think White Wolf would make a "signature" vampire (a new concept, visibly introduced to add an additional marketing hook for the game) available to ONLY a lucky few people: those who happened to get her at a con, or happened to get an Inquest or Scrye? If you did, think about it -carefully- for awhile. What use is a marketing hook if nobody can have one except the "insiders"? Bad call, folks. It HAD to be made available to everyone EVENTUALLY - but in the meantime, it certainly served its purpose, as there was MUCH furor over getting a copy or two of Lucita - lots of publicity, lots of good press. Hence the term "promotional" card. >> If you reveal content prior to release, you reduce demand. Fact. >> White Wolf is NOT going to casually reduce demand by answering every >> question J. Random User posts to the net. > >Again i agree however i don't believe that the question regarding >lucita's "promo status" was just another random question. many people >asked it and i for one would have liked it to have been answered. Whether it's a random question or not doesn't matter - the best policy is absolute silence. Sure, it doesn't give away much information about the rest of the set to say "lucita will be in the precon decks". But if you answer one question, people begin to pester you to answer more, and then people start bitching because you won't answer any others. People will find ways to bitch no matter what. [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes: >Question for everyone: did you really think White Wolf would make a >"signature" vampire (a new concept, visibly introduced to add an >additional marketing hook for the game) available to ONLY a lucky few >people: those who happened to get her at a con, or happened to get an >Inquest or Scrye? If you did, think about it -carefully- for awhile. I'm not sure that super-rare chase promo cards are a good idea, myself. But I don't think that's the issue, here. The issue is being clear about what the nature of the promo card truly is, whether it will be released by other drastically different means such as in a later expansion. I don't think that that information is really comparable to information about the exact cards in a future expansion as you seem to be implying. It's more similar to something like the information about whether a given release is a number-limited vs. a time-limited vs. a print-to-order run. It helps people decide how to act in pursuit of their particular collecting habits and motivations. No, the company isn't obligated to release any information at all. But there's no reason to hold back on something like this. And I think if they withhold, they do so at the risk of a number of possible bad eventualities. For instance, they may cause an unnecessary run on the print copies of the magazine if they underestimate the promo's drawing power. Or they may also cause some considerable amount of anger amounst their customers, regardless of you or I feel its validity. That's never good. I guess I just don't think it's very smart playing around with surprising your customers when it comes to promo-printing. Leave the surprises for the exact content of your expansion. People expect that - and therefore won't blame the company if they get screwed up by a reprint or by game- altering cards. (They may blame the company for "bad playtesting", but that's another issue.) Fred

<snip> > > Every single M:TG and Pokemon insert card ever has been published with > either the next set or the one after. i believe there's at least one exception to that - Nalathni Dragon. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com writes: ><snip> >> >> Every single M:TG and Pokemon insert card ever has been published with >> either the next set or the one after. > >i believe there's at least one exception to that - Nalathni Dragon. Actually, there were five "book cards" (cards that could only be obtained using the coupon printed in a bood) in Magic as well: Arena, Sewers of Estark, Windseeker Centaur, Giant Badger, and Mana Crypt. Of all the promo cards, only Mana Crypt was a "tournament card". And of the rest, Arena was the only other one that held more than marginal value, because it made an interesting card for certain theme decks. Fred

On 18 Sep 2000 07:27:39 GMT, fre...@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) wrote: >Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes: > >>Question for everyone: did you really think White Wolf would make a >>"signature" vampire (a new concept, visibly introduced to add an >>additional marketing hook for the game) available to ONLY a lucky few >>people: those who happened to get her at a con, or happened to get an >>Inquest or Scrye? If you did, think about it -carefully- for awhile. > >I'm not sure that super-rare chase promo cards are a good idea, myself. I'm pretty sure they're -not- a good idea. =) Not for promo cards. Stuff like Protected Racehorses, that any bozo could buy one booster and happen to hit gold on... That's fine. >is a number-limited vs. a time-limited vs. a print-to-order run. It helps >people decide how to