Here goes a few more... (LSJ)

1. Does a mental patient (an escaped one) that makes his ag-strike burn uf the opponent strikes CE? Or if Rötshreck is played? 2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? 3. If my Muddled Vampire Hunter rushes another minion and dies, and then get's Compel Spirited, can he now rush again imediatly? (NRA?) 4. If Akhenaton is burned, he's shuffled into my library. But Compel the Spirit has only the requirement that an ally has been BURNED since my last turn. Can I compel Akhenaton from my library? 5. Does it count as "damage not succesfully inflicted" if someone strikes Ambrosius, The Ferryman with non-ag damage? I'm thinking there might be some obscure ruling that damage is succesfully inflicted if not dodged or prevented... 6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but this is not true, right? 7. Is Daemonic Possession a D-action? 8. When someone is ousted, all his cards are burned. Can I Daemonic Possess one of his burned minion even though his ousted? (I so want this to work!) 9. Do I have to announce which card I'm about to get from the ash-heap with Carlottas ability or with Whispers before blocking? 10. Can a non-malk play Mask of 1k faces during a madness-network action? Now you'll have something to do for a while! /Henke

Henke <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote in message news:9hb856$32v$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk... > 1. Does a mental patient (an escaped one) that makes his ag-strike burn uf > the opponent strikes CE? Or if Rötshreck is played? No. The Escaped Mental Patient only burns if his strike resolves. [LSJ 11/27/2000] He does not burn for announcing an attempt to strike with aggravated damage. > 2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? You gain control of the card. When you are ousted, it leaves the game. There is no effect on the vampire with the card, as he still has the card (it doesn't move by SI text). > 3. If my Muddled Vampire Hunter rushes another minion and dies, and then > get's Compel Spirited, can he now rush again imediatly? (NRA?) Yes. All minions that re-enter play from the ashheap may do things that previous copies of themselves did earlier the same turn. Treat the minion that enters play in this fashion as not previously having taking any actions, as the minion remembers nothing of the turn because it was in the ash heap. "Minions brought into play from the Ash Heap (or Hand) are as pure as they day they were born. They retain nothing from any previous "life" they may have had in the controlled region. (Card text excluded, of course). This includes forgetting any actions they may have taken in that previous life." [LSJ 6-25-1997] > 4. If Akhenaton is burned, he's shuffled into my library. But Compel the > Spirit has only the requirement that an ally has been BURNED since my last > turn. Can I compel Akhenaton from my library? No. "Compel the Spirit cannot be used. It requires (implicitly) that the selected ally/retainer be in your ash heap." [LSJ 7-24-1998] > 5. Does it count as "damage not succesfully inflicted" if someone strikes > Ambrosius, The Ferryman with non-ag damage? Damage that is not aggravated is not successfully inflicted on Ambrosius. Damage that is prevented, dodged, or immunized away is not successfully inflicted. ie, you cannot Disarm or Twisting the Knife to Ambrosius without doing agg damage to him. > I'm thinking there might be some obscure ruling that damage is succesfully inflicted if not dodged or > prevented... Nope. > 6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This > sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but > this is not true, right? The Khabar: Honor fits the definition of a hand strike, so you may use them together. "Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's strength, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing innate strike." [LSJ 19970224] > 7. Is Daemonic Possession a D-action? No. It does not target a card controlled by another player. The Ash Heap is not in play, and is not controlled. Either predator or prey could block a Daemonic Possession action. > 8. When someone is ousted, all his cards are burned. Can I Daemonic Possess > one of his burned minion even though his ousted? (I so want this to work!) Instinct says No. The players cards are effectively "removed from the game", not "burned" per se. Couldn't find anything online to back it up though. > 9. Do I have to announce which card I'm about to get from the ash-heap with > Carlottas ability or with Whispers before blocking? Yes. See 6.2.1 of the rulebook: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_2_1 All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. EXCEPTION: Any decisions to be made for a referendum are not declared until the action succeeds (see The Political Action, sec. 6.3.1). > 10. Can a non-malk play Mask of 1k faces during a madness-network action? No. "A non-Malkavian cannot use Mask of a Thousand Faces to assume the action of a Malkavian on someone else's turn, since he is not capable of taking the action in the first place at that time." [LSJ 19981007] Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

