Hi !
White Wolf is now selling me (via three different extensions) cards I can
no longer use in White Wolf-sanctionned tournament.
Due to the rarity of the card (2 fixed unco, 1 rare), I think that players
deserve a new card exchange program for these recently banned cards.
That's all.
--
Denis GERARD
aka Richter
http://sabbatinfrance.free.fr
White Wolf is now selling me (via three different extensions) cards I
can
no longer use in White Wolf-sanctionned tournament.
>Due to the rarity of the card (2 fixed unco, 1 rare), I think that
players
>deserve a new card exchange program for these recently banned cards.>That's all.
Denis,
Please send me all your White Wolf Printed DU/KR and I will replace
them with Praxis:Solomons or other appropriate vampire rarity cards.
Please send me all your Succubus Club and I will replace them with
Powerbase Berlin or other appropriate rare cards.
Thanks and I look forward to receiving your cards.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
----- Original Message -----
From: <X_Ze...@cox-internet.com>
>
> Denis,
> Please send me all your White Wolf Printed DU/KR and I will replace
> them with Praxis:Solomons or other appropriate vampire rarity cards.
>
> Please send me all your Succubus Club and I will replace them with
> Powerbase Berlin or other appropriate rare cards.
^_^ Excellent !
But I doubt you can do that for every player in the world...
(and I am sure that you see my initial point)
You would be suprised, but I think it is your who are missing the point
by asking such an obviously silly question.
If you want to play with those cards you still can. You just can't
play with them in a VEKN sanctioned tournament. Just put them in your
Malkavian Princes Madness of the Bard/Return to Innocence/Playing for
Keeps Deck to play for Ante with your own group.
You still own the cards that you bought with your money. What you do
with them is up to you. I am going to use mine to make a Pinata of a
donkey.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
<X_Ze...@cox-internet.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1102358914.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> You would be suprised, but I think it is your who are missing the point
> by asking such an obviously silly question.
>
> If you want to play with those cards you still can. You just can't
> play with them in a VEKN sanctioned tournament. Just put them in your
> Malkavian Princes Madness of the Bard/Return to Innocence/Playing for
> Keeps Deck to play for Ante with your own group.
Too bad my playgroup is Paris, where everybody is allways playing
tournament-available decks...
Btw I am not sure my first question is so silly. The first card exchange
was designed to make the players not feel they were screwed.
What about the players who recently bought a lot of CE Boosters in
order to grab few Succubus Club & table-dancing cards ? Don't you
think they feel a bit screwed ?
I respect your zen attitude but how big do you think your Pinata can
grow over years ?
How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you
handle *with no counterpart at all* ?
Are we only here to buy more an more cards and shut up when they
suddenly become useless ? I do not agree.
Denis
aka Richter
>Too bad my playgroup is Paris, where everybody is allways playing
>tournament-available decks...
Too bad my playgroup is in Lafayette, La and I have to drive 20 miles
to get to it.
Life's just not fair.
>Btw I am not sure my first question is so silly. The first card
exchange
>was designed to make the players not feel they were screwed.
Which card exchange was that? It must have been the one from WotC for
my Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns), The Return to Innocence
(Ancient Hearts) , Cunctator Motion (V:TES) , High Stakes (V:TES), and
Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns). There have been cards banned
since 1997. Get over it.
>What about the players who recently bought a lot of CE Boosters in
>order to grab few Succubus Club & table-dancing cards ?
Well if that is the only reason that you bought CE boosters and not for
the other reprints, new vampires or to support White Wolf for bringing
a great game back to life then I would say that you made a pretty poor
investment because these cards are avalible on the secondary market for
less than the cost of a booster.
Don't you
>think they feel a bit screwed ?
Nope, I think they feel like idiots.
>I respect your zen attitude but how big do you think your Pinata can
>grow over years ?
Hmm, my collection is over 30,000 cards and I have a total of 50 banned
cards. That is a pretty small pinata.
>How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you
>handle *with no counterpart at all* ?
Not many apparently since there are now 9 banned cards out of 2000+
cards.
