Assamites Unleashed!

The Assamites seem like a clan that ought to be cool, but isn't. I like the idea of these ancient undead assassins but I find it hard to play them successfully. Lord knows when we'll see a batch of new cards again, but when we do, here are my suggestions for spicing up the Assamites. These suggestions are intended bring them up to par with the other combat clans, while keeping them true to the White Wolf mythology, and letting them retain their own style. The first thing they need are a few more young Vampires. Capacity 3: Disciplines: obf, qui Capacity 4: Disciplines: obf, cel, qui Capacity 5: Disciplines: CEL, qui, obf, for Capacity 6: Disciplines: cel, QUI, obf Once per combat may strike with first strike. And then a few Quietus cards: Venom Vitae Combat Quietus 1 blood Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the round. Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. Silenced Scream Combat Quietus 2 blood Normal: Strike with first strike. Superior: Only usable before range is chosen during the first round of combat. Opponent does not get any strikes during this combat round. And an Assamite specific combat card: Payment on Delivery Combat Assamite Playable when an Assamite burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals ½ the capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). An Assamite specific weapon: Dagger of the Hashashiyyin Equipment (no cost) Melee weapon: The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage with each strike. A generic weapon that Assamites might enjoy: Sniper's Rifle Equipment 1 pool 3R. Only usable once per round of combat. Only usable at long range. Here's a somewhat related idea. How about a Black Hand expansion for the Sabbat that introduces Assamite Antitribu and also has a focus on the underdeveloped City Gangrel (cel, obf, pro)…. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I > The first thing they need are a few more young Vampires. > > Capacity 3: Disciplines: obf, qui > > Capacity 4: Disciplines: obf, cel, qui > > Capacity 5: Disciplines: CEL, qui, obf, for > > Capacity 6: Disciplines: cel, QUI, obf > Once per combat may strike with first strike. I like all these > And then a few Quietus cards: > > Venom Vitae Combat Quietus 1 blood > Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the round. > Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. This seems pretty cool. In fact it encourages the use of weapons which would encourage the use of anti-weapon cards which is pretty cool. > Silenced Scream Combat Quietus 2 blood > Normal: Strike with first strike. > Superior: Only usable before range is chosen during the first round of combat. > Opponent does not get any strikes during this combat round. This is horrifically overpowered. If you made it so the opponent isnt' able to use strike cards, then it seems to make sense. If you want a one minion entering combat with someone and getting a free whack use this combo. 1) Do some action that they have to block (bum's rush, grave robbing, sensory dep, Govern the Unaligned at basic). What this action is depends on the situation. You can improvise here. The important thing is to get blocked. 2) Play change of target (which only works when you are blocked, as any Toreador player will tell you) 3) Have another minion with obfuscate play Hidden Lurker 4) Take your free swing > > And an Assamite specific combat card: > > Payment on Delivery Combat Assamite Playable when an Assamite > burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals ½ the > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). I like this. Good flavor. but make it cost something 1 blood or something like that > An Assamite specific weapon: > > Dagger of the Hashashiyyin Equipment (no cost) > Melee weapon: The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage with each > strike. This is okay, but nothing special. Very Formulaic > A generic weapon that Assamites might enjoy: > > Sniper's Rifle Equipment 1 pool > 3R. Only usable once per round of combat. Only usable at long range. Also very formulaic. I see this as being a corner case weapon or wallpaper I like the ideas let's keep them coming Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

