Sudario Recursion?

So I have been getting an awful lot of mileage out of Sudario Refraction recently, in the sense that I play one, get it into the ash heap, and then play another one, putting 2 cards I need and the other Sudario back on top of my deck, allowing me to infinitely cycle the Sudarios (well, infinite in that I can keep doing that, not that I can do it a million times at once or anything). Is there some errata or something I can't find that removes them from the game when you use one? Thanks, -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Nope, that's how you use 'em! Saw a gio shambling deck with a pile of masters (and liquidation) and about 5 Sudario in the Dutch ECQ final (my pred). Nasty card-control.

[ quoted text not captured ] I think it's actually a bit better than that. The moment you play a Sudario, it goes to the ash heap, so I think you can name itself immediately. To the best of my knowledge, there's no errata of the sort you're searching for. Ankur

"Ankur Gupta" <agu...@cs.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.63.06...@fiordland.cs.duke.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] What the previous poster is doing is fine, AFAIK. But I don't think a Sudario Refraction can target itself in the ash heap, if that's what you're suggesting. According to the rulings document, http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=rulings, under the heading 'Actions:', the first paragraph reads, "Between the time the action card (including ally, equipment, retainer, and political action cards) is played and the action completely resolved, the action card is neither in play nor in the ash heap. When the action is resolved, the card is burned or put in play as appropriate." Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/99514cc2cac220ae http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ce10e8bf29adec08 As to the initial question, Sudario Refraction has no errata to remove it from the game.

LSJ wrote: > As to the initial question, Sudario Refraction has no errata to remove > it from the game. Very nice. Thanks! -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Ah, I missed that. It's good I suggested it then, because it was dead wrong and I learned something. :) Ankur

pd...@lightlink.com escreveu: [ quoted text not captured ] Playing Gios, Peter? Share it with us Gio fans. It's always good to see the necro-love spawning babies, er, I mean decks ;) Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo wrote: > Playing Gios, Peter? Share it with us Gio fans. It's always good to see > the necro-love spawning babies, er, I mean decks ;) Heh. I think my current deck looks like this: 1x Rafaele (6) NEC 2x Isabel (5) DOM, nec 2x Le Din Tho (5) NEC, dom 2x Gloria (4) DOM, nec 1x Francesca (4) dom, nec 2x Lia (3) dom, nec 1x Rudolpho (3) NEC 1x Cristophero (3) nec 4x Blood Doll 3x Path of Bone 2x Acquired Ventrue Assets 1x Giant's Blood 1x Dis Pater 1x Powerbase: Cape Verde 1x Mob Connections 1x Morgue Hunting Ground 1x Specialization 1x Leonardo, Mortician 18x Shambling Hordes 10x Call the Hungry Dead 8x Spiritual Intervention 6x Spectral Divination 1x Haunt 9x Deflection 8x Conditioning 2x Far Mastery 6x Wake 3x Sudario Refraction 1x Consume the Dead 2x FBI Special Affairs Division This deck is actually pretty effective, and wins games on a regular basis. The Hordes are good for blocking Rushes and for degrading opposing minions in the long run, and I find that the lack of much Horde Infrastructure (i.e. no Traps, Pulled Fangs, Fake Outs, whatever) makes the deck run much better than when it had Horde support cards. I figure a token Mob Connections is solid, and the FBI Special Affairs event is good for more anti-Rush defense (you Rush, I block with Hordes, hit you for 4, get killed, and hit you for 2 more), but if I were playing this in competition, I'd swap out one of them for a The Unmaskening (which is in another deck right now :-) Sadly, though, the reality of the reason this deck does well is, well, 'cause it has Dominate. It is basically a 72 card sneak and bleed deck with 18 Shambling Hordes thrown in. Man. Dominate. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Sudario Refraction is a great card, I just won a 15 players tournament yesterday with a Shambling Horde - Liquidation deck. I think the original deck idea belongs to Amiel Feldman andJulien M. I will post the decklist along with the tournament report soon. Marc Desaulniers - Fouez

pd...@lightlink.com escreveu: >The Hordes are good for blocking Rushes and for degrading > opposing minions in the long run, and I find that the lack of much > Horde Infrastructure (i.e. no Traps, Pulled Fangs, Fake Outs, whatever) > makes the deck run much better than when it had Horde support cards. > Sadly, though, the reality of the reason this deck does well is, well, > 'cause it has Dominate. It is basically a 72 card sneak and bleed deck > with 18 Shambling Hordes thrown in. Man. Dominate. > -Peter Yeah, that's for sure. I'm playing a Samedi Shambling Hordes + Reanimated Corpses deck that uses the same principle even without Dominate - a bunch of minions who can bleed for 2 (the Corpses, The Baron, Reg and pretty often even Jorge de la Muerte since a lot of people play Sabbat regularly here) and the Hordes do pretty much the defensive job you're mentioned. I kept the Memories of Mortality in though. Of course, it doesn't compare to what dominate weenies can do, but it's fun nonetheless. The meta in here is full of setup lately, so one can afford bringing up big Samedis and refilling them with Restoration and Perfectionist after a Freak Drive. I always got squashed when I played this abomination of a deck in WebVTES though :P Fabio "Sooner" Macedo