We've had a question about the "attempt to back out" clauses on Burning
Touch and Dawn Operation. If a minion plays Burning Touch at inferior
("If this action is blocked, the blocking minion burns one blood or
life before combat begins. Any
minion currently attempting to block may now choose not to block.")
and then plays Dawn Operation at superior
("If this action is blocked, all damage inflicted to all vampires in
the resulting combat is aggravated. Any vampire attempting to block may
now choose not to block. [FOR] As above, but vampires attempting to
block cannot back out.")
Is there a chance.moment in between the two that the blocking minion
can chose to back out? Or at they locked in to the block by the
superior Dawn Operation?
[ quoted text not captured ]
The damage from Burning Touch is not made aggrivated by Dawn Operation.
Burning Touch does damage before combat.
Dawn Operation makes all damage in the ensuing combat aggrivated.
Or am I missing something?
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
> We've had a question about the "attempt to back out" clauses on Burning
> Touch and Dawn Operation. If a minion plays Burning Touch at inferior
> ("If this action is blocked, the blocking minion burns one blood or
> life before combat begins. Any
> minion currently attempting to block may now choose not to block.")
> and then plays Dawn Operation at superior
Why is there a question here? Burning Touch allows the vampire to
choose to not block. If that vampire declines, and another condition
is added to the action, you don't rewind to the previous question. It
has already been answered.
> Is there a chance.moment in between the two that the blocking minion
> can chose to back out? Or at they locked in to the block by the
> superior Dawn Operation?
Yes. The blocking minion may choose not to block when Burning Touch is
played, per card text. If that weren't the case, it wouldn't say so.
Dawn Operation has absolutely no effect at this point, since it has not
been played.
The text on superior Dawn Operation only means that the option to back
out of blocking granted at the inferior version no longer applies. It
does not in any way effect similar clauses on Burning Touch or other
modifiers.
> The damage from Burning Touch is not made aggrivated by Dawn Operation.
>
> Burning Touch does damage before combat.
Burning Touch doesn't do damage.
> Or am I missing something?
The question at hand seems to be over whether or not "but the but
vampires attempting to block cannot back out" on superior Dawn
Operation disables the option to back out given by Burning Touch. As
far as I can tell, it does not.
I think the OP was asking if there is a point in time when the blocker
has already opted to stay after the playing of the Torch and before
Dawn Op takes effect to reverse his decision to not back out.
ie,
A: I block
B: I play Buring Torch
A: I pay 1 blood, I'm still blocking
B: Ok, I play Dawn Op at Superior, Let's get hot and sweaty in the sun
A: Crap, Err... can I reverse my decision for the Burning Torch and
back out?
My answer is no, there is no point in time between the decision made
for Burning Torch and the realistion that a Dawn Op was just played at
superior for you to opt not to block. Combat starts and you take the
aggra damage in Combat for not heeding the warning of a burining
torch...
Jeff
[ quoted text not captured ]
Okay, similar question, just rephrased to actually make more sense (as
a question).
What happens if you play Dawn Op at superior first, and then Burning
Touch at inferior? Does the minion now have the option to decline
blocking?
In other words, does the Burning Touch open up a new window for the
blocking minion to decline the block?
OR:
Does the [FOR] Dawn Op still force the opposing minion to continue
blocking?
Dawn Op: [for] If this action is blocked, all damage inflicted to all
vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. Any vampire attempting
to block may now choose not to block. [FOR] As above, but vampires
attempting to block cannot back out.
Burning Touch: [val] If this action is blocked, the blocking minion
burns one blood or life before combat begins. Any minion currently
attempting to block may now choose not to block.
Personally, I would play the Burning Touch first whenever possible, but
I could forsee a strange corner-case example of this happening when
someone plays a dawn op and then replaces with a Burning Touch.
In my opinion, I think that the Burning Touch played after the Dawn Op
would open up the chance for the opposing minion to back out, as it
gives a new option to back out.
The Name Forgotten wrote:
> Okay, similar question, just rephrased to actually make more sense (as
> a question).
>
> What happens if you play Dawn Op at superior first, and then Burning
> Touch at inferior? Does the minion now have the option to decline
> blocking?
Yes.
> In other words, does the Burning Touch open up a new window for the
> blocking minion to decline the block?
Yes, by card text.
> OR:
>
> Does the [FOR] Dawn Op still force the opposing minion to continue
> blocking?
No.
> Dawn Op: [for] If this action is blocked, all damage inflicted to all
> vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. Any vampire attempting
> to block may now choose not to block. [FOR] As above, but vampires
> attempting to block cannot back out.
>
> Burning Touch: [val] If this action is blocked, the blocking minion
> burns one blood or life before combat begins. Any minion currently
> attempting to block may now choose not to block.
>
> Personally, I would play the Burning Touch first whenever possible, but
> I could forsee a strange corner-case example of this happening when
> someone plays a dawn op and then replaces with a Burning Touch.
>
> In my opinion, I think that the Burning Touch played after the Dawn Op
> would open up the chance for the opposing minion to back out, as it
> gives a new option to back out.
Correct.