Just a reminder: Do not print entire card texts in the NG; it raises legal problems bswai...@my-deja.com wrote: > > The Assamites seem like a clan that ought to be cool, but isn't. I like the > idea of these ancient undead assassins but I find it hard to play them > successfully. Lord knows when we'll see a batch of new cards again, but when > we do, here are my suggestions for spicing up the Assamites. > > These suggestions are intended bring them up to par with the other combat > clans, while keeping them true to the White Wolf mythology, and letting them > retain their own style. > > The first thing they need are a few more young Vampires. > > Capacity 3: Disciplines: obf, qui > > Capacity 4: Disciplines: obf, cel, qui > > Capacity 5: Disciplines: CEL, qui, obf, for > > Capacity 6: Disciplines: cel, QUI, obf > Once per combat may strike with first strike. > > And then a few Quietus cards: > > Venom Vitae Combat Quietus 1 blood > Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the round. > Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. > > Silenced Scream Combat Quietus 2 blood > Normal: Strike with first strike. > Superior: Only usable before range is chosen during the first round of combat. > Opponent does not get any strikes during this combat round. > > And an Assamite specific combat card: > > Payment on Delivery Combat Assamite Playable when an Assamite > burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals ½ the > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). > > An Assamite specific weapon: > > Dagger of the Hashashiyyin Equipment (no cost) > Melee weapon: The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage with each > strike. > > A generic weapon that Assamites might enjoy: > > Sniper's Rifle Equipment 1 pool > 3R. Only usable once per round of combat. Only usable at long range. > > Here's a somewhat related idea. How about a Black Hand expansion for the > Sabbat that introduces Assamite Antitribu and also has a focus on the > underdeveloped City Gangrel (cel, obf, pro)…. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. -- S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse a persona che mai tornasse al mondo, questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse. Ma per ciò che giammai di questo fondo non tornò vivo alcun, s'i' odo il vero, senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo. T.S. Eliot- "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

> Venom Vitae Combat Quietus 1 blood > Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the round. > Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. This card exists already: Blood Agony. The only difference is that it has to be used after the first round. > And an Assamite specific combat card: > > Payment on Delivery Combat Assamite Playable when an Assamite > burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals ½ the > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). Obscene. And what kind of rounding is involved with an integer? > Dagger of the Hashashiyyin Equipment (no cost) > Melee weapon: The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage with each > strike. Why bother? It is a free bastard sword for Assamites. > A generic weapon that Assamites might enjoy: > > Sniper's Rifle Equipment 1 pool > 3R. Only usable once per round of combat. Only usable at long range. A shotgun is 2 pool, and I can use it at close range, once per combat. One of the weaknesses of the Assamites are the long range only cards. Why add others?

In article <38F3C265...@midway.uchicago.edu>, Tom Longwell <trlo...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes >Just a reminder: Do not print entire card texts in the NG; it raises >legal problems Beat me to it! -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.zephyr.org.uk

In article <Pine.GSO.4.05.10004111917180.21139-100000@amber>, Richard Conrad Zink <rz...@bios.unc.edu> wrote: > > > Venom Vitae=09Combat=09Quietus=091 blood > > Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the rou= > nd. > > Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. > > This card exists already: Blood Agony. The only difference is that it has Actually you are wrong. Blood Agony gives aggravated hand and melee weapon damage. The above only gives it to weapons > to be used after the first round. > > > And an Assamite specific combat card: > >=20 > > Payment on Delivery=09Combat=09=09Assamite Playable when an Assamite > > burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals =BD= > the > > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). > > Obscene. And what kind of rounding is involved with an integer? It means round down XZealot [ quoted text not captured ]

X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > Richard Conrad Zink <rz...@bios.unc.edu> wrote: > > > Collect X pool where X equals =BD= the > > > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). > > > > what kind of rounding is involved with an integer? > > It means round down I believe RCZ was inquiring as to why you need to round an integer at all. Up or down - it wouldn't matter. The answer is, I believe, that the "=BD=" above represents someone's non-ascii (perhaps MS-extended) "1/2" character. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep

In article <8d229d$ko1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes >> Obscene. And what kind of rounding is involved with an integer? > >It means round down It appears that he didn't see the "half" symbol (since he appears to be quoting the encoding for it). [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Silenced Scream Combat Quietus 2 blood > > Normal: Strike with first strike. > > Superior: Only usable before range is chosen during the first round of > combat. > > Opponent does not get any strikes during this combat round. > > This is horrifically overpowered. If you made it so the opponent isnt' > able to use strike cards, then it seems to make sense. i think he means a Quietus version of thoughts betrayed, which as you point out would be ok powerwise and a nice idea. If you want a one > minion entering combat with someone and getting a free whack use this > combo. > > 1) Do some action that they have to block (bum's rush, grave robbing, > sensory dep, Govern the Unaligned at basic). What this action is depends > on the situation. You can improvise here. The important thing is to get > blocked. > 2) Play change of target (which only works when you are blocked, as any > Toreador player will tell you) > 3) Have another minion with obfuscate play Hidden Lurker > 4) Take your free swing > Hmm, i don't think this would work, would it? Change of Target kicks in before combat so you couldn't play a hidden lurker, the opportunity to play which occurs after another minion you control has [a] been blocked, and [b] finished combat with the acting minion. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > 1) Do some action that they have to block (bum's rush, grave robbing, > > sensory dep, Govern the Unaligned at basic). What this action is depends > > on the situation. You can improvise here. The important thing is to get > > blocked. > > 2) Play change of target (which only works when you are blocked, as any > > Toreador player will tell you) > > 3) Have another minion with obfuscate play Hidden Lurker > > 4) Take your free swing > > > Hmm, i don't think this would work, would it? Change of Target kicks in > before combat so you couldn't play a hidden lurker, the opportunity to > play which occurs after another minion you control has [a] been blocked, > and [b] finished combat with the acting minion. Correct. No Hidden Lurker if there has been no combat. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <38F4B9F4...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > 1) Do some action that they have to block (bum's rush, grave robbing, > > > sensory dep, Govern the Unaligned at basic). What this action is depends > > > on the situation. You can improvise here. The important thing is to get > > > blocked. > > > 2) Play change of target (which only works when you are blocked, as any > > > Toreador player will tell you) > > > 3) Have another minion with obfuscate play Hidden Lurker > > > 4) Take your free swing > > > > > Hmm, i don't think this would work, would it? Change of Target kicks in > > before combat so you couldn't play a hidden lurker, the opportunity to > > play which occurs after another minion you control has [a] been blocked, > > and [b] finished combat with the acting minion. > > Correct. No Hidden Lurker if there has been no combat. It was a theory, and had not been put into play yet. So if you are blocked and cancel a combat, then you cannot play cards that require combat to be completed. Ergo, you also can't block someone, obedience and then have one of your minions Fast Reaction the acting minion. Is this also true by your above logic? Granted it is a extreme corner case, but my thoughts on it were that getting combat canceled was the same as completing combat for a blocked action. It is a stretch, but an interesting train of logic. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8d4jfr$d1d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes >It was a theory, and had not been put into play yet. So if you >are blocked and cancel a combat, then you cannot play cards that require >combat to be completed. Ergo, you also can't block someone, obedience >and then have one of your minions Fast Reaction the acting minion. Is >this also true by your above logic? Correct. Fast Reaction: Only usable after a blocking minion you control other than this vampire has just completed combat. No combat, ergo no Fast Reaction. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <muy6T1CM...