In message <9hb856$32v$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>, Henke <d98...@stud.hh.se> writes >1. Does a mental patient (an escaped one) that makes his ag-strike burn uf >the opponent strikes CE? No, because he didn't make his strike. > Or if Rötshreck is played? No, because he didn't make his strike. > >2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? Since you cannot move the vampire it is on (no card text to allow this), you become the controller - hence the vampire has +1 bleed when bleeding your prey, and you can block the (D) action to burn it etc. >3. If my Muddled Vampire Hunter rushes another minion and dies, and then >get's Compel Spirited, can he now rush again imediatly? (NRA?) Yes. The new MVH isn't subject to NRA, because it's a different MVH. >4. If Akhenaton is burned, he's shuffled into my library. But Compel the >Spirit has only the requirement that an ally has been BURNED since my last >turn. Can I compel Akhenaton from my library? No, because the card specifies you move from the ash heap. >5. Does it count as "damage not succesfully inflicted" if someone strikes >Ambrosius, The Ferryman with non-ag damage? I'm thinking there might be some >obscure ruling that damage is succesfully inflicted if not dodged or >prevented... Damage isn't successfully inflicted (for the purposes of Pulled Fangs etc.) if it's prevented. Ambrosius is immune to such damage, hence I can't see how it would be successfully inflicted. >6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This >sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but >this is not true, right? Nom that would be making two separate strikes. You can make a normal hand strike (including things like Torn Signpost, inherent hand damage modifiers etc.) or a melee weapon strike. Playing another strike card is not an option. >7. Is Daemonic Possession a D-action? The action is not "directed at another Methuselah or at something controlled by another Methuselah". [6.2.2.1] Things in the ash-heap aren't controlled, so it can't be. >8. When someone is ousted, all his cards are burned. Can I Daemonic Possess >one of his burned minion even though his ousted? (I so want this to work!) No, only the card he or she controls. Minion cards are, by default, controlled by the controller of the minion they're on. Master cards are, by default, controlled by the Methuselah who played them. >9. Do I have to announce which card I'm about to get from the ash-heap with >Carlottas ability or with Whispers before blocking? Yes. You announce everything about all actions as you take them. (Except for the exact terms of the vote.) >10. Can a non-malk play Mask of 1k faces during a madness-network action? No, since they weren't capable of taking the action in the first place. A non-Malkavian cannot use Mask of a Thousand Faces to assume the action of a Malkavian on someone else's turn, since he is not capable of taking the action in the first place at that time. [LSJ 19981007] -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

In message <nPSJeTCS...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> writes >>8. When someone is ousted, all his cards are burned. Can I Daemonic Possess >>one of his burned minion even though his ousted? (I so want this to work!) > >No, only the card he or she controls. > >Minion cards are, by default, controlled by the controller of the >minion they're on. Master cards are, by default, controlled by the >Methuselah who played them. Erk, my apologies for not answering this properly. New eyes/brain will be sought. The bit above is perfectly true and is the correct statement, instead of your first sentence. As to the second bit: The Methuselah is no longer in the game, none of their cards are around. Their ash-heap is no longer in existence, since they've been ousted. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:40:50 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >> >>2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? > >Since you cannot move the vampire it is on (no card text to allow this), >you become the controller - hence the vampire has +1 bleed when bleeding >your prey, and you can block the (D) action to burn it etc. This is wrong, as you stated later in your reply >Minion cards are, by default, controlled by the controller of the >minion they're on. Sheperds doesnt affect tear. IMHO

