Black Sunrise: KMW Preview Card

Black Sunrise Reaction Only usable by a tapped vampire. [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something you control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. QUI gets a top-notch untapping reaction. It's cheaper than Second Tradition, Read the Winds or Eternal Vigilance. It's more flexible than Guard Dogs or Rat's Warning. Use it to block using Assamite AUS, intercept locations and Black Hand reactions. Optionally, don't bother with the intercept. Fail to block and play reaction cards like bounce, Delaying Tactics or Foul Blood. Quite a nice card for a clan that historically has had trouble protecting its pool. Can't wait to see what Serpentis, Necromancy and Chimestry get. As an aside, this is the first wake-type card usable by an ally. Talaq the Immortal can play it.

Emmit Svenson wrote: > Black Sunrise > Reaction > Only usable by a tapped vampire. > [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something you > control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. [clip] > As an aside, this is the first wake-type card usable by an ally. Talaq > the Immortal can play it. Am I missing something here? "This vampire untaps and attempts to block." Don't see any allies playing this card. :-) -Robert

[ quoted text not captured ] >From the Monger: Talaq may play cards that require basic Quietus or basic Thaumaturgy as a vampire with a capacity of 3. Any cost in blood is paid with his life. If a card would give him blood, give him life. Talaq gets an optional maneuver each combat. "as a vampire" is the key phrase. -tpl

I believe this is the key sentence: 'Only usable by a tapped vampire.'

Robert Goudie <rob...@vtesinla.org> wrote: > Emmit Svenson wrote: >> Black Sunrise >> Reaction >> Only usable by a tapped vampire. >> [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something > you >> control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. >> [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? Thanks. :)

"tobinator" <tobin...@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:1105377508....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] As I read it, he could as well. By his card text he counts as a vampire with regards to basic Qui and Thau. -- Colin "Eryx" Goodman Cambridge UK http://www.geocities.com/eryx_uk/Cambridge_by_night.html

"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:eYOdnWH1_aN...@comcast.com... [ quoted text not captured ] The phrase "any action" does, in general, yes. But the card cannot be played on those, since it requires a block attempt. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

"Colin Goodman" <colin.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:g0zEd.379$fa2...@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net... > "tobinator" <tobin...@adelphia.net> wrote in message > > Robert Goudie wrote: > >> Emmit Svenson wrote: > >> > Black Sunrise > >> > As an aside, this is the first wake-type card usable by an ally. > >> Talaq > >> > the Immortal can play it. > >> > >> Am I missing something here? "This vampire untaps and attempts to > >> block." Don't see any allies playing this card. :-) > >> > > "as a vampire" is the key phrase. > > As I read it, he could as well. By his card text he counts as a vampire with > regards to basic Qui and Thau. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jozxyqk wrote: > > Emmit Svenson wrote: > >> Black Sunrise > >> Reaction > >> Only usable by a tapped vampire. > >> [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something > > you > >> control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > >> [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. > > Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. > Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? I will include the answer to that question in the next State the Obvious newsletter. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] Doh! Oh, that Talaq. Talaq--*the Immortal*. Yes, of course. I knew that. I just thought you meant Talaq *the Old Lady* who lives down the street from me and talks to her garden gnomes. [*leaving to get more coffee now...*] -Robert

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:34fsupF...@individual.net... > "Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message > news:eYOdnWH1_aN...@comcast.com... > > Robert Goudie <rob...@vtesinla.org> wrote: > > > Emmit Svenson wrote: > > >> Black Sunrise > > >> Reaction > > >> Only usable by a tapped vampire. > > >> [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something > > > you > > >> control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > > >> [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. > > > > Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. > > Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? > > > The phrase "any action" does, in general, yes. > > But the card cannot be played on those, since it requires a > block attempt. I'm missing something in the logic here . . . how does "usable on any action" and "this vampire untaps and attempts to block" not mean that this vampire can untap and attempt to block any action, no matter who does it? It seems that the "usable on any action" could easily be read to overrule any "only prey and predator can block" restrictions. Neil

> > > Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. > > > Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? > > > > The phrase "any action" does, in general, yes. > > > > But the card cannot be played on those, since it requires a > > block attempt. > > I'm missing something in the logic here . . . how does "usable on any > action" and "this vampire untaps and attempts to block" not mean that this > vampire can untap and attempt to block any action, no matter who does it? > It seems that the "usable on any action" could easily be read to overrule > any "only prey and predator can block" restrictions. It works the same way as 2nd, EV or RtW. If you give Anneke QUI she will be able to play it on every action. sinaath