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In article <8d4jfr$d1d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes > >It was a theory, and had not been put into play yet. So if you > >are blocked and cancel a combat, then you cannot play cards that require > >combat to be completed. Ergo, you also can't block someone, obedience > >and then have one of your minions Fast Reaction the acting minion. Is > >this also true by your above logic? That is kind of funny to me that everyone complains about Assamites needing help with S:CE and that we need new cards printed when the answer is right in front of us. If this ruling was changed it would greatly benifit combat viability and give you that "sneak attack" that many posters to this newgroup have wanted. All without one new card being printed. Now granted this takes a bit of logical twisting, but probably no more than the Life Boon Self Oust. Here is the way I figure it. 1)the action is blocked therefore combat occurs 2)Change of Target cancels the current action and combat. 3)Canceling combat causes combat to end. 4)Combat ending allows for Hidden Lurker to be played [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8d4rlp$mh8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes > If this ruling was changed There's no ruling. We're using card text (which was changed to make it an action modifier, but that's neither here nor there, in Hidden Lurker's case). >it would >greatly benifit combat viability and give you that "sneak attack" that >many posters to this newgroup have wanted. All without one new card >being printed. No, it wouldn't. You also have to block an action before they can Hidden Lurker. In a pro-active rush deck, especially if you use Contracts, they're not going to block most likely, or have any need to block your bleed actions, because they'll be very small. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > There's no ruling. We're using card text (which was changed to make it > an action modifier, but that's neither here nor there, in Hidden > Lurker's case). > > >it would > >greatly benifit combat viability and give you that "sneak attack" that > >many posters to this newgroup have wanted. All without one new card > >being printed. > > No, it wouldn't. I would care to differ >You also have to block an action before they can That is right, you would have to block to make this combo work. > Hidden Lurker. In a pro-active rush deck, especially if you use > Contracts, Actually, most Assamite players I know use Bum's Rush, and there is incentive to block that. They lose the free manuver and are able to protect whichever vampire you are targeting. Plus, bum's rush doesn't require a master phase action. they're not going to block most likely, or have any need to > block your bleed actions, because they'll be very small. You obviously haven't seen that horrifically evil Infernal Familiar Assamite Deck. Where you use the Infernal Familiar to grant you the ability to use off-dicipline bleed Modifiers. It is pretty neat. I believe the Scribe of the Assamites put it together. Dialogue is wonderful, but back to the point. I think that by its very nature you may only cancel a combat that has begun. Therefore combat would be over, and hidden lurker would be playable. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Actually, most Assamite players I know use Bum's Rush, and there is > incentive to block that. They lose the free maneuver and are able to > protect whichever vampire you are targeting. Plus, bum's rush doesn't > require a master phase action. I have given up using the Bum's Rush and gone totally to Contracts. Why? They are a permanent source of rush and kicks serious ass when combined with Fame. :) > > they're not going to block most likely, or have any need to > > block your bleed actions, because they'll be very small. > > You obviously haven't seen that horrifically evil Infernal Familiar > Assamite Deck. Where you use the Infernal Familiar to grant you the > ability to use off-discipline bleed Modifiers. It is pretty neat. I > believe the Scribe of the Assamites put it together. Yep, that was me and thanks for the kind words. What do you mean Parnassus can now bleed for 5 (Govern + conditioning) and grapple in combat! Since when can Kalinda play Horrid Realty! The Infernal Familiars give the Assamites the ability to be something totally different than a standard rush combat clan. Keeping the other players off balance is a huge advantage. Todd Banister Prince of Atlanta Scribe of the Assamites