The Lasombra wrote: > > Henke <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote in message > news:9hb856$32v$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk... > > 1. Does a mental patient (an escaped one) that makes his ag-strike burn uf > > the opponent strikes CE? Or if Rötshreck is played? > > No. > The Escaped Mental Patient only burns if his strike resolves. [LSJ > 11/27/2000] > He does not burn for announcing an attempt to strike with aggravated damage. Correct. > > 2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? > > You gain control of the card. When you are ousted, it leaves the game. > There is no effect on the vampire with the card, as he still has the card > (it > doesn't move by SI text). Correct. > > 3. If my Muddled Vampire Hunter rushes another minion and dies, and then > > get's Compel Spirited, can he now rush again imediatly? (NRA?) > > Yes. > All minions that re-enter play from the ashheap may do things that previous > copies of themselves did earlier the same turn. Treat the minion that > enters play in this fashion as not previously having taking any actions, as > the minion remembers nothing of the turn because it was in the ash heap. > > "Minions brought into play from the Ash Heap (or Hand) are as pure as they > day they were born. They retain nothing from any previous "life" they may > have had in the controlled region. (Card text excluded, of course). This > includes forgetting any actions they may have taken in that previous life." > [LSJ 6-25-1997] Correct. > > 4. If Akhenaton is burned, he's shuffled into my library. But Compel the > > Spirit has only the requirement that an ally has been BURNED since my last > > turn. Can I compel Akhenaton from my library? > > No. > "Compel the Spirit cannot be used. It requires (implicitly) that the > selected ally/retainer be in your ash heap." [LSJ 7-24-1998] Correct. > > 5. Does it count as "damage not succesfully inflicted" if someone strikes > > Ambrosius, The Ferryman with non-ag damage? > > Damage that is not aggravated is not successfully inflicted on Ambrosius. > Damage that is prevented, dodged, or immunized away is not successfully > inflicted. > ie, you cannot Disarm or Twisting the Knife to Ambrosius without doing agg > damage to him. Correct. > > I'm thinking there might be some obscure ruling that damage is succesfully > inflicted if not dodged or > > prevented... > > Nope. Correct. > > 6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This > > sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but > > this is not true, right? > > The Khabar: Honor fits the definition of a hand strike, so you may use them > together. > > "Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on > the striking minion's strength, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing > innate strike." [LSJ 19970224] No. You can make a default hand strike (modified by Scorpion's Touch), but you cannot play two strike cards for the same strike (unless card text says otherwise). For example, you cannot "daisy-chain" a series of Lucky Blows together, by the same token. > > 7. Is Daemonic Possession a D-action? > > No. > It does not target a card controlled by another player. > The Ash Heap is not in play, and is not controlled. > Either predator or prey could block a Daemonic Possession action. Correct. > > 8. When someone is ousted, all his cards are burned. Can I Daemonic > Possess > > one of his burned minion even though his ousted? (I so want this to work!) > > Instinct says No. Correct, since his ash heap no longer exists. [NEW RULING] > The players cards are effectively "removed from the game", not "burned" per > se. > Couldn't find anything online to back it up though. Actually, the cards are "burned" per se. [1.3] > > 9. Do I have to announce which card I'm about to get from the ash-heap > with > > Carlottas ability or with Whispers before blocking? > > Yes. > See 6.2.1 of the rulebook: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_2_1 > > All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, > including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. > EXCEPTION: Any decisions to be made for a referendum are not declared until > the action succeeds (see The Political Action, sec. 6.3.1). Correct. > > 10. Can a non-malk play Mask of 1k faces during a madness-network action? > > No. > > "A non-Malkavian cannot use Mask of a Thousand Faces to assume the action of > a Malkavian on someone else's turn, since he is not capable of taking the > action in the first place at that time." [LSJ 19981007] Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Dorian wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:40:50 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> > wrote: > > > > >> > >>2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? > > > >Since you cannot move the vampire it is on (no card text to allow this), > >you become the controller - hence the vampire has +1 bleed when bleeding > >your prey, and you can block the (D) action to burn it etc. > > This is wrong, as you stated later in your reply It is correct, actually. > >Minion cards are, by default, controlled by the controller of the > >minion they're on. > > Sheperds doesnt affect tear. Yes, it does - it changes the "default" mentioned in that sentence. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3B394188...@white-wolf.com... > Dorian wrote: > > > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:40:50 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > >>2. What happens if i Tier of souls is Shephards-Innocensesed? > > > > > >Since you cannot move the vampire it is on (no card text to allow this), > > >you become the controller - hence the vampire has +1 bleed when bleeding > > >your prey, and you can block the (D) action to burn it etc. > > > > This is wrong, as you stated later in your reply > > It is correct, actually. > > > >Minion cards are, by default, controlled by the controller of the > > >minion they're on. > > > > Sheperds doesnt affect tear. > > Yes, it does - it changes the "default" mentioned in that sentence. > So the minion that the tier is on only gets the +1 bleed if he bleeds your prey, not his? And if someone tried to burn the card the minion's controller could not block it?