>Are we only here to buy more an more cards and shut up when they
>suddenly become useless ?
Yes.
> I do not agree.
I don't think they asked you and probably for good reason. How's the
absinthe?
[ quoted text not captured ]
>Too bad my playgroup is Paris, where everybody is allways playing
>tournament-available decks...
Too bad my playgroup is in Lafayette, La and I have to drive 20 miles
to get to it.
Life's just not fair.
>Btw I am not sure my first question is so silly. The first card
exchange
>was designed to make the players not feel they were screwed.
Which card exchange was that? It must have been the one from WotC for
my Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns), The Return to Innocence
(Ancient Hearts) , Cunctator Motion (V:TES) , High Stakes (V:TES), and
Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns). There have been cards banned
since 1997. Get over it.
>What about the players who recently bought a lot of CE Boosters in>order to grab few Succubus Club & table-dancing cards ?
Well if that is the only reason that you bought CE boosters and not for
the other reprints, new vampires or to support White Wolf for bringing
a great game back to life then I would say that you made a pretty poor
investment because these cards are avalible on the secondary market for
less than the cost of a booster.
Don't you
>think they feel a bit screwed ?
Nope, I think they feel like idiots.
>I respect your zen attitude but how big do you think your Pinata can
>grow over years ?
Hmm, my collection is over 30,000 cards and I have a total of 50 banned
cards. That is a pretty small pinata.
>How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you>handle *with no counterpart at all* ?
Not many apparently since there are now 9 banned cards out of 2000+
cards.
>Are we only here to buy more an more cards and shut up when they
>suddenly become useless ?
Yes.
> I do not agree.
I don't think they asked you and probably for good reason. How's the
absinthe?
[ quoted text not captured ]
<X_Ze...@cox-internet.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> Which card exchange was that? It must have been the one from WotC for
> my Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns), The Return to Innocence
> (Ancient Hearts) , Cunctator Motion (V:TES) , High Stakes (V:TES), and
> Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns).
In fact I was thinking of the only card exchange that was, the one
for Hannibal & Jessica & Yong-sun.
And I do not see why the fact old banned cards were not exchanged
should be a good reason for those new banned cards not to be
exchanged. I think this can change.
>>What about the players who recently bought a lot of CE Boosters in
>>order to grab few Succubus Club & table-dancing cards ?>
> Well if that is the only reason that you bought CE boosters and not for
> the other reprints, new vampires or to support White Wolf for bringing
> a great game back to life then I would say that you made a pretty poor
> investment because these cards are avalible on the secondary market for
> less than the cost of a booster.
I am pretty aware of that and I did not bought CE for that.
The point is that valuable cards just turned to be worth nothing whatever
the mean you manage to have them.
> Hmm, my collection is over 30,000 cards and I have a total of 50 banned
> cards. That is a pretty small pinata.
Life is not so unfair after all...
>>Are we only here to buy more an more cards and shut up when they
>>suddenly become useless ?>
> Yes.
So I understand why you cannot see my point.
> I don't think they asked you and probably for good reason. How's the
> absinthe?
Tasty, tasty... :->
This is not my job to manage the game ; talentuous people does that
very well (I think banning Succubus Club is an very good idea ; I am not
sure for the two others -we will see).
My concern is the investment I put in some cards becoming useless. I have
to manage that.
Denis
aka Richter
<X_Ze...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:1102362523....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Which card exchange was that? It must have been the one from WotC for
> my Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns), The Return to Innocence
> (Ancient Hearts) , Cunctator Motion (V:TES) , High Stakes (V:TES), and
> Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns). There have been cards banned
> since 1997.
Since 1995, actually.
The first banned list appeared in October 1, 1995 (effective a month
later) :
Cunctator Motion
High Stakes
Rowan Ring
Monocle of Clarity
Stake
(It was also accompanied by a restricted list -- a list of
cards that were restricted by a 2CL: Ancilla Empowerment,
Conservative Agitation, Domain Challenge, Earth Meld, Fifth
Tradition, Form of Mist, Freak Drive, Kine Resources
Contested, Majesty, Parity Shift, and Sabbat Threat; and it
banned mixing card backs in the crypt and banned the use of
sleeves unless all players at the table agreed to allow them.)