(snip Infernal Familiar discussion) > Dialogue is wonderful, but back to the point. I think that by its > very nature you may only cancel a combat that has begun. Therefore > combat would be over, and hidden lurker would be playable. I disagree; my intuition says cancelling a combat prevents it from ever having occurred. What you are describing seems more like Elysium's effect, in Obedience's case, it says "Only usable when about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire". About to, which implies the combat never actually starts. Just my opinion. -T > Comments Welcome, > Norman S. Brown Jr. > X_Zealot > Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

(snip comments) > I disagree; my intuition says cancelling a combat prevents it from ever > having occurred. What you are describing seems more like Elysium's > effect, in Obedience's case, it says "Only usable when about to enter > combat with an acting younger vampire". About to, which implies the > combat never actually starts. Just my opinion. I am all for everyone's opinion, and I certainly see how you could take it that way on face value. I am following the logic.path of how can you stop something if you never started it. How can you cancel a combat if the combat was not initiated in the first place. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. X_Zealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

Question: I understand why this guideline would apply for printing the copywritten card text from actual cards... but... what about purely hypothetical cards like in this post? Is that still discouraged? In article <6f+tfKH5...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <38F3C265...@midway.uchicago.edu>, Tom Longwell > <trlo...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes > >Just a reminder: Do not print entire card texts in the NG; it raises > >legal problems > > Beat me to it! > > -- > James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) > > Vampire: Elder Kindred Network > http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.zephyr.org.uk > [ quoted text not captured ]

> > I disagree; my intuition says cancelling a combat prevents it from >> ever having occurred. > I am all for everyone's opinion, and I certainly see how you could take > it that way on face value. I am following the logic.path of how can you > stop something if you never started it. How can you cancel a combat if > the combat was not initiated in the first place. Firstly: The RTR is that the VTES text is the correct one, so from it I quote. ------ Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. Instead of entering combat, this vampire remains untapped; untap the acting vampire. ------ The words "instead of entering combat" make it very clear that combat never begins. Secondly: The word 'cancel' can be found in the dictionary... ------ cancel n : a notation cancelling a previous sharp or flat [syn: natural] v 1: postpone indefinitely or annul something that was scheduled; "Call off the engagement"; "cancel the dinner party" [syn: call off] 2: make up for; "His skills offset his opponent's superior strength" [syn: offset, set off] 3: declare void and nul; make ineffective; "Cancel the election results" 4: remove or make invisible; "Please delete my name from your list" [syn: delete] 5: of cheques or tickets [syn: invalidate] ------ This makes it pretty clear that events can be cancelled before they begin, per defn 1 Similarly an item can be cancelled after it begins, per defn 4 Thus we must read the card to determine in which contect the word 'cancel' is used. "Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat" is as clear a statement of timing as we could ask for. Sorry to rain on the parade :o) Dog