act in pursuit of their particular collecting habits >and motivations. It puts the player -totally- in the driver's seat and strikingly reduces the "promotional" value of the card. If you KNOW that it will be a normal-rarity vampire in the next expansion, why bother spending any special effort in getting one a couple months ahead of time? And really, most people wouldn't. None of the furor over who had a Lucita and who didn't would be generated. And David Tatu wouldn't be able to go to Origins with his Dragon*Con copy hanging around his neck in a badge-holder and make people drool. (Side note: How much publicity do you think THAT generated, even though it was just an amusing trick? Answer: LOTS.) >No, the company isn't obligated to release any information at all. But >there's no reason to hold back on something like this. And I think if There's no reason to LIE on something like this. There are several reasons to hold back if it's a "promo" card - first being that people should know the difference between "promo ONLY" and "promo". I don't recall ever hearing Lucita advertised as "promo ONLY" - if WW did, that's a screwup on their part and bad cess to them. So "promo" just means "you're getting this cool vamp now - you'll probably get more of this vamp later, but we aren't going to tell you how or when." And the whole promotional aspect is reduced minimally, if at all, since nobody wants to wait around for something they don't KNOW about. On the other hand, "promo-only" cards NEED to be announced as such, right away, so that as many people as possible have a shot at getting one. If they won't be available later, it is mandatory to make sure that everyone who knows of the card realizes that it's "now or never", or there will be a lot of bad press about creating artificial rarities by "un-printing" cards. This is one reason I don't like promo-only cards - they DO create an artificial demand, and some people will always be left out and be ticked. >they withhold, they do so at the risk of a number of possible bad >eventualities. For instance, they may cause an unnecessary run on the >print copies of the magazine if they underestimate the promo's drawing >power. Or they may also cause some considerable amount of anger amounst >their customers, regardless of you or I feel its validity. That's never >good. Neither Inquest, Scrye, or White Wolf will cry even one solitary salty tear in their beer if the presence of one promo card causes an "unnecessary" run on print copies of a magazine. In fact, they probably would lose their shit and roller-blade through the office wearing a lampshade on their head, yelling "YIPPEE!" Something like that happening is every promoter's dream. Inquest would love it - they will sell more in the future because of visibly increased demand. WW would love it - they ALSO will sell more, and Inquest will be ever-so-happy to give them cheaper article space and more insert room, since last time they did they sold out their mag copies. Everyone wins, and so do the players - they get more stuff in the future. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, stubby wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:07:35 GMT, Steve Wieck > <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > >Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the Vykos card to appear > >in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, and Scrye #81, on sale 11/27. > > > > i think it is completely pants that the supposedly 'promo' only cards > are actually going to be in the set as normal vampires. > > i don't care who flames me over this. I know WW have done a cool job > with the game but they should have kept both as promos only. lucieta > is cool once in sleeves so we didn't need it to be reprinted. > You're not the only one, girl. My folks here are pretty peeved because they paid a few bucks for the magazine just to get the card (I'll refrain from relaying their comments on both the magazine and the card) only to find that they could have gotten it from regular Sabbat. Those last 5 you gave me did manage to soothe a few tho :) Also, I think people like to have 'special' cards that they got due to reasons other than buying the boosters (such as attending a convention or a tournament). This as long as they don't become ultra rares and can be distributed by, say, the local Prince. And I bet people wouldn't mind if these promo cards would appear not on the next expansion but the one after that. Thanks, David Pontes, Lisbon

