TOM: Q: damage modification timing

In article <4e3ij4$1...@gw.dgii.com>, jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) wrote: : I was under the impression (a ruling?) that non-aggravated damage was : always dealt with first, thus denying the opportunity for the choice in : the first place... : Well, nonaggravted damage is healed before aggravated damage. But a vampire chooses which damage to prevent, and will almost invariably choose to prevent the aggravated damage. So in effect, damage dealt is not healed until after some or all is prevented. Scott is correct in the way the strike resolution phase should work. All damage to be inflicted (and all modifiers) should appy at the same time. Then after the damage inflicted (and type) is known, you can start choosing which damage to prevent. Then you heal the normal damage. Then you deal with any aggravated damage, sending the vamp to torpor, and/or burning it. Just my thoughts on the matter. stephen beaulieu hi...@mail.utexas.edu

I was under the impression (a ruling?) that non-aggravated damage was always dealt with first, thus denying the opportunity for the choice in the first place... -spongy L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote: : Two vamps are in combat, both are sporting .44 Magnums. : They each choose their .44 for their respective strikes. : They both play superior Skin of Rock to prevent two : points of damage. : They both draw Dragon Breath Rounds and play them to modify : their strikes. : Can they now switch which two points of damage to prevent : (obviously wanting to prevent the agg instead of the normal : damage)? : ---- : Note: this only comes up because of the distinction you give : to ammo cards as opposed to other damage modifiers : (notably claws). : All damage modifiers should be applied to a currently : unrecognized sub-phase of check damage - apply strike. : Then, after applying the strike, the next sub-phase would : be 'heal damage' - during which damage prevention cards : could be played, but not damage modifiers (or, at least, : damage modifiers could no longer affect the current strike). : As long as you have no division of the 'check damage' : step, ammo will continue to work in the stilted fasion : detailed above - a fasion you yourself found odd enough : to disallow for Claws <47lth3$5...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>: : Biomech8 <biom...@aol.com> wrote: : >> Strike (actor) : >> Strike (victim) : >> Now is the last time to use Wolf Claws et.c : >> Strike Resolution now occurs : >Can't Wolf Claws/Claws of the Dead be played during the strike resolution? : > Does the list above allow for the actor to play WC/CotD after the victem : >declares their strike? (which is essentially the same as during strike : >resolution) ~Biomechanoid : : The acting vampire can certainly wait to see what the defending minion will : do before deciding whether or not to pop the Claws. The current rulings : appear to say that you can pop them during strike resolution itself, but : I'm not sure that this is/should be correct. For example, it seems odd : to me that a vampire could take some first strike damage, play damage : prevention cards, draw Claws to replace the d-p card(s), and then pop : the Claws. I'm going to have to find out what, if anything, we want : to do so bout this. : --- : Leading to: Rules Team Ruling 1/12/96: : 2) Wolf Claws, and related cards, must be played before the end of : the Choose Strike phase if they are to count for the current strike. For : example, playing them during the Check Damage phase won't affect strikes : already played. : -- : L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and : http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. : Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) writes: >I was under the impression (a ruling?) that non-aggravated damage was >always dealt with first, thus denying the opportunity for the choice in >the first place... non-agg is applied first, but when preventing damage (Flak Jacket, Skin of Rock, etc.) the preventor always chooses which damage to prevent - not necessarily simply preventing the first damage applied. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >Two vamps are in combat, both are sporting .44 Magnums. >They each choose their .44 for their respective strikes. > >They both play superior Skin of Rock to prevent two >points of damage. > >They both draw Dragon Breath Rounds and play them to modify >their strikes. > >Can they now switch which two points of damage to prevent >(obviously wanting to prevent the agg instead of the normal damage)? The intention of ammo cards is that you play them before any damage prevention begins. The real question is what you believe the card texts actually say. Let's take a look at what the text says: "Only usable when damage from a gun is being resolved." It should be clear that damage prevention is only used when damage has already happened, i.e., resolved. Since the ammo is used while the damage is resolved, it is therefore used before any damage prevention. The fact that the "check damage" step is not formally broken down into "apply strikes" and "prevent effects of strikes" should not prevent this interpretation. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

[ quoted text not captured ] The why the fancy footwork for Claws? It should be obvious for non-ammo damage modifiers, too. ----- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Skin of Steel - short question Date: 6 Nov 1995 21:08:51 GMT Message-ID: <47lth3$5...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Biomech8 <biom...@aol.com> wrote: >> Strike (actor) >> Strike (victim) >> Now is the last time to use Wolf Claws et.c >> Strike Resolution now occurs >Can't Wolf Claws/Claws of the Dead be played during the strike resolution? > Does the list above allow for the actor to play WC/CotD after the victem >declares their strike? (which is essentially the same as during strike >resolution) ~Biomechanoid The acting vampire can certainly wait to see what the defending minion will do before deciding whether or not to pop the Claws. The current rulings appear to say that you can pop them during strike resolution itself, but I'm not sure that this is/should be correct. For example, it seems odd to me that a vampire could take some first strike damage, play damage prevention cards, draw Claws to replace the d-p card(s), and then pop the Claws. I'm going to have to find out what, if anything, we want to do so bout this. ---- If the "current rulings appear to say that you can pop them during strike resolution itself" seemed odd enough to issue the ruling for Claws, why does the same situation (worse, actually, since ammo can *only* be played during strike resolution) not seem to attract your attention in this case? [ quoted text not captured ]

