Newbie Questions

Hi, A group of us have just formed a Jyhad league -- and none of us have played before. We've carefully read the teeny tiny rulebook, and are still (of course) confused about some thing. Before boring you with questions you've seen a million times, could someone just point me to: the FAQ. The errata for the rulebook/cards. Is there something like a "top 10" list of newbie mistakes? Anything else that a group of players new to the game should be aware of? Thanks, LostBoy jim sum...@cs.utah.edu

sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu (Jim Summers) writes: >We played our first large game last night, and some questions came up by >the group. Any help would be appreciated. Congrats. Hope it went well >1) Trap: Does Trap (and other cards with similar wording) mean that you >have 3 automatic presses to continue combat UNLESS any methusela plays a >card, or at least three presses (assuming no cards or played), but maybe >more if one meth plays a maneuver, or zip gun. Does it makes sense that >you lose the presses if you play an extra strike or a concealed weapon on >your minion? Trap: There will exist one press to continue combat from this cards (and not from any Meth specifically) until such time as three rounds of combat have been completed where no Meth plays a card. Nothing but S:CE or press to end combat will help you get out of combat. Otherwise a vamp will almost certainely go to torpor before this condition is met. NOTE: add strikes usually require the use of a card and as such require that Trap add three rounds after this round. NOTE2:Trap does not count as a card for it's own purposes. The card must be played while trap is in play and playing the trap doesn't count for the cards being played rule. NOTE3: This press to continue may be canceled by a press to end combat. This press to end may be played by any Meth. Normally the same meth that played the trap couldn't cancel his own action of pressing, but trap has been ruled to be an anonymous press, and either combating Meth can cancel. >2) (D) actions: There are some locations that can be destroyed/affected >by "a (D) action of any minion". What constitutes a (D) action by a >minion vs. a location (i.e. Army of Rats, Powerbase: Chicago). Can Bum's >Rush be used to destroy Army of Rats, or is the (D) useful only against a >minion? If I can't use any (D) card, then am I looking only for things >like Arson? If I own the location, how can I block the (D) against the >location (it isn't a stealth action, can I automatically intercept)? The (D) action that the card describes empowers all minions with the ability to just take that action, just like they would bleed normally. They tap and say "I take an action to (destroy/call vote to destroy) >Location<" Treat this as if they had just played an action card which says what the location says about destroying it. (with a (D) on it) >3) Action Modifiers: When do action modifiers have to be played? At the >same time the action is declared, or any time after the action is >declared. Action Modifiers may be played when any action is declared (see seduction), after someone tries to block (any stealth card) and after everyone has declined to block (conditioning, et al) >4) Attacking is an action. Is blocking an action, or a reaction that >taps the minion? Can I play an Action Mod card that untaps me after >"current action" or did I react and not act. Blocking is a reaction that any untapped vampire may perform, like bleeding is an action any untapped vampire can perform. You may use reaction cards assuking it is not your turn (don't ask how someone can attack you on their turn). Only reaction cards may bee played. Action mod.s only work when your are acting. >5) I have a card that allows me to keep attacking a minion instead of >allowing him to go into torpor. Does he still to damage to me during >combat, or is he incapaciated, and i can continue to claw him? What Card is this? If it is Undead Persistance, then you play it when you are going to torpor and you don't go to torpor, but still take damage normall. Otherwise it acts like a trap, only better since this is the "I'm taking you with me card." >6) Agg. Damage: I do aggrevated damage. During strike, I hit. Opponent >takes aggrevated damage. Can I now take additional strikes? Additional >Presses? Agg send to torpor. torpor ends combat. So no add strikes can be played If he's still hanging around (prevention of agg) then pund him some more. but as soon as he goes to torpor, Combat ends. >7) Votes: A vote is called, when I play a vote card from my hand for +1 >vote, do I have to tap a vampire to play it? No. >Thanks in advance, You may wish to find the Rules lsit, errata list, and house rules list that are posted here frequently. Most of the elder Rules Mongerers won't answer these question for the thousandth time. >LostBoy >jim Laughing boy Stu -- Stu Pieloch TLTT Players-Lord High And Mighty Potentate of the Known Universe DramaTech Theatre Improv Troupe http://photobooks.gatech.edu/~zync/lttp.html "There is a hole...in your mind." -- The Assassin (to Sinclair), "The Gathering"