Playing for Keeps was added to the banned list in January 1996.
Madness of the Bard was added in July 1997, bringing the
total to 6.
(The restricted list disappeared some time before then).
In March of 1999, Stake was removed from the list and Return
to Innocence was added.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
Denis GERARD wrote:
> Due to the rarity of the card (2 fixed unco, 1 rare), I think that players
> deserve a new card exchange program for these recently banned cards.
Dude. This is a collectible card game. Sometimes cards get banned. That is
just a fact of the format of the game. Compared to many games in the history
of the format, VTES is wildly successful at not banning that many cards. In
the history of this game, the follwong cards have been banned:
-A handfull of Ante cards. No longer printed. Still banned.
-Return to Innocence. No longer printed. Still banned.
-Madness of the Bard. No longer printed. Still banned.
-Monocle of Clarity. Currently printed. No longer banned.
-The recent three of the new ones.
I might be missing one or two. In 10 years of this game existing, there are,
what, less than 10 cards in cirulation that you can no longer use in
competetive play. There was no need to have an exchange program then. There
is no need to have an exchange program now.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"How does this end?"
"In fire."
Emperor Turhan and Kosh
Denis GERARD wrote:
> How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you
> handle *with no counterpart at all* ?
Why do you think any more are going to become useless any time soon? The
track record of the design team and tournament organization of this game are
pretty rock solid--less than 1 card a year banned, overall. I think this is
a margin of financial loss we can all live with for making the game work
better.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Denis GERARD wrote:
> In fact I was thinking of the only card exchange that was, the one
> for Hannibal & Jessica & Yong-sun.
That was because the printers made a mistake. An error. They were nicely
fixing an error. It was very nice of them. They could have just decided to
ignore it and put those cards in the next set. But they decided to be nice.
Which is fantastic.
Banning cards for competetive play does not require a trade. The cards are
still playable.
> And I do not see why the fact old banned cards were not exchanged
> should be a good reason for those new banned cards not to be
> exchanged. I think this can change.
There is no need for it.
[ quoted text not captured ]
><X_Zea...@cox-internet.com> a écrit dans le message de news:>> Which card exchange was that? It must have been the one from WotC
for
>> my Madness of the Bard (Dark Sovereigns), The Return to Innocence
>> (Ancient Hearts) , Cunctator Motion (V:TES) , High Stakes (V:TES),
and
>> Playing for Keeps (Dark Sovereigns).>In fact I was thinking of the only card exchange that was, the one
>for Hannibal & Jessica & Yong-sun.
>And I do not see why the fact old banned cards were not exchanged
>should be a good reason for those new banned cards not to be
>exchanged. I think this can change.
That's because it is the only one in existance. WotC didn't give a
shit about the players and White Wolf does. As a matter of fact, the
reason these cards are banned is because they care. Let's not be
whiney, ungrateful consumers. I know, I know, It's Christmas, and it's
time for us to all put on our Whiney, Ungrateful Consumer outfits.
Let's hold off just this once.
>>>What about the players who recently bought a lot of CE Boosters in>>>order to grab few Succubus Club & table-dancing cards ?>> Well if that is the only reason that you bought CE boosters and not
for
>> the other reprints, new vampires or to support White Wolf for
bringing
>> a great game back to life then I would say that you made a pretty
poor
>> investment because these cards are avalible on the secondary market
for
>> less than the cost of a booster.>I am pretty aware of that and I did not bought CE for that.
>The point is that valuable cards just turned to be worth nothing
whatever
>the mean you manage to have them.
So you have been contacted to act as a representative for this shadow
conspiracy group of players who bought Camrilla edition just for DU/KR
and SC. Tell me more about them. What motivated them to just buy it
for those three cards? What did they do with the other cards in the
packs? Can you have them send me those other cards in the packs that
they didn't want?