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Derek Ray wrote: > On 18 Sep 2000 07:27:39 GMT, fre...@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) > wrote: > > >Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes: > > > > >No, the company isn't obligated to release any information at all. But > >there's no reason to hold back on something like this. And I think if > > There's no reason to LIE on something like this. There are several > reasons to hold back if it's a "promo" card - first being that people > should know the difference between "promo ONLY" and "promo". I don't > recall ever hearing Lucita advertised as "promo ONLY" - if WW did, > that's a screwup on their part and bad cess to them. So "promo" just > means "you're getting this cool vamp now - you'll probably get more of > this vamp later, but we aren't going to tell you how or when." And > the whole promotional aspect is reduced minimally, if at all, since > nobody wants to wait around for something they don't KNOW about. > True. But by willingly and purposefully holding back, they're creating a bad impresison on some players. People are still not expecting a low-blow from WW, and frankly the more things like this they do, the less players (or should I say, 'payers') will go for their 'tricks', and ultimately, their products. "Oh, poor thing, he was cheated...", right? But how much does an antagonizing policy sell? > On the other hand, "promo-only" cards NEED to be announced as such, > right away, so that as many people as possible have a shot at getting > one. This is why people rushed to buy the magazine: they thought this was the case, since the previous ones were as well. You can't expect a VtES player to know the examples of other companies, but I'm sure this was intentional. > If they won't be available later, it is mandatory to make sure > that everyone who knows of the card realizes that it's "now or never", > or there will be a lot of bad press about creating artificial rarities > by "un-printing" cards. This is one reason I don't like promo-only > cards - they DO create an artificial demand, and some people will > always be left out and be ticked. > Unless they are freely given provided you take some other activity, such as sending your info to the company or the local Prince. This has been done a million times. > >they withhold, they do so at the risk of a number of possible bad > >eventualities. For instance, they may cause an unnecessary run on the > >print copies of the magazine if they underestimate the promo's drawing > >power. Or they may also cause some considerable amount of anger amounst > >their customers, regardless of you or I feel its validity. That's never > >good. > > Neither Inquest, Scrye, or White Wolf will cry even one solitary salty > tear in their beer if the presence of one promo card causes an > "unnecessary" run on print copies of a magazine. In fact, they > probably would lose their shit and roller-blade through the office > wearing a lampshade on their head, yelling "YIPPEE!" Something like > that happening is every promoter's dream. Inquest would love it - > they will sell more in the future because of visibly increased demand. > WW would love it - they ALSO will sell more, and Inquest will be > ever-so-happy to give them cheaper article space and more insert room, > since last time they did they sold out their mag copies. Everyone > wins, and so do the players - they get more stuff in the future. > Yes, but this (IMHO) low trick will only work once, won't it? Also, it will serve to remind them that WW isn't always sugar for them. They could be reminded of this a bit later, if at all, with better results. Maybe this will bounce back on them, maybe not. Who knows? All I'm saying is that WW are, for some, not held in so much grace as before this incident. And that's a fact. David Pontes, Lisbon

In article <39c11407...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>, vt...@netcomuk.co.uk (stubby) wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:07:35 GMT, Steve Wieck > <steve...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > >Our marketing director Tim Avers has arranged for the > >Vykos card to appear in InQuest #69, street date 11/29, > >and Scrye #81, on sale 11/27. > > > > i think it is completely pants that the supposedly > 'promo' only cards are actually going to be in the > set as normal vampires. At least you know that Sasha will be like this before hand, this seems to be a good faith effort. > does this mean that > a) there will be no actually promo vamps as with VtES > or > b) WW are going to release proper promo only vampires. > > i don't care who flames me over this. I know WW have done a cool job > with the game but they should have kept both as promos only. lucieta > is cool once in sleeves so we didn't need it to be reprinted. About the sleeves: I presonally hate sleeves and would love to have a legal version of Lucita to play with. Also, you'll have 2 variations of Lucita, one odd shaped one and one correct one. The odd shaped one should have more value, shouldn't it? it was released in less quanity and the difference is easy to spot. Let's think of the Inquest Lucita as a moist meaty treat. Joe C. -- V:EKN Prince of Columbia, SC Editor: Tzimisce Clan Newsletter http://www.warghoul.com [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:30:11 +0100, David Pontes <dp...