[ quoted text not captured ] See the "It is correct, actually" part above for the explicit answer to these questions. [ quoted text not captured ]

>>6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This >>sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but >>this is not true, right? > >Nom that would be making two separate strikes. > >You can make a normal hand strike (including things like Torn Signpost, >inherent hand damage modifiers etc.) or a melee weapon strike. > >Playing another strike card is not an option. > > I call a Conflict of Intererst on question 6. Coupe and Lasmobra answers differ. This can only be solved by the ancient ways of the Jyhad-diplomate: A fistfight!!! My money is on: James wins by TKO in second round.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B394091...@white-wolf.com>... > The Lasombra wrote: > > > 6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This > > > sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, but > > > this is not true, right? > > > > The Khabar: Honor fits the definition of a hand strike, so you may use them > > together. > > > > "Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on > > the striking minion's strength, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing > > innate strike." [LSJ 19970224] > > No. You can make a default hand strike (modified by Scorpion's Touch), but you > cannot play two strike cards for the same strike (unless card text says > otherwise). > > For example, you cannot "daisy-chain" a series of Lucky Blows together, by the > same token. I do not understand this ruling? I thought that if cards conflict with the rules, the cards take presedence? How can it be okay to use gas powered chainsaw, but not khbar honor? (gas powered chainsaw: "3 damage as a strike") (Khbar: Strike: <strength+3> damage) Under that thinking you couldn't Lucky blow: Undead strength. You said you can't make 2 strikes unless card text says otherwise...well isn't that what lucky blow/Scorpions touch specifically say? It makes sense you can't lucky blow, then lucky blow. Because card text on lucky blow(like Scorpions touch) says to make a hand/melee strike(which neither lucky blow or Scorpions touch are, in unto themselves) This is the same thinking as Charming Lobby. Sure you couldn't play charming lobby, and as the referendum play charming lobby...same situation. Aaron.