De:Emmit Svenson (emmits...@hotmail.com) Assunto:Black Sunrise: KMW Preview Card Newsgroups:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Data:2005-01-10 08:56:40 PST >Black Sunrise >Reaction >Only usable by a tapped vampire. >[qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something you >control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. >[QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. >QUI gets a top-notch untapping reaction. It's cheaper than Second >Tradition, Read the Winds or Eternal Vigilance. It's more flexible >than Guard Dogs or Rat's Warning. Use it to block using Assamite AUS, >intercept locations and Black Hand reactions. Optionally, don't >bother with the intercept. Fail to block and play reaction cards like >bounce, Delaying Tactics or Foul Blood. Quite a nice card for a clan >that historically has had trouble protecting its pool. Can't wait to >see what Serpentis, Necromancy and Chimestry get. I don't get it... Is it so different from WWEF or Forced Awakening? Ok it untaps the vampire in case the block fails. I don't feel it's like 2nd Trad or Read the Winds since it gives no Intercept! That would be useful to Assamite who has problems getting intercept. Play bounce?? What bounce? .- Luis Duarte

[ quoted text not captured ] Oops, ignore my previous aborted accidentally-posted response to this thread. What I was going to say was.. Ahh, this is one of the few reasons the wording is as it is. Anneke cannot use this card at inferior along with her ability, but she can use it at superior with her ability. Although I would have sacrificed the ever-so-powerful Anneke With Quietus angle, to have the superior worded as "As above, but usable on undirected actions" instead... :)

> > > > Emmit Svenson wrote: > > > >> Black Sunrise > > > >> Reaction > > > >> Only usable by a tapped vampire. > > > >> [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something > > > > you > > > >> control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > > > >> [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. > > > > > > Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. > > > Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? > > > > > > The phrase "any action" does, in general, yes. > > > > But the card cannot be played on those, since it requires a > > block attempt. > > I'm missing something in the logic here . . . how does "usable on any > action" and "this vampire untaps and attempts to block" not mean that this > vampire can untap and attempt to block any action, no matter who does it? > It seems that the "usable on any action" could easily be read to overrule > any "only prey and predator can block" restrictions. > This card does not override the "only minions of your predator or prey may block" rule. Compare its text with Eagle's Sight: Eagle's Sight [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U, BH:PM3] Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Auspex [aus] This reacting vampire gets +1 intercept. [AUS] This reacting vampire attempts to block the current action, ignoring the normal prey, predator or target restrictions for blocking actions. Likewise, you cannot play either of them when the minion in question is the target of a Seduction.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:23:37 -0600, Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] but that would make it not usable when: your prey bleeds his prey, you play WwEF, Superior Eagle's Sight, and THEN Black Sunrise to untap and attempt to block! aha! see, they thought of everything, those designers. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] Heh, unfortunately I have to point out that this won't work, since the latest text of Eagle's Sight says "attempts to block", not "may attempt to block." So since your minion is already attempting to block, you couldn't play another "attempts to block" effect, since he's already attempting to block.

> I don't get it... Is it so different from WWEF or Forced Awakening? > Ok it untaps the vampire in case the block fails. > > I don't feel it's like 2nd Trad or Read the Winds since it gives no Intercept! > That would be useful to Assamite who has problems getting intercept. > > Play bounce?? What bounce? > > .- Luis Duarte Currently there are a few assamites with access to dom/DOM. Several with aus/AUS (telepathic counter?) and fortitude (friend of mine). And, hey, we haven't seen group 4 assamites yet. Perhaps they have plenty of DOM vamps.

> >> > > Just to get the obvious "no" out of the way.. > >> > > Does "any action" include actions you couldn't normally block? > >> > > >> > The phrase "any action" does, in general, yes. > >> > > >> > But the card cannot be played on those, since it requires a > >> > block attempt. > >> > >> I'm missing something in the logic here . . . how does "usable on any > >> action" and "this vampire untaps and attempts to block" not mean that this > >> vampire can untap and attempt to block any action, no matter who does it? > >> It seems that the "usable on any action" could easily be read to overrule > >> any "only prey and predator can block" restrictions. > > > It works the same way as 2nd, EV or RtW. > > If you give Anneke QUI she will be able to play it on every action. > > Oops, ignore my previous aborted accidentally-posted response to this thread. > What I was going to say was.. > > Ahh, this is one of the few reasons the wording is as it is. > Anneke cannot use this card at inferior along with her ability, but she can > use it at superior with her ability. Well I wrote QUI, not qui.. maybe I shuld put it in [] > Although I would have sacrificed the ever-so-powerful Anneke With Quietus > angle, to have the superior worded as "As above, but usable on undirected > actions" instead... :) All I wanted to point, is this card can be used on any action, provided the vampire is able to block that action. Anneke with [QUI] is the only one who can make it. I'm not sure if it can be used with Eagle's Sight. sinaath

[ quoted text not captured ] And, this card isn't for Assamites only.. it's quietus! Look at Lucas Halton and his ability. sinaath

LSJ wrote: > > > "as a vampire" is the key phrase. > > > > As I read it, he could as well. By his card text he counts as a vampire with > > regards to basic Qui and Thau. > > Correct. in other words, the 'as a vampire' clause on Talaq enables him to play this card... makes perfect sense, my bad earlier.