>> Hmm, my collection is over 30,000 cards and I have a total of 50
banned
>> cards. That is a pretty small pinata.>Life is not so unfair after
The market is fair. I paid for those cards. Do the math.
>all...>>>Are we only here to buy more an more cards and shut up when they
>>>suddenly become useless ?>> Yes.>So I understand why you cannot see my point.
Yes, perhaps it is a matter of perspective. If you would step off your
mountainous molehill then perhaps you would stop hallucinating being
hit in the head with pieces of sky.
>> I don't think they asked you and probably for good reason. How's the
>> absinthe?>Tasty, tasty... :->
>This is not my job to manage the game ; talentuous people does that
>very well (I think banning Succubus Club is an very good idea ; I am
not
>sure for the two others -we will see).
>My concern is the investment I put in some cards becoming useless. I
have
>to manage that.
Rest assured a continuous healthy growing game is the best thing for
the value of your cards.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Denis GERARD wrote:
> The point is that valuable cards just turned to be worth nothing
whatever
> the mean you manage to have them.> My concern is the investment I put in some cards becoming useless. I
have
> to manage that.
Tell you what - I bet you can find someone out there who will happily,
in exchange for the handful of Succubus Club, Dramatic Upheavels and
Kindred Restructures, give you the BOXES of cards that they own of
games like L5R or Rage where hundreds and hundreds of cards were
permanently banned from competitive play in favor of heavily-revised
editions of the game.
Failing that, I bet you can find someone who will trade you the boxes
of cards they have for card games that are no longer in production, and
that no longer have official competitve play or any support from the
parent company whatsoever, despite their having spent sizable amounts
of cash on acquiring the cards.
(I'd joke about someone trading you phased-out Magic cards for them,
except for some unfathomable reason those cards are still worth
significant amounts of cash - especially compared to DU/KRs, which were
selling in bulk for a nickel a card before the banning on ebay.)
> Denis
> aka Richter
-John Flournoy
"How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you
handle *with no counterpart at all* ?"
Dude, tons of cards are wallpapered when they're first released.
X_Ze...@cox-internet.com wrote:
> You still own the cards that you bought with your money. What you do
> with them is up to you. I am going to use mine to make a Pinata of a
> donkey.
If you show up at Origins 2005 with that pinata, I'll refund your cost of
entry. :)
> Norman S. Brown, Jr
> XZealot
> Archon of the Swamp
Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA)
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
In message <1102367513.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
X_Ze...@cox-internet.com writes:
>Let's not be whiney, ungrateful consumers.
Damnit. I spent my hard earned cash and all I got were all the rest of
these perfectly usable cards out of which I can make a dozen decks.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
The point is. I have a right to complain, damnit. I'm British. It's
what we do. People died in World Wars so that I could have the right to
complain. And what do those bloody colonials do? They stop me playing
with little bits of card!!!!1111oneoneoneoneone
--
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
"James Coupe" wrote
[snip]
> Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
.... Tunbridge Wells you say? One of the very epicenters of UK complaining,
second only to Manchester.
Beware.
On 6 Dec 2004 13:36:11 -0800, "Screaming Vermillian"
<vermil...@yahoo.com> scrawled:
>"How many of your 'precious' cards becoming wallpaper can you
>handle *with no counterpart at all* ?"
>Dude, tons of cards are wallpapered when they're first released.
are we back to tortured confession again? :)
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> a écrit dans le message de news:
G6ZCg9au...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Hey. I'm French. You don't know *nothing* about complaining, dude.
Let the artist work.
I've got to face the tremendous pinata argument.
I'll tell them I'm working for WW, this way they will immediatly agree
with me, shut up and let me complain.
All of this is very serious. Please let the real complainer perform, ok ?
Denis
aka Richter
Screaming Vermillian wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Indeed, one card was banned as soon as it was conceived --
the Dark Sovereigns ante card.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
>Hey. I'm French. You don't know *nothing* about complaining, dude.
>Let the artist work.
>I've got to face the tremendous pinata argument.