roans...@yahoo.com (Aaron) wrote: >LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > news:<3B394091...@white-wolf.com>... >> The Lasombra wrote: >> > > 6. Scorpions touch: Strike: make a hand or melle weapon strike... This >> > > sounds almost as if I could actually strike with, say, a Khabar:Honor, > but >> > > this is not true, right? >> > >> > The Khabar: Honor fits the definition of a hand strike, so you may use them >> > together. >> > >> > "Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on >> > the striking minion's strength, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing >> > innate strike." [LSJ 19970224] >> >> No. You can make a default hand strike (modified by Scorpion's Touch), but > you >> cannot play two strike cards for the same strike (unless card text says >> otherwise). >> >> For example, you cannot "daisy-chain" a series of Lucky Blows together, by > the >> same token. > >I do not understand this ruling? I thought that if cards conflict >with the rules, the cards take presedence? Yes. But K:Honor doesn't say you can play a second strike card, so it fails to conflict with the rule that you cannot. >How can it be okay to use gas powered chainsaw, but not khbar honor? GPC is not a strike card. >(gas powered chainsaw: "3 damage as a strike") (Khbar: Strike: ><strength+3> damage) K:Honor allows you to use either your hand strike or your melee weapon strike, by card text. >Under that thinking you couldn't Lucky blow: Undead strength. You >said you can't make 2 strikes unless card text says otherwise...well >isn't that what lucky blow/Scorpions touch specifically say? No. It says you can make a hand strike. Not play a strike from your hand. >It makes sense you can't lucky blow, then lucky blow. Because card If it does, then we're done - there's no difference there. >text on lucky blow(like Scorpions touch) says to make a hand/melee >strike(which neither lucky blow or Scorpions touch are, in unto >themselves) Both Lucky Blow (with hands) and Scorpion Sting are hand strikes. >This is the same thinking as Charming Lobby. Sure you couldn't play >charming lobby, and as the referendum play charming lobby...same >situation. Good point. Charming Lobby should definately allow you to play a referendum from your hand. I'll correct that. [ quoted text not captured ]

> >>This is the same thinking as Charming Lobby. Sure you couldn't play >>charming lobby, and as the referendum play charming lobby...same >>situation. > >Good point. Charming Lobby should definately allow you to play a >referendum from your hand. I'll correct that. > I did not quite get this ruling. What was decided here? (never understood that charming lobby anyway...) /Henke

vte...@white-wolf.com (LSJ) wrote in message > >This is the same thinking as Charming Lobby. Sure you couldn't play > >charming lobby, and as the referendum play charming lobby...same > >situation. > > Good point. Charming Lobby should definately allow you to play a > referendum from your hand. I'll correct that. Stare Decisis. Now I'm with you. ;) Aaron

"Henke" <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote in message news:<9hdvj2$8dt$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>... [ quoted text not captured ] I beleive charming lobby works along the lines of "take a charming lobby action and announce a political action that you're going to call. if unblocked, play the political action from your hand (unless the political action is one provided by a card in play) and have the referendum".(1) Charming Lobby, the card itself, has been ruled to be a Political action, although it itself does not have a referendum in it. I think this new ruling-to-be means that when you take a charming lobby action, you announce a referendum, not just any old political action (such as, say, a _second_ charming lobby), so that stupid referendumless political actions can't happen. (1) As a side question, is the political action (or referendum, as it's to become) played from your hand considered to be played "during a political action"? That is, am i forbidden to replace it until after the referendum? salem.

salem christ wrote: > > "Henke" <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote in message news:<9hdvj2$8dt$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>... > > > > > >>This is the same thinking as Charming Lobby. Sure you couldn't play > > >>charming lobby, and as the referendum play charming lobby...same > > >>situation. > > > > > >Good point. Charming Lobby should definately allow you to play a > > >referendum from your hand. I'll correct that. > > > > > > > I did not quite get this ruling. What was decided here? (never understood > > that charming lobby anyway...) > > I beleive charming lobby works along the lines of "take a charming > lobby action and announce a political action that you're going to > call. if unblocked, play the political action from your hand (unless > the political action is one provided by a card in play) and have the > referendum".(1) > > Charming Lobby, the card itself, has been ruled to be a Political > action, although it itself does not have a referendum in it. > > I think this new ruling-to-be means that when you take a charming > lobby action, you announce a referendum, not just any old political > action (such as, say, a _second_ charming lobby), so that stupid > referendumless political actions can't happen. The ruling/errata means that you *can* play a referendum-political-action from your hand. In contrast to the strike stuff further up the thread. > (1) As a side question, is the political action (or referendum, as > it's to become) played from your hand considered to be played "during > a political action"? That is, am i forbidden to replace it until after > the referendum? No. Political Action != referendum. You play the political action card to call the referendum (i.e., before the referendum), so it is replaced as normal. [ quoted text not captured ]