Luis Duarte wrote: > I don't get it... Is it so different from WWEF or Forced Awakening? > Ok it untaps the vampire in case the block fails. It doesn't reduce your hand size, it doesn't cost a blood if you don't block, and as you note, you untap. Only 40 vampires and one ally can play it. That makes it pretty different. > I don't feel it's like 2nd Trad or Read the Winds since it gives no > Intercept! That would be useful to Assamite who has problems getting > intercept. It would be useful if the card granted intercept. But it's useful in a different way that it doesn't. You can play it on +1 stealth actions, fail to block and stay untapped, which is great cycling and also allows the use of other reactions. It's also cheaper than 2nd Tradition or Read the Winds, and doesn't reduce your hand size. > Play bounce?? What bounce? Seven vampires have at least qui/dom, good for Seduction & Deed the Heart's Desire. Six have at least qui/AUS, which mixes well with all the qui/aus.

"Emmit Svenson" <emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1105459099.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > It would be useful if the card granted intercept. But it's useful in a > different way that it doesn't. You can play it on +1 stealth actions, > fail to block and stay untapped, which is great cycling and also allows > the use of other reactions. I'm thinking Foul Blood after a failed block on a hunt. Fred

"Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> wrote in message news:34htatF...@individual.net... > Currently there are a few assamites with access to dom/DOM. Several with > aus/AUS (telepathic counter?) and fortitude (friend of mine). > > And, hey, we haven't seen group 4 assamites yet. Perhaps they have plenty of > DOM vamps. Except for Antara and Reza Fatir, The Dark Angel, of course. :-) Antara has [aus], but neither of them have [dom]... but yeah, it's still possible that group 4 Assamites will have some Dominate. Josh back to work! back to work!

[ quoted text not captured ] I don't think it's such a great idea to mix cards that require a block attempt with bounce all the time anyway. Sometimes you might want to just launch the bleed without trying to block (maybe you've got a bruise & bleed, heavy on the bruise, predator). That being said, there's probably some decent use for the card. Say you've got tapped Abd al-Rashid with Atonement and a Sport Bike. If you're playing Wake and Abd fails the first block you'll need another Wake. With Black Sunrise, he doesn't (barring superior Faceless Night and similar effects of course). Not terrible in a deck that just tries to intercept just a little. There's also the possibility of Ur-Shulgi and Obedience in a deck that doesn't want to fight, I guess. Personally, I'm holding out for a vampire with dem/QUI. Blessing of Chaos + Black Sunrise = so many decks screwed. Sure, you can already do that (Blessing + Eternal Vigilance?), but this way you might get to do it using Quietus and not sucking. Matt Morgan

Emmit Svenson wrote: > Black Sunrise > Reaction > Only usable by a tapped vampire. > [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something you > control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. Hey Design Team, THANKS! Jeff

"Emmit Svenson" <emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1105376196.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Black Sunrise > Reaction > Only usable by a tapped vampire. > [qui]: Only usable during a [D] action directed at you or something you > control. This vampire untaps and attempts to block. > [QUI]: As above, but usable on any action. > > QUI gets a top-notch untapping reaction. It's cheaper than Second > Tradition, Read the Winds or Eternal Vigilance. It's more flexible > than Guard Dogs or Rat's Warning. Use it to block using Assamite AUS, > intercept locations and Black Hand reactions. Optionally, don't > bother with the intercept. Fail to block and play reaction cards like > bounce, Delaying Tactics or Foul Blood. Quite a nice card for a clan > that historically has had trouble protecting its pool. Can't wait to > see what Serpentis, Necromancy and Chimestry get. > > As an aside, this is the first wake-type card usable by an ally. Talaq > the Immortal can play it. Nah man, Black Sunrise and Atonement for all those juicy low cap Assimites. :) -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Where is this card pictured? Thanks, Bob

BSynnott wrote: > Where is this card pictured? WW VTES Homepage -> What Is VTES -> Expansions -> Kindred Most Wanted Or just click the Kindred Most Wanted flash animation at the top of the WW page. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> escribió en el mensaje news:dRSEd.49971$F25.26965@okepread07... [ quoted text not captured ] Personally, I think we'll see mostly used in 5 caps with atonement and magnums decks.