Centralized Background Check and Concealed Weapon

Hi all, esp. LSJ Since I couldn't find any official word on this and the guys in the german VEKN Forum are divided in this question, I post it here in the hope of getting an official clarification/ruling: Situation: Centralized Background Check is in play, a fight involving Vampire A is just starting.. Can Vampire A play Concealed Weapon and equip qith a Magnum? Or, in other words, does CW check for the unmodified cost of the Magnum or does CBC modify the cost in a way that you cannot Conceal Magnums any more? Thx in advance -- Holger Christiansen Domain of Bochum, Germany

Holger Christiansen wrote: > Hi all, esp. LSJ > > Since I couldn't find any official word on this and the guys in the > german VEKN Forum are divided in this question, I post it here in the > hope of getting an official clarification/ruling: Card text: "Weapons cost an additional pool" > Situation: > > Centralized Background Check is in play, a fight involving Vampire A > is just starting.. > > Can Vampire A play Concealed Weapon and equip qith a Magnum? No. A weapon that costs 3 pool cannot be Concealed out. > Or, in other words, does CW check for the unmodified cost of the > Magnum or does CBC modify the cost in a way that you cannot Conceal > Magnums any more? CW checks the cost. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Or, in other words, does CW check for the unmodified cost of the >> Magnum or does CBC modify the cost in a way that you cannot Conceal >> Magnums any more? > CW checks the cost. Note that this also checks for cost reduction. Under Concealed Background Check, Black Cat is still free to "Conceal Out" a .44 (at a cost of 2). Under normal circumstances, Black Cat may Conceal a Combat Shotgun.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Or, in other words, does CW check for the unmodified cost of the >> Magnum or does CBC modify the cost in a way that you cannot Conceal >> Magnums any more? > CW checks the cost. Note that this includes cost reduction. Black Cat can Conceal out a .44 under Centralized Background Check, or a Combat Shotgun normally.

[ quoted text not captured ] >> CW checks the cost. [ quoted text not captured ] Sorry for the double-post-reply, my newsreader was being a jerk this morning.

Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:<%fTEc.7026$wY5.1365@attbi_s54>... > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Note that this also checks for cost reduction. > Under Concealed Background Check, Black Cat is still free to "Conceal Out" > a .44 (at a cost of 2). > > Under normal circumstances, Black Cat may Conceal a Combat Shotgun. I was just looking for other weapons that Black Cat could use with Concealed Weapon and there are no others--only Combat Shotgun. It might be nice if she had other weapon options available to her. A quick survey reveals 7 weapons cost zero pool, 11 cost one, 16 cost two, 5 cost three, 2 cost four, and 1 costs five. Maybe some more 3-pool weapons would be nice to have: Weapon: Gun 3 pool 2R each strike, with 2 optional maneuvers each combat. Weapon: Gun 3 pool 3R each strike Good Chainsaw Melee Weapon 3 pool 3 damage each strike Nothing terribly interesting of course, but if they can be Concealed out, they can't be too interesting either.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<XdSEc.48085$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... > Holger Christiansen wrote: > > > Hi all, esp. LSJ > > > > Since I couldn't find any official word on this and the guys in the > > german VEKN Forum are divided in this question, I post it here in the > > hope of getting an official clarification/ruling: > > Card text: "Weapons cost an additional pool" > > > Situation: > > > > Centralized Background Check is in play, a fight involving Vampire A > > is just starting.. > > > > Can Vampire A play Concealed Weapon and equip qith a Magnum? > > No. A weapon that costs 3 pool cannot be Concealed out. > > > Or, in other words, does CW check for the unmodified cost of the > > Magnum or does CBC modify the cost in a way that you cannot Conceal > > Magnums any more? > > CW checks the cost. What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you come out with a card that universally screws most weapons. What's that all about?!? Very disappointing. Why did this happen??? Just looking for answers... Cheers, Howard

"HD" <hdma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c0922a66.04070...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Usually the official authorities won't answer "why" questions, but I might speculate that the Concealed .44 Magnum decks have become *so* powerful/effective since the Concealed Weapon change that it was thought they might need toning down a bit. I would probably be willing to argue that the weenie CEL Concealed .44 bleed/rush deck is the most significant tier-one archetype to appear in the past few years (not to mention concealed .44 Anarch decks with Diversion, etc). That's not to say that I think Centralized Background Check is necessarily "the right way" to deal with the problem of such decks, if such decks are indeed a problem. I'm not usually a big fan of trying to disincentivize decks by creating hoser cards against them. The existence of "you can't play your game now" effects is rarely fun on either side of the table. (and although CBC won't always make a Concealed .44 deck unable to play its game at all, having to try for 1 stealth equip actions is pretty rough.) Josh we're choking on it

HD wrote: > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you > come out with a card that universally screws most weapons. What's > that all about?!? Mixed messages. > Very disappointing. Why did this happen??? > > Just looking for answers... Please. Who uses hosers anyways? --Colin McGuigan