> > > > Venom Vitae Combat Quietus 1 blood > > Normal: Damage from melee weapons is aggravated util the end of the > round. > > Superior: As above, but until the end of combat. > > This seems pretty cool. In fact it encourages the use of weapons which > would encourage the use of anti-weapon cards which is pretty cool. > > Yeah, I think weapon use is a natural for the Assamites (since Disguised weapon can help with the loss of time/could get blocked issue).And both weapons and anti-weapons seem to be underused. The second round requirement for Blood Agony makes it rarely worth it. I think the weapons only requirement would be easier to play and more interesting. > Silenced Scream Combat Quietus 2 blood > > Normal: Strike with first strike. > > Superior: Only usable before range is chosen during the first round of > combat. > > Opponent does not get any strikes during this combat round. > > This is horrifically overpowered. If you made it so the opponent isnt' > able to use strike cards, then it seems to make sense. Obviously, this was intended along the lines of Immortal Grapple and Thoughts Betrayed as a powerful anti-S:CE card. (with an Assamite flavor) And I probably wouldn't pitch it if those cards didn't exist. But they do. And it seems like that kind of capability is important is you want to play in the big leagues as a combat clan or discipline. I included TB's disadvantages (need superior to be useful, high cost), which should keep it from being unbalancing. Also, both IG and TB would pretty much trump this card. But I'm sympathetic to the argument that more cards like TB and IG are the last things the game needs. > > > > And an Assamite specific combat card: > > > > Payment on Delivery Combat Assamite Playable when an .Assamite > > burns a Vampire with a Contract on him. Collect X pool where X equals > 1/2 the > > capacity of the burned vampire (rounding up). > > I like this. Good flavor. but make it cost something 1 blood or > something like that I think this fits nicely with the spirit of a Contract kill. Making it have a cost seems to kind of defeat the purpose. > > An Assamite specific weapon: > > > > Dagger of the Hashashiyyin Equipment (no cost) > > Melee weapon: The minion with this equipment inflicts +1 hand damage > with each > > strike. > > This is okay, but nothing special. Very Formulaic Yeah, I wasn't trying for anything razzle-dazzle, just a very cheap, but useful weapon to encourage weapon use some more. For a little more pizzaz it could be: Unique, 2 Pool, Combat +1 Hand Damage. Play before range is chosen. Keep as equipment. Use with first strike once per combat. > > > > Sniper's Rifle Equipment 1 pool > > 3R. Only usable once per round of combat. Only usable at long range. > > Also very formulaic. I see this as being a corner case weapon or > wallpaper > I think this would be cheap enough to be affordable. Powerful enough to be useful. And limited enough not to unbalance or overshadow other weapons. Yeah, its nothing radical. A Combat Shotgun at 1/3 cost. But you have to come up with the maneuvers, so it'd have to be part of an integrated strategy. No, it wouldn't go into every deck, but... well, I'd play it... [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <28pJ4.175$35....@eagle.america.net>, Todd Banister <T_Ban...@Premier-Lending.com> writes >I have given up using the Bum's Rush and gone totally to Contracts. Why? >They are a permanent source of rush and kicks serious ass when combined with >Fame. :) Neat. Add Catacombs and Humanitas to taste. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8d51ji$tlt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com writes >> Hidden Lurker. In a pro-active rush deck, especially if you use >> Contracts, > >Actually, most Assamite players I know use Bum's Rush, and there is >incentive to block that. They lose the free manuver and are able to >protect whichever vampire you are targeting. But if they see Hidden Lurker come up, they stop blocking, and just start throwing 27 Majesties into the deck, so don't care whether your rush is successful or not. :( Hidden Lurker is a card I would *like* to see work. It just isn't very workable, most of the time. I can't recall seeing (myself) a deck that is strongly based around it (as opposed to having one or two for "surprise" value) ever. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8d5s3k$rjn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, bswai...@my-deja.com writes >what about purely hypothetical cards like in this post? Is that still >discouraged? That's the one that's specifically discouraged. WotC made it known that they would never use hypothetical cards because of copyright disputes. WW have not clarified their position on this. Until such a time as their position is made clear, *not* printing card texts is the best option. (They could, theoretically, get sued by someone for copyright infringment. However unlikely this is to happen, or succeed, it is hassle a company does not need - so not using *any* texts they see anywhere is the best option.) [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe wrote: > Hidden Lurker is a card I would *like* to see work. It just isn't very > workable, most of the time. I can't recall seeing (myself) a deck that > is strongly based around it (as opposed to having one or two for > "surprise" value) ever. This makes me wonder -- if it's perfectly fine for pulling the occasional nasty surprise, and thus worth including one or two in your deck, then why is it "unworkable" just because it's not a good card to build a deck around? I don't think most cards are intended to be the basis for a deck. -David

In article <93JslDBj...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >Hidden Lurker is a card I would *like* to see work. It just isn't very >workable, most of the time. I can't recall seeing (myself) a deck that >is strongly based around it (as opposed to having one or two for >"surprise" value) ever. I've got a deck that relies upon it. Basically a bruise and bleed deck, using Nos enforcers combined with dominate weenies. Bleed with the weenies (which lessens the general bruise and bleed weakness to bleed bounce and Archon Investigation), and if they block, Drawing out the Beast, Hidden Lurker, and POT. The idea obviously is to maximize the cost of them just not blocking. Some of the enforcers also had dominate, so they could assist bleeding against some prey, bleed bounce, govern the unaligned, or just hunt+BloodDoll if nobody blocked. It's vicious but doesn't have any vote defense (I didn't use any Bum's Rush), which can hurt since it's not terribly fast. Also the dominate weenies often turned out to be more sacrificial than I would have liked -- although that's probably because I was trying to GtA+Condition with them.