@mega.ist.utl.pt> wrote: > True. But by willingly and purposefully holding back, they're >creating a bad impresison on some players. People are still not expecting >a low-blow from WW, and frankly the more things like this they do, the >less players (or should I say, 'payers') will go for their 'tricks', and >ultimately, their products. Do you think White Wolf is in this NOT to make money? Sure, I bet they enjoy creating a fun game as much as the next one of us, and it's certainly better work than digging ditches. But the point is to SELL the set itself, and one thing they need to do right now is get NEW players interested... not cater to existing ones. I also don't think that it was -necessarily- a deliberate "trick". I don't see where they ever advertised Lucita as "promo-only" - so either they intended her to be promo-only and changed their minds later (and it's a damn good thing they DIDN'T accidentally advertise her as promo-only or there would be a huge stink), or they always intended her to be in the precons and just didn't bother telling you, since she hit DragonCon in early July and the set wouldn't be released until late October. I still don't see what the big deal is, frankly. You mention the previous example (Mariana Gilbert, Dan Murdock), but she was ALWAYS available by simply sending off a SASE to Wizards, and then presto, you got one. It was never intended to be a bonus to the "existing" players only. I simply CANNOT understand why it matters so much that current players have a card that others don't? To lord it over the newbies? Sheesh. > "Oh, poor thing, he was cheated...", right? But how much does an >antagonizing policy sell? Shameless hyperbole. You weren't cheated, and you weren't deliberately antagonized. If you feel that way, you need to calm down and come back to this reality. >> On the other hand, "promo-only" cards NEED to be announced as such, >> right away, so that as many people as possible have a shot at getting >> one. > > This is why people rushed to buy the magazine: they thought this >was the case, since the previous ones were as well. You can't expect a >VtES player to know the examples of other companies, but I'm sure this was >intentional. The previous ones were NOT what I consider "promo-only". If you can get one, in some fashion at any point in time, but can get one in a magazine EARLY, it is simply a promotional card. Mariana and Dan were promo cards, and I suppose fit ONE definition of "promo only" in that they were never released in a set, but there really is no difference between sending a SASE to Wizards and buying a preconstructed starter deck, except the deck's more expensive. So think of it this way - if you got it in Inquest, you got it early and cheaper, probably. Bonus for you! >> If they won't be available later, it is mandatory to make sure >> that everyone who knows of the card realizes that it's "now or never", >> or there will be a lot of bad press about creating artificial rarities >> by "un-printing" cards. This is one reason I don't like promo-only >> cards - they DO create an artificial demand, and some people will >> always be left out and be ticked. > > Unless they are freely given provided you take some other >activity, such as sending your info to the company or the local Prince. >This has been done a million times. OK, I suppose I should use the words "limited promotion" for releasing the card only in a certain Inquest and never again, instead of "promo-only". Again, as far as having the card goes, there is no effective difference between promo-only and promo, except that you get the card early and possibly cheaper. What is the big deal? >> Neither Inquest, Scrye, or White Wolf will cry even one solitary salty >> tear in their beer if the presence of one promo card causes an >> "unnecessary" run on print copies of a magazine. In fact, they >> probably would lose their shit and roller-blade through the office >> wearing a lampshade on their head, yelling "YIPPEE!" Something like >> that happening is every promoter's dream. Inquest would love it - >> they will sell more in the future because of visibly increased demand. >> WW would love it - they ALSO will sell more, and Inquest will be >> ever-so-happy to give them cheaper article space and more insert room, >> since last time they did they sold out their mag copies. Everyone >> wins, and so do the players - they get more stuff in the future. > > Yes, but this (IMHO) low trick will only work once, won't it? >Also, it will serve to remind them that WW isn't always sugar for them. >They could be reminded of this a bit later, if at all, with better >results. Think it'll only work once? You better think again. It'll work plenty of times as designed. It may not create such an insane run on the magazine as previously, but demand WILL go up by the card's inclusion - simple fact. And I repeat, anyone thinking that WW is going to tell you every single bit of their plans so that you don't get slightly frosted over a promo card that, god forbid, people besides you are ABLE TO GET, ... well, wake up. Good business doesn't work that way, and most people know it and just accept it. I have little sympathy for anyone who went out and bought ten copies of Inquest, as this smacks of "hoarding and resale" to me - something no collectibles company in its right mind provides such an easy means of doing. > Maybe this will bounce back on