Jim Summers (sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu) wrote: : 1) Trap: Does Trap (and other cards with similar wording) mean that you : have 3 automatic presses to continue combat UNLESS any methusela plays a : card, or at least three presses (assuming no cards or played), but maybe : more if one meth plays a maneuver, or zip gun. Does it makes sense that : you lose the presses if you play an extra strike or a concealed weapon on : your minion? Trap provides one automatic press-to-continue every round until three full rounds of combat have gone by consecutively without anyone playing any cards. If nobody plays any cards except for the Trap, this means there will be 4 rounds of combat in total. The playing of a card resets the 'counter' - the round the card was played in doesn't count, and there must now be three rounds from _that_ point with no cards played. Either player may play a press to counter the Trap and escape; the trap is considered to be provided by the card and not the player who played the card. : 2) (D) actions: There are some locations that can be destroyed/affected : by "a (D) action of any minion". What constitutes a (D) action by a : minion vs. a location (i.e. Army of Rats, Powerbase: Chicago). Can Bum's : Rush be used to destroy Army of Rats, or is the (D) useful only against a : minion? If I can't use any (D) card, then am I looking only for things : like Arson? If I own the location, how can I block the (D) against the : location (it isn't a stealth action, can I automatically intercept)? if the card in question says 'Minions may take a (D) action to...' then the card itself is providing the action for them - no need to find any other (D) action card. If the Army of Rats/Powerbase/Haven Uncovered/Whatever says that there is stealth on the (D) action, then there is - otherwise it has 0 stealth unless modified. : 3) Action Modifiers: When do action modifiers have to be played? At the : same time the action is declared, or any time after the action is : declared. At any time, including after the blocking declaration by the other player (usually relevant in the case of dominate bleed-boosters). : 4) Attacking is an action. Is blocking an action, or a reaction that : taps the minion? Can I play an Action Mod card that untaps me after : "current action" or did I react and not act. No. Blocking is a _reaction_ which you can only take when it is not your turn. You may play reaction cards if you have them. : 5) I have a card that allows me to keep attacking a minion instead of : allowing him to go into torpor. Does he still to damage to me during : combat, or is he incapaciated, and i can continue to claw him? Don't know this one... can't think of the card offhand. : 6) Agg. Damage: I do aggrevated damage. During strike, I hit. Opponent : takes aggrevated damage. Can I now take additional strikes? Additional : Presses? No. Opponent goes to torpor as soon as any unprevented aggravated damage is applied, precluding additional strikes or additional rounds of combat. : 7) Votes: A vote is called, when I play a vote card from my hand for +1 : vote, do I have to tap a vampire to play it? You do not, nor do you have to tap a titled vampire to use their votes (unless under the influence of a specific action modifier). Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

Jim Summers <sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu> wrote: >1) Trap: Does Trap (and other cards with similar wording) mean that you >have 3 automatic presses to continue combat UNLESS any methusela plays a >card, or at least three presses (assuming no cards or played), but maybe >more if one meth plays a maneuver, or zip gun. Does it makes sense that >you lose the presses if you play an extra strike or a concealed weapon on >your minion? The presses continue for three rounds after the last card is played. Playing another card just means the Trap will last longer, if anything. >2) (D) actions: There are some locations that can be destroyed/affected >by "a (D) action of any minion". What constitutes a (D) action by a >minion vs. a location (i.e. Army of Rats, Powerbase: Chicago). Can Bum's >Rush be used to destroy Army of Rats, or is the (D) useful only against a >minion? If I can't use any (D) card, then am I looking only for things >like Arson? If I own the location, how can I block the (D) against the >location (it isn't a stealth action, can I automatically intercept)? The card itself is providing the action. For example, you can just say you're taking an action turn burn Army of Rats, and don't need any kind of action card to do so. Whoever controls the card that lets itself be burned is the player who would block an attempt to burn it. >3) Action Modifiers: When do action modifiers have to be played? At the >same time the action is declared, or any time after the action is declared. They can be played before, during, and after blocking attempts. >4) Attacking is an action. Is blocking an action, or a reaction that >taps the minion? Can I play an Action Mod card that untaps me after >"current action" or did I react and not act. Blocking is a reactive process (not the same thing as a reaction). If successful, the blocking minion taps, and combat begins. Action modifiers can only be played by the player/minion taking the action, so if you are the blocking player/minion, you cannot play action modifiers. >5) I have a card that allows me to keep attacking a minion instead of >allowing him to go into torpor. Does he still to damage to me during >combat, or is he incapaciated, and i can continue to claw him? Are you thinking of Undead Persistence? If so, you have it backwards; a vampire plays UP when that vampire would go into torpor, thus staying into combat longer. Yes, a vampire in this situation can strike normally. >6) Agg. Damage: I do aggrevated damage. During strike, I hit. Opponent >takes aggrevated damage. Can I now take additional strikes? Additional >Presses? No, and no. Combat ends during strike resolution. >7) Votes: A vote is called, when I play a vote card from my hand for +1 >vote, do I have to tap a vampire to play it? No. In fact, burning cards for votes has nothing to do with your vampires. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Jim Summers (sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu) wrote: : Ok, I'm still confused on this one. Let me talk through it step by step, : and you can correct any errors: : 1) My Predator plays "Army of Rats" on me during his master phase. No. Predator plays AoR. If you are hs prey, you take the effects. If you are oustd, then the new prey takes th effects. : 2) During my Minion phase, any of my Minions may tap as an action to : destroy Army of Rats. This is a +0 stealth action. This is a +0 stealth _directed_ action. : 3) My predator may block any of my minions as a +0 intercept. If my : predator refuses, my prey could then block as a +0 stealth action. No, because it is a directed action. : * I think my confusion here comes from the "Directed Action" mention on : Army of Rats. Can a minion take a Directed Action against a card : (i.e. Army of Rats) without a special card that allows it (i.e. "Bum's : Rush" allows a DA against another minion)? Yes. The AoR (or whatever) effectively gives you another option when it comes time to decide what actions to take; you may, as well as any other action you might take, also take an action 'Burn Army of Rats' which is +0 stealth, directed action. The AoR itself allows this. : Can he be intercepted in this action? Yes, butonly by the person at whom the (D) action is aimed. : How to "Army of Rats", which specify that any minion may take a : DA to destroy it, differ from "XTC Laced Blood" which say that a minion : can take an action and tap to destroy it? XTC Laced Blood Master: OoT Play when a vampire successfully hunts. Put this card on the vampire. As long as this card is on the vampire it must hunt each round, even if at capacity. Any vampire can burn this card as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. The afflicted vampire must still hunt that turn. In this case, the action allowd by the XTC is _not_ directed, and thus could be blocked by both the predator and/or prey of the Methuselah who controls the vampire taking the action. (_Not_ the prey/predator of the methuselah who controls the vampire on whom the XTC resides - note the difference.) : I'm getting it slowly, but I'm getting it. Thanks a lot for your help. : And our league play starts Monday! Good luck! [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <SUMMERS.95...@lal.cs.utah.edu> sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu (Jim Summers) writes: > >Ok, I'm still confused on this one. Let me talk through it step by step, >and you can correct any errors: Yes, you /are/ confused (sorry, no offense). There are lots of errors. >1) My Predator plays "Army of Rats" on me during his master phase. No, Army of Rats is an action card and cannot be played during the master phase. >2) During my Minion phase, any of my Minions may tap as an action to >destroy Army of Rats. This is a +0 stealth action. +0 stealth /directed/ action. >3) My predator may block any of my minions as a +0 intercept. If my >predator refuses, my prey could then block as a +0 stealth action. No, since it is a directed action, only the target (your predator) can block. Your prey normally cannot block. +0 stealth undirected actions supposedly are rare in this game. Unless it is clear that a card is intended to produce a +0 stealth undirected action as a handicap for the card, suspect either a mis-interpretation or a mis-print. >* I assume I could change the words "Army of Rats" to "XTC Laced Blood" and > everything else would be exactly the same? No. XTC Laced Blood is an OOT master and cannot be played in the Master phase. Attempting to burn it is a +1 stealth undirected action (I may be wrong). >* I think my confusion here comes from the "Directed Action" mention on >Army of Rats. Can a minion take a Directed Action against a card >(i.e. Army of Rats) without a special card that allows it (i.e. "Bum's >Rush" allows a DA against another minion)? Can he be intercepted in this >action? This is the net-approved (as opposed to "official") way of looking at this: the (D) symbol on (burning) AoR is a reminder that indicates who can block the action. Nothing but that. So any minion can take an action to burn AoR (without playing a card), but the action can only be blocked by the target - in this case the controller of the rats. Bum's Rush doesn't allow _a_ DA against another minion: it allows the _specific_ DA of entering combat with another minion. The (D) on Bum's Rush indicates only the player who is Rushed can attempt to block the action. If you rush him (and I'm not him), I can't block (unless I play Eagle Sight, etc.) > How to "Army of Rats", which specify that any minion may take a >DA to destroy it, differ from "XTC Laced Blood" which say that a minion >can take an action and tap to destroy it? Buring AoR is a directed action, so normally only the controller of the rats can block. Buring XTC is an undirected action, so normally only your prey or predator can block (regardless of who played the XTC in the first place). > >I'm getting it slowly, but I'm getting it. Thanks a lot for your help. >And our league play starts Monday! Hope that I'm helping. The net-approved way of looking at directed and undirected actions is that the "direction" indicates who can attempt to block the action. -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