HD wrote: > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you > come out with a card that universally screws most weapons. What's > that all about?!? > > Very disappointing. Why did this happen??? > > Just looking for answers... Variety. Some people prefer that not all cards and effects are the same. See also making events and making cards that remove events. Locations and Arson. Ad infinitum. [ quoted text not captured ]

Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote: > Please. Who uses hosers anyways? Try using Centralized Background Check in a POT/IG deck. You'll be hap-hap-happy! :) > --Colin McGuigan Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

HD wrote: > > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you Erm, concealed weapon has been in the game since it started in 1994... What's with this 'finally'? //Doc. -- "Wees jezelf, er zijn al zoveel anderen" - Loesje begin Your_MS_program_incorrectly_interprets_this_as_an_attachment.txt

"The Doctor" <D...@freemail.nl> wrote in message news:40E549E0...@freemail.nl... > HD wrote: > > > > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you > > Erm, concealed weapon has been in the game since it started in 1994... > > What's with this 'finally'? > It 'finally' was made discipline-less in the Camarilla base set. DaveZ Atom Weaver

> HD wrote: > > > > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you I think you're totally blowing things out of proportion. Gun decks have gotten some massive boosts in the past few sets. I don't think a single master card to partially counteract them is going to mess things up. Let's take a look: Camarilla: Concealed Weapon is changed to disciplineless. A major boost. (For melee decks, Weighted Walking Stick is very useful. Concealed Weapon is also useful for melee weapons, and the change to "regular strike" is helpful as well). Anarchs: Magazine is now available. Filchware's Pawn Shop is also a nice option. (Banshee Ironwail is pretty kewl for a melee weapon). Black Hand: Gun decks can now give the finger to DotB/Terror Frenzy/Rotschreck with Sire's Index Finger. Gehenna: More options are available with Scattershot and Caseless Rounds. Sure. Centralized Background Check (and Count Germaine for that matter) aren't exactly the most gun-friendly. But I think the gains for gun decks far far exceed the minor losses. Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > Sure. Centralized Background Check (and Count Germaine for that matter) aren't > exactly the most gun-friendly. But I think the gains for gun decks far far > exceed the minor losses. Well, that, and Count Germaine is a huge boost for gun decks in an of himself--CEL, FOR, obf? I think the math does itself... Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "Mr. President, ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." -Elvis

> Well, that, and Count Germaine is a huge boost for gun decks in an of > himself--CEL, FOR, obf? I think the math does itself... Filchware's Pawn Shop + Count Germaine should make for a good combo, too. After all, you dont mind them getting weapons they can't use against you, and the more damage they do to each other with their new toys, the better?

LSJ wrote... > HD wrote: > > What's going on? You guys finally made weapons a more viable option > > in the game with Concealed Weapon and other such cards, AND THEN you > > come out with a card that universally screws most weapons. What's > > that all about?!? > > > > Very disappointing. Why did this happen??? > > > > Just looking for answers... > > Variety. Some people prefer that not all cards and effects are the > same. Sure, variety is great. And I didn't really mind Central Background check until I heard that it ruins a Concealed Weapon & .44 Magnum combination. That's a huge effect... especially since it also impacts several other decks with just that one card. I just thought that the idea was to make weapons a more useful part of the game since they often show up in the World of Darkness. Personally, I was hoping that we might see a few more useful weapons that add even more flavor to the game (baseball bat, hunting knife, etc.) rather than making them a more fragile strategy. Then again, maybe it won't come up that often and will turn out to be no big deal. Is anyone seeing it in play? How has it impacted your local playgroup? > See also making events and making cards that remove events. > Locations and Arson. > Ad infinitum. Ok, I see your point. And I guess that it can also be countered with a Sudden Reversal... Even so, I'm still a little concerned about the ability to practically shut down a deck in one move. And just when I started having fun with .44 Magnums again. Doh! BTW - Thanks for taking the time to answer. It's always helpful. :o) Speaking of which... Is there any way to remove Centralized Background Check once it's in play? And does Sudden Reversal stop it? (why not ask as long as we are on the topic - just in case) Cheers, Howard

HD wrote: > Speaking of which... Is there any way to remove Centralized > Background Check once it's in play? Yes. Oust the controller. Arson. Rampage. Bomb. The Bruisers. Conquest of Humanity. Dominique. Haunt. Smash and Grab. Unnatural Disaster. Zoning Board. > And does Sudden Reversal stop it? It is a master card, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote... > HD wrote: > > > Speaking of which... Is there any way to remove Centralized > > Background Check once it's in play? > > Yes. > > Oust the controller. > Arson. > Rampage. > Bomb. > The Bruisers. > Conquest of Humanity. > Dominique. > Haunt. > Smash and Grab. > Unnatural Disaster. > Zoning Board. Oh. Ok... never mind. > > > And does Sudden Reversal stop it? > > It is a master card, yes. Right. There's nothing quite like obvious questions, eh? :o)