them, maybe not. Who knows? All I'm >saying is that WW are, for some, not held in so much grace as before this >incident. And that's a fact. "incident"? *snort* "Drop in the (empty) bucket". God forbid White Wolf should try to make money off their game. Look at the expansion announcement for Final Nights. See where it says "ONLY IF SALES TARGETS FOR SABBAT WAR ARE MET"? Think on that. [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes: >>is a number-limited vs. a time-limited vs. a print-to-order run. It helps >>people decide how to act in pursuit of their particular collecting habits >>and motivations. > >It puts the player -totally- in the driver's seat and strikingly >reduces the "promotional" value of the card. If you KNOW that it will >be a normal-rarity vampire in the next expansion, why bother spending >any special effort in getting one a couple months ahead of time? And >really, most people wouldn't. ... >>No, the company isn't obligated to release any information at all. But >>there's no reason to hold back on something like this. And I think if > >There's no reason to LIE on something like this. There are several >reasons to hold back if it's a "promo" card - first being that people >should know the difference between "promo ONLY" and "promo". I don't >recall ever hearing Lucita advertised as "promo ONLY" - if WW did, >that's a screwup on their part and bad cess to them. So "promo" just >means "you're getting this cool vamp now - you'll probably get more of >this vamp later, but we aren't going to tell you how or when." And >the whole promotional aspect is reduced minimally, if at all, since >nobody wants to wait around for something they don't KNOW about. > >On the other hand, "promo-only" cards NEED to be announced as such, So you're saying you don't take issue with announcing the nature of a "promo-only" vs. a "promo-prerelease" (a term I'll use for what they're doing for Lucita, for lack of anything better), just with the question of how the latter one would be rereleased later? That would be reasonable enough were this Magic and you knew the product was ultimately going to come out. The trouble is, with Jyhad constantly being on the edge of being cancelled, the difference between rereleasing Lucita in Sabbat War and rereleasing her in the next expansion may well turn out to be EXACTLY the difference between her becoming a promo-only and a promo-prerelease card. Witness Steve Weick's statement about what the release of "Final Nights" hinges upon. The frankness of this announcement was very good, benificial to both White Wolf and the players. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd like see in their handling of promos. Fred

On 18 Sep 2000 20:08:29 GMT, fre...@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) wrote: >So you're saying you don't take issue with announcing the nature of a >"promo-only" vs. a "promo-prerelease" (a term I'll use for what they're >doing for Lucita, for lack of anything better), just with the question >of how the latter one would be rereleased later? That would be reasonable Spot on. If it's never going to be rereleased, I want to know THAT. But otherwise, I don't care. I'll buy as many as I actually WANT, as opposed to either some excessive collectors' frenzy in hopes of making money, or total apathy ("aw, i can always get it later"). >enough were this Magic and you knew the product was ultimately going to >come out. The trouble is, with Jyhad constantly being on the edge of being >cancelled, the difference between rereleasing Lucita in Sabbat War and Right now I don't consider it on the edge of being cancelled at all. There is a good pile of interest in Sabbat War. V:TES is right on the edge, in fact, of coming back strongly. We, the players, have a lot of influence in making that happen, so I don't worry too much that it's about to die. Now, that said: if V:TES DOES fail this time around, it will be a dead game, never to be revived. Two-time losers don't make it in this industry. It may still be played, and I may still play it, but I will really just not give a damn about whether or not my Lucitas are going to be re-released - or, a better example, whether I get a copy of Sascha Vykos or not. I don't invest emotional energy in dead games, see. >rereleasing her in the next expansion may well turn out to be EXACTLY >the difference between her becoming a promo-only and a promo-prerelease >card. Witness Steve Weick's statement about what the release of "Final >Nights" hinges upon. The frankness of this announcement was very good, >benificial to both White Wolf and the players. This is exactly the kind >of thing I'd like see in their handling of promos. The statement about the development of Final Nights is also very White-Wolf serving, and can also be seen as a crystal clear warning. We have been clamouring for this expansion and shouting that "we're worth it!" - now if we do not produce, and meet the sales targets in some form, we are going to get tossed in the rubbish bin. The announcement is extremely good business for them, and also happens to contain cool information for us - that Final Nights is in the works. Thus, it is a Good Thing for everyone involved. Notice that the order of priority for that statement goes something like "White Wolf > Us." =) Handling promo cards can work in a similar fashion, but keep in mind that when that order of priority gets reversed, stuff tends to go badly for a company. It HAS to make good business sense, or they won't/shouldn't do it. [ quoted text not captured ]