In article <38F76E87...@amadan.org>, David Edelstein <ama...@amadan.org> wrote: >James Coupe wrote: >> Hidden Lurker is a card I would *like* to see work. It just isn't very >> workable, most of the time. I can't recall seeing (myself) a deck that >> is strongly based around it (as opposed to having one or two for >> "surprise" value) ever. > >This makes me wonder -- if it's perfectly fine for pulling the >occasional nasty surprise, and thus worth including one or two in your >deck, then why is it "unworkable" just because it's not a good card to >build a deck around? I don't think most cards are intended to be the >basis for a deck. Because decks that would benefit from it tend to rely on beating people up, and hence need a reliable way to do it. Decks that would benefit from it also tend to be exceptionally short on card space, and can't afford such prayer cards.

Absolutely! I wrote about this strategy in my last Assamite Newsletter. This combination of Contract/Fame/Humanitas/Catacombs has been by far the best "trick" (if you will) that I have found when playing the Assamites. Todd Banister Prince of Atlanta Scribe of the Assamites James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:5XDtNNBJ...@obeah.demon.co.uk... > In article <28pJ4.175$35....@eagle.america.net>, Todd Banister > <T_Ban...@Premier-Lending.com> writes > >I have given up using the Bum's Rush and gone totally to Contracts. Why? > >They are a permanent source of rush and kicks serious ass when combined with > >Fame. :) > > Neat. Add Catacombs and Humanitas to taste. > [ quoted text not captured ]

> Absolutely! I wrote about this strategy in my last Assamite Newsletter. This > combination of Contract/Fame/Humanitas/Catacombs has been by far the best > "trick" (if you will) that I have found when playing the Assamites. The only problem with that combo is that it takes 3 master cards and with the Assamites, that generally means 3 seperate turns (barring the Parthenon). Fame has to go first, then Contract else you'll not really get much benefit from Fame. You better have Rush actions in there else you'll have to wait a turn before your Assamites do anything and that is definitely not a good thing. I'd be very curious to find out how you have this working, especially in light of a previous statement in another post that said you've all but dumped Rush actions altogether in favor of Contracts. Sorrow --- "Are they dead?" - Pugsly "Does it matter?" - Wednesday

In article <38F76E87...@amadan.org>, David Edelstein <ama...@amadan.org> writes >This makes me wonder -- if it's perfectly fine for pulling the >occasional nasty surprise, and thus worth including one or two in your >deck, then why is it "unworkable" just because it's not a good card to >build a deck around? It was being posited as an Assamite anti-S:CE card. "That is kind of funny to me that everyone complains about Assamites needing help with S:CE and that we need new cards printed when the answer is right in front of us. " In the one or two occasions it could be used, it would be. But 1 or 2 successful kills does not a successful combat deck make. :( [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <R2OJ4.2388$%L6.1...@monger.newsread.com>, Sorrow <cbo...@apdi.net> writes >> Absolutely! I wrote about this strategy in my last Assamite Newsletter. >>This >> combination of Contract/Fame/Humanitas/Catacombs has been by far the best >> "trick" (if you will) that I have found when playing the Assamites. > >The only problem with that combo is that it takes 3 master cards and >with the Assamites, that generally means 3 seperate turns (barring the >Parthenon). Actually, only the Fame and the Contract are "essential". And even the Contract can be ditched in favour of transient rushes if no Contracts turn up. Catacombs can be done as a minion phase action instead, and Humanitas is only needed once, too. And neither of them are *essential*, just nice to have. If you can throw in Underworld Hunting Ground, too, that would also help off-set the blood cost of rescuing. (Though if you're using something like inferior Taste of Death, you can force the other vampire to pay for it (since they probably have some left), saving you lots of luvverly blood.) Of course, the problem with actually inflicting the damage is still there. :( [ quoted text not captured ]