I can smell your fear from here Frenchie!
[ quoted text not captured ]
<kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr> wrote in message
news:1102512593.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]> Norman, Denis, I have a winning-winning deal to propose :
> A Wrestling match, during the next welcome party of the EC 2005, in the
> mud, with a copy DU and Playing for Keeps in each hands.
> The one who manage to make his cards swallowed by the other won a
> succubus club, with my signature (a very rare object).
> What do you think about this ?
> (James Coupe could be the referee, if he wants to ;-))
>
I'll bet $500 and a bucket of gumbo on Normie. That boy is built for
inflicting maximum damage, and wrestles alligators on his daily commute (Its
true, I have pictures).
> BTW, I have a copy of all WOD books. Now, the WOD is dead. So, my
> question is : is there an offical exchange program to get the new WOD
> books ???
>
LOL!!!
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
[ quoted text not captured ]
Norman, Denis, I have a winning-winning deal to propose :
A Wrestling match, during the next welcome party of the EC 2005, in the
mud, with a copy DU and Playing for Keeps in each hands.
The one who manage to make his cards swallowed by the other won a
succubus club, with my signature (a very rare object).
What do you think about this ?
(James Coupe could be the referee, if he wants to ;-))
BTW, I have a copy of all WOD books. Now, the WOD is dead. So, my
question is : is there an offical exchange program to get the new WOD
books ???
Kamel, who bet a Kindred Restruture on Denis (... and a madness of the
Bard on Norman, just to be sure).
PS : remember that the Wookie-Ewok argument is a copyright from the
authors of South Park. The Pinata-argument is a registered mark form
N.S Brown, Jr. The french are complain-artist is a copyright from Denis
"frenchman" Gerard. The "you have a strange sense of humor" is in the
public domain.
> Norman, Denis, I have a winning-winning deal to propose :
> A Wrestling match, during the next welcome party of the EC 2005, in
the
> mud, with a copy DU and Playing for Keeps in each hands.
> The one who manage to make his cards swallowed by the other won a
> succubus club, with my signature (a very rare object).
> What do you think about this ?
> (James Coupe could be the referee, if he wants to ;-))
Why don't we do it sooner like at the NAC in Indianapolis. It has to
be pudding not mud though. :)
"Oh my god! He's using the illegal Pinata hold"
[ quoted text not captured ]
> PS : remember that the Wookie-Ewok argument is a copyright from the
> authors of South Park. The Pinata-argument is a registered mark form
> N.S Brown, Jr. The french are complain-artist is a copyright from Denis
> "frenchman" Gerard. The "you have a strange sense of humor" is in the
> public domain.
And the "Kamel barely awoke brushing his teeth in his undewear with a weird
camera angle" picture is in my sole possession and for sale for a very high
price (recommended for Call of Cthulhu gamemasters...). ;D
--
Orpheus
"Did you know that urine is sterile ?
You can drink it."
Tyler Durden
<kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr> a écrit dans le message de news:
1102512593.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Norman, Denis, I have a winning-winning deal to propose :
> A Wrestling match, during the next welcome party of the EC 2005, in the
> mud, with a copy DU and Playing for Keeps in each hands.
> The one who manage to make his cards swallowed by the other won a
> succubus club, with my signature (a very rare object).
<sharpening the edges of his cards>
What ?
I you want want rules, ask LSJ.
This is gonna be dirrrrty, dude ! Ooooh Yeah !...
(if I manage to win, I will have another Succubus Club to exchange
to WW ! Great !)
(and in any other case I could still complain. Great !)
Denis
aka Richter
"David Zopf" <david...@snet.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
JIDtd.3011$nE7....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>>>> I'll bet $500 and a bucket of gumbo on Normie. That boy is built for
> inflicting maximum damage, and wrestles alligators on his daily commute
> (Its true, I have pictures).
I cannot compete with that...
Alligators don't dare to approach me anymore since I turn 9.
Is donkey-pinata wrestling good enough reference ?
Denis
aka Richter
(+1 strength...yeaaaaah)