Here's where I think the distinction lies: A (D) action may only be blocked by the person the action is directed against. So your scenario below is incorrect, in that your prey cannot block your attempt to destroy an Army of Rats. Your stealth/int is fine. Here's how it goes: 1) Your predator plays AofR. 2) On your turn, one of your untapped minions may attempt to burn the AofR, _no additional cards needed_. If your predator doesn't block, the AofR is destroyed. No one else's minions can block this (without eagle's sight, that is). If blocked, combat, etc. and another of your minions may attempt, and so on. This differs from XTC Laced Blood because both predator and prey may attempt to block that or any other non-(D) action. There are certain actions, (D) and non-(D), that vamps can take without a card to do them. Bleeding and hunting come to mind. There are certain actions that require a card to do--like calling a vote, or burning a location. These may or may not be directed actions, _depending on the card text_. There are still other actions a vamp may take by virtue of a card in play, whether it be burning a powerbase or calling a vote to burn the Elysium. In both of these cases, you do _not_ need a card (as you would if you were burning a hunting ground or calling a vote to Regain the Upper Hand) because the ability you need to destroy the card is inherent in the card itself. I hope this clears things up for you. Andrea, Vecchia del Giovanni WotC, is there Dark Soverigns yet? ...Just a little later, Methuselah... Jim Summers (sum...@lal.cs.utah.edu) wrote: : In article <48hrir$7...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: <snip> : Ok, I'm still confused on this one. Let me talk through it step by step, : and you can correct any errors: : 1) My Predator plays "Army of Rats" on me during his master phase. : 2) During my Minion phase, any of my Minions may tap as an action to : destroy Army of Rats. This is a +0 stealth action. : 3) My predator may block any of my minions as a +0 intercept. If my : predator refuses, my prey could then block as a +0 stealth action. : * I assume I could change the words "Army of Rats" to "XTC Laced Blood" and : everything else would be exactly the same? : * I think my confusion here comes from the "Directed Action" mention on : Army of Rats. Can a minion take a Directed Action against a card : (i.e. Army of Rats) without a special card that allows it (i.e. "Bum's : Rush" allows a DA against another minion)? Can he be intercepted in this : action? How to "Army of Rats", which specify that any minion may take a : DA to destroy it, differ from "XTC Laced Blood" which say that a minion : can take an action and tap to destroy it? : I'm getting it slowly, but I'm getting it. Thanks a lot for your help. : And our league play starts Monday! : LostBoy : jim

Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote: : Stuart J. Pieloch <dsa...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote: : >NOTE2:Trap does not count as a card for it's own purposes. The card must : >be played while trap is in play and playing the trap doesn't count for the : >cards being played rule. : No, the trap counts for itself. It checks to see whether there have : been three rounds with a card played at all, not just since Trap : was played. The problem with this is that the Trap has to give its press 'mystically'... i.e. after the normal press stage. I am not arguing this, as it seems to be an accepted fact around this newsgroup, simply reminding/pointing it out. Round one: play trap. Card played, counter = 0 Round two: no cards. press during press stage. counter = 1 Round three: no cards. press during press stage. counter = 2 Round four: no cards. press during press stage. counter = 3 {Trap Expires at this point.} Round five no cards. Trap has expired, so no press. Combat ends. This assumes that the counter is updated at the end of the round, which is (logically) the only point at which one can say that no cards were played during that round, no? WotC has said it works this way: Round one: play trap. Card played, counter = 0 Round two: no cards _prior to press stage_, so counter = 1 press during press stage. Round three: no cards _prior to press stage_, so counter = 2 press during press stage. Round four: no cards _prior to press stage_, so counter = 3 Counter is at 3, so no presses. The trap seems to expire before the actual end of the round, 'mystically'. Look at this situation: In Example 1, there is no longer an auto-press from trap. Were I to play a press to continue at this point, then combat would logically continue for 1 more round, unless pressed again, as the Trap has expired. In Example 2, however, the trap expires, and does not provide a press in round 4: What if I were then to provide a press from my hand in round 4? The combat would continue, and a card was played before the end of the round that would have turned the counter to 3, ergo, the trap cannot have expired, ergo it would continue to provide presses and combat would continue for three _more_ rounds. This can only be worked around if the Trap's press comes OUT OF SEQUENCE, and is provided _after_ the normal press stage, mystically breaking the timing rule. Question then: Is this correct? Tom - can I play a press to continue in round 4? If so, why? (Usuallly, one can only press to continue if there are no press-to-continues in play, which sould seem to indicate that the Trap has expired before 3 full rounds) If not, why not? (And is there any way to get the combat to continue past 4 rounds if the only card either of us plays is a single press, and we _want_ to continue? When would that press be played?) This, inherently, is the problem people have with understanding the Trap card. Unless it breaks the rules of order, combat must go 5 rounds - but if it does, then why is it the only card to do so? Tom: Could you please post the new text on the Trap (if you have it) and explain how this is cleared up in VTES? Thank you; [ quoted text not captured ]