> >>This combination of Contract/Fame/Humanitas/Catacombs has > >>been by far the best "trick" (if you will) that I have found when > >>playing the Assamites. > >The only problem with that combo is that it takes 3 master cards and > >with the Assamites, that generally means 3 seperate turns (barring the > >Parthenon). > Actually, only the Fame and the Contract are "essential". And even the > Contract can be ditched in favour of transient rushes if no Contracts > turn up. James, I understand that. However, Todd said, as is quoted above, that the specificed combo was the best "trick" that he has found. I then asked, again as quoted above, how he was able to get it to work especially (and you didn't include this part in your message) since Todd has stated that he has ditched Rush actions in favor of all Contracts. This is something that only Todd can answer as he would be able to explain how he gets this trick to work (consistantly enough to merit inclusion and endorsement) and not just tell me something that I already know. Sorrow --- "This is my costume. I'm a homicidal maniac. They look just like everyone else." -- Wednesday Addams

On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, James Coupe wrote: > Catacombs can be done as a minion phase action instead, and Humanitas is > only needed once, too. And neither of them are *essential*, just nice > to have. If you can throw in Underworld Hunting Ground, too, that would > also help off-set the blood cost of rescuing. (Though if you're using > something like inferior Taste of Death, you can force the other vampire > to pay for it (since they probably have some left), saving you lots of > luvverly blood.) Can you really do that - rescue other Metu's vampire and making him pay for it? - Ron -

Ron Ahonen <r...@beta.hut.fi> wrote: > James Coupe wrote: > Can you really do that - rescue other Metu's vampire and [make] > him pay for it? Yes, if he has sufficient blood. Rulebook: 6.5.3. Rescue a Vampire from Torpor This action costs two blood, which can be paid by the acting vampire or the rescued vampire, or the cost may be split between them. Allies cannot take this action. Rescuing a paralyzed vampire costs no blood (see Strike Effects, sec. 6.4.5). To have a vampire rescue a vampire from torpor, announce the action (including how the cost will be paid) and tap the acting vampire. If the action is successful, the cost is paid and the vampire in torpor is moved to the ready region. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep [ quoted text not captured ]

> James, I understand that. However, Todd said, as is quoted above, > that the specified combo was the best "trick" that he has found. I > then asked, again as quoted above, how he was able to get it to work > especially (and you didn't include this part in your message) since Todd > has stated that he has ditched Rush actions in favor of all Contracts. This > is something that only Todd can answer as he would be able to explain > how he gets this trick to work (consistently enough to merit inclusion and > endorsement) and not just tell me something that I already know. > > Sorrow The answer to your question is completely in timing. You seem to think that you want it to work by turn three or at least early in the game - that's not the case with this combo. I have done this a few times and found that this is the exact WRONG thing to do. In the cases that I did get the combo (Fame/Contract) into play quickly - I found that my prey stopped transferring other vampires out thus forcing me to "dunk" the chosen target numerous times in order to collect my VP. More work - less profit. The power/effectiveness of the combo really shines is in the mid-game when your prey transfers down to around 7-10 pool. At this point - your VP is only a couple of dunks away. Take your time - build up - then unleash the combo. Also - To make this combo work optimally - you have to understand the basis in how I play/view the Assamites. There are two standard ways of getting into combat: rush and block. Most people have tried the rush combat angle with the Assamites with little success (myself included). This is due to the limited number of actions that they can take on any given turn. I have gone the other route and built my decks around Parnassus (mainly) and Al-Ashrad in order to capitalize on their auspex. This way the game does not become a battle of - can you get vampires out faster than I can rush and kill them. I allow them (predator/prey) to build up and then I block the critical actions and beat them up in combat. You do not have to intercept everything - its just those few critical actions that most decks desperately need to work. Auspex also allows me to bounce bleeds that I can not handle on to my prey thus softening them up to the Famous combo. :) Combine the Assamites with small Toreadors plus Zoė and you have a lot of Auspex/Celerity support for your assassins. :) Hope this helps, [ quoted text not captured ]