I've a few questions... 1) When you use cards in the minion phase to put blood on uncontrolled vamps, like Govern the Unaligned, et al., which is sufficient to move the vamp into the controlled region, when does the movement take place? Immediately or during the influence phase? 2) What does being non-Camarilla mean and what are its effects? 3) Where can I find a complete, official FAQ for V:TES and Dark Sovereigns?

the...@aol.com (THeerm) writes: >I've a few questions... >1) When you use cards in the minion phase to put blood on uncontrolled >vamps, like Govern the Unaligned, et al., which is sufficient to move the >vamp into the controlled region, when does the movement take place? >Immediately or during the influence phase? ----- From: aa...@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster Subject: NEW: Rulings summary for Jyhad Date: 9 Nov 1994 13:11:24 -0800 Message-ID: <39rdts$s...@perv.hal.COM> Govern the Unaligned: If the younger vampire is filled up, it still won't come into play until the end of the influence phase. ----- >2) What does being non-Camarilla mean and what are its effects? ----- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Rules Team Rulings: 11/10/95 Date: 12 Nov 1995 00:34:44 GMT Message-ID: <483ff4$9...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> 2) Non-Camarilla vampires cannot be princes, although they can become primogen members. If a Non-Camarilla vampire begins with votes and later gains a title, she loses the votes she started with, just as if the vampire had lost a title. 3) Non-Camarilla vampires cannot call Praxis Seizures. They cannot call Justicar Retribution or Command of the Harpies, or call a vote to burn Elysium: the Arboretum. In addition, Non-Camarilla vampires cannot be chosen as an Archon or Camarilla Exemplary. ----- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: TOM:[Q] Non-camarilla voting revisited... Date: 27 Dec 1995 20:13:51 GMT Message-ID: <4bs9dv$c...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> James Puzzo <jam...@gw.digibd.com> wrote: >From the original RTR in November, I thought that it was made quite clear >that the restrictions on Non-Camarillas were the following: > They couldn't become princes. > They couldn't be named Archons or Camarilla Exemp. > They can't call the following votes: praxis seizures, justicar > retribution, command of the harpies, a vote to burn Elysium: > the Arboretum. > >By definition, this would exclude Non-Camarillas from calling >Prince/Justicar/IC member only votes. Right. >By inference, I would imagine that they also cannot call Camarilla >Exemp. as it is a Camarilla type vote (but I could be wrong). Correct. ----- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Rules Team Rulings: 1/12/96 Date: 14 Jan 1996 00:11:10 GMT Message-ID: <4d9hmu$p...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> 13) Non-Camarilla vampires still suffer the effects of blocking a vampire who is an Archon or Camarilla Exemplary, even though they may become neither. ----- From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Rules Team Rulings: 1/24/96 Date: 24 Jan 1996 21:40:18 GMT Message-ID: <4e6902$t...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> 4) Non-Camarilla vampires cannot play Masquerade Enforcement, nor can they call the vote to burn it. ----- >3) Where can I find a complete, official FAQ for V:TES and Dark >Sovereigns? You can't. WotC doesn't maintain one. I maintain an unnoficial compilation of the official rulings, which is available on my Web page (http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson/jyhad) and is posted to this newsgroup on the 1st and 16th of every month. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>3) Where can I find a complete, official FAQ for V:TES and Dark >>Sovereigns? >You can't. WotC doesn't maintain one. Ah, we do have a FAQ for VTES, though we don't have the time or inclination to update it monthly, and it isn't on the web site at the moment (which I'm taking steps to correct). Customer Service hasn't made noises about a DS-specific FAQ, and they're usually the ones to start FAQs, so I'll check into that. [ quoted text not captured ]

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>>3) Where can I find a complete, official FAQ for V:TES and Dark >>>Sovereigns? >>You can't. WotC doesn't maintain one. >Ah, we do have a FAQ for VTES, though we don't have the time or inclination >to update it monthly, and it isn't on the web site at the moment (which >I'm taking steps to correct). Customer Service hasn't made noises about >a DS-specific FAQ, and they're usually the ones to start FAQs, so I'll >check into that. Where is this FAQ currently? ftp? posted periodically? available via e-mail request to cust...@wizards.com? ----- What web site? The wizards web site, or some unmentioned VtES site (or are you referring to the unofficial 'volunteer' site maintained on itis)? ----- I would be happy to take the time (and inclination) to update it at whatever frequency you'd like, if you're interested. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Any sufficiently advanced bug is http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | indistinguishable from a feature. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Kulawiec