>At least you know that Sasha will be like this before hand, this seems >to be a good faith effort. yeah but you can go to the rpg stuff and find out what she is like. > >About the sleeves: I presonally hate sleeves and would love to have a >legal version of Lucita to play with. Also, you'll have 2 variations of >Lucita, one odd shaped one and one correct one. The odd shaped one >should have more value, shouldn't it? it was released in less quanity >and the difference is easy to spot. Let's think of the Inquest Lucita >as a moist meaty treat. oh fine... i'll just explain that the promo we thought was cool is now not cool nor easily playable once the reprinted one comes out. great - i'll just explain that to the 12 or 14 new players i'm involved with who are already having a tough enought itme. anam

<legb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8q4npa$t0c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > <snip> > > > > Every single M:TG and Pokemon insert card ever has been published with > > either the next set or the one after. > > i believe there's at least one exception to that - Nalathni Dragon. I don't consider this a true "insert" card, since it was originally obtained at DragonCon and *later* reprinted in Duelist magazine due to demand. Six of one, half-dozen of the other, as my Mom likes to say. :)

"Frederick Scott" <fre...@netcom.com> wrote in message news:8q58s6$oei$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > > legb...@my-deja.com writes: > > ><snip> > >> > >> Every single M:TG and Pokemon insert card ever has been published with > >> either the next set or the one after. > > > >i believe there's at least one exception to that - Nalathni Dragon. > > Actually, there were five "book cards" (cards that could only be obtained > using the coupon printed in a bood) in Magic as well: Arena, Sewers of > Estark, Windseeker Centaur, Giant Badger, and Mana Crypt. > > Of all the promo cards, only Mana Crypt was a "tournament card". And of > the rest, Arena was the only other one that held more than marginal value, > because it made an interesting card for certain theme decks. > > Fred There's also all the "prize" and "ultra-rare" cards, like Foil Lightning Bolt, et. al. I guess those have to be considered separate, distinct cards as well.

> Find the closest V:EKN Prince to you, and go play with them. They > should be able to get a hold of the old promo vamps. You can look > at the V:EKN Prince List by going to: > and find the VTES page and then find the V:EKN Prince List. Umm, I'm not too sure about that, Mike. I don't think that WW has any of the old promo cards and I *know* WotC doesn't. I have only a very few left from a batch that Jennifer sent me last year and my efforts to get a few more for the new players around here have not been successful. :( Sorrow

In article <rdvw5.10437$SN6.2...@news4.giganews.com>, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> wrote: > Find the closest V:EKN Prince to you, and go play with them. They should be > able to get a hold of the old promo vamps. You can look at the V:EKN Prince > List by going to: > > http://www.white-wolf.com/ > > and find the VTES page and then find the V:EKN Prince List. > > Lee Fent wrote in message <39c2614d....@news.ionet.net>... > >Really? What would need to be done to secure these fabled promo's? > > > >Lee > > > > > >On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:25:10 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> > >wrote: > > > >> > >>fre...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8prpdr$521$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... > >>>Not to be bitchy, but that sucks! > >>> > >>>WW has never relised there old promo cards, why > >>>were we to belive that they would relise these > >>>ones. I actuly hunted down mutiple copies of the > >>>losambra promo, thinking that I would never get a > >>>chance to get them again. Now your all saying that > >>>sorry they are only promo cards because you will > >>>see them early not cards that you will never see > >>>again like the earler jyhad promos. > >>> > >>>Again this sucks! > >> > >>The original promo vamps (Dan Murdock and Marianne Gilbert) have been > >>available from any V:EKN Prince for some time. They are by no means > special > >>or more valuable just because they are promo vamps. If you expected (as I > >>did, either wisely or foolishly) that the distribution of the new promo > >>vamps was to be the same as before, then you should also be able to get > them > >>from a V:EKN Prince once Sabbat War is out. > >> > >> > > > > My closest VKEN Prince is 1000 km away from me... [ quoted text not captured ]