Art of Memory

Very interesting new card. I think many combo decks will benefit... although I think stealth bleed will as well... Voting & bloating... The Black Hand restriction is nice..

Selena Govern with perfect clarity & bonding, which do you choose? Jalan with uncontrollable rage...

I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as during the action?) Halcyan 2

I can see this card being used to recycle tastes, immortal grapples and such key combat cards. ben szymkow

"If the action is successful, move one card played by this vampire during this action from your ash heap to your hand." When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat back into your hand.

"Aramis" <came...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:d9925496.03111...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back important combat cards. I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when announcing the action. I can see more use in a Bleeder where you can choose to either recycle the bleed card OR the stealth card, whichever one you need more. This would really help fight hand jams with preys that refuse to block. I can also see this used in a vote deck, where you can choose to recycle the stealth, the bewitching, the awe, the voter caps or maybe even the Kiss of Ra. I'm not sure if you're able to recycle the political card itself, but I think you can't. It specifically says "during the action", which doesn't start before the action card itself is resolved. So, at a first glance this *seems* to help bleeders and voters more than it does fighters. A good thing, since if we're spicing up fighter a LOT (which Black Hand seems to do), you need to give the rest some new options too.

> > "If the action is successful, move one card played by this vampire > > during this action from your ash heap to your hand." > > > > When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you > > can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat > > back into your hand. > > The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back > important combat cards. > > I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle > key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of > those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it > failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when > announcing the action. > > I can see more use in a Bleeder where you can choose to either recycle > the bleed card OR the stealth card, whichever one you need more. This > would really help fight hand jams with preys that refuse to block. I can > also see this used in a vote deck, where you can choose to recycle the > stealth, the bewitching, the awe, the voter caps or maybe even the Kiss > of Ra. No. Kiss : Only usable when a vampire who does not have Fortitude attempts to block this acting minion. [for] The block attempt is canceled, the blocking vampire burns 2 blood, and the action is now blocked. [FOR] As above, and the blocking vampire goes into torpor. If the action is blocked, it is not succesful. Orpheus, the guy with a crack (!) for stating the obvious.

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031111125859...@mb-m07.aol.com>... > I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as > during the action?) > > Halcyan 2 i am also wondering if you can retrieve that are burned during the action, like sunrise service or spying mission -Prince of Harrisburg

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:45:41 +0100, "Ulugh Beg II" <dontfe...@spam.me> scrawled: > >"Aramis" <came...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht >news:d9925496.03111...@posting.google.com... >> "If the action is successful, move one card played by this vampire >> during this action from your ash heap to your hand." >> >> When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you >> can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat >> back into your hand. > >The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back >important combat cards. > >I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle >key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of >those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it >failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when >announcing the action. just like you mentioned for voters/bleeders, it gives you the _options_. You can recyle the maneuver if there's a lot of manevering going around. or the grapple/psyche if they keep s:ce-ing. or the strike if there's not many maneuvers or s:ce. or the taste if you're running low on blood. or the claws of the dead if there's little fortitude. etc. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

id77...@yahoo.com (isaphrael) wrote in message news:<5494c8c1.03111...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] No, as those are not played during the action, but during a previous action, and then just burnt. There would be no way of getting those cards back using Art of Memory. Aside from not having many of any particular card (usually rares) are there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a Master Card played that turn...) Just my thought, probably will start a flame war, but thought I'd mention it. Andy VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge

> Aside from not having many of any particular card (usually rares) are > there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it > will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses > up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the > discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your > Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I > can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out > Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used > and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a > Master Card played that turn...) Well, depending on how combo intensive the deck may be, having a card that can essentially turn into a number of different cards is always useful.

id77...@yahoo.com (isaphrael) wrote in message news:<5494c8c1.03111...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Does aren't played, so can't be retrieved... would be my guess..

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20031111125859...@mb-m07.aol.com>... > I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as > during the action?) Don't think so. You announce the action by playing the action card. Then the action starts more or less. So I guess it can't be retrieved this way Pepijn

[ quoted text not captured ] After the action is resolved. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:23:09 -0500, "Albert Chang" <na...@hotmail.com> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] exactly. it gives you options. your deck, presumably, will have a number of cards that do stuff in various different scenarios. now, instead of adding more of X if you find you need it, but then if you're not up against Y, X is useless and you would have been better off with Z, you could 'hedge' your bets and play with Art of Memory, and retrieve whichever of X or Z you need in the given situation. simple example: stealth bleed. if you see a lot of intercept, you'll want more stealth to make sure you get through. but if you're not bleeding an intercepty person, you'd wish all those stealth cards were +bleed. AoM lets you retrieve whichever you need depending on your prey's defenses. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> wrote in message news:<eA8sb.4988$H91.1...@news.itd.umich.edu>... > Very interesting new card. > > I think many combo decks will benefit. > hmm. At its most obvious, this sidesteps rarity restrictions. It you don't own 8 Mind Rapes (but why not?!?) then 6 of them and 2 Art of Memory (AoM) might just suffice. It even improves card cycling from your hand. Horrid Form stands out initially as a deck type that would benefit from this angle- all you need is to see one and the multiples will stack up. It is harder, however, to come up with instances where you would include it over additional copies of the cards themselves. Although, I suppose that polital actions could be saved from an unexpected failed referendum. Even then why not just include methods of ensuring the referendum passes? To get maximum use from the card you would need a multi-card combination where as soon as you saw one part of the combo, the Art of Memories would cycle away duplicate copies in order to get the other part(s) into your hand quicker. I think that combat deck might just do well out of this. They frequently need Grapple+strike+press or some combination therein. They can also tailor what they keep to the deck they are fighting: e.g: keep a copy of Drawing out the Beast in hand versus guns decks and cycle them away when they were not needed. Interesting card Matt Green

an...@operamail.com (Slytherin) wrote in message news:<deb2bc7d.03111...@posting.google.com>... > Aside from not having many of any particular card (usually rares) are > there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it > will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses > up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the > discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your > Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I > can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out > Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used > and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a > Master Card played that turn...) > > Just my thought, probably will start a flame war, but thought I'd > mention it. You can always view it as 'takes up one card, plus gives you an extra discard', especially if you're the sort of player who favors putting the Barrens in your deck (or all your decks). Also consider that not every player has as many of every card that they'd like - lots of players build decks that say 'boy, if I only had more of this card, I'd put it in there' - this gives them a way to make some of their limited resources go further (without having to play with Necromancy). I expect we'll see people using it to retrieve things like Awe, for example. > Andy > VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge -John Flournoy

flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) wrote in message news:<57327a82.03111...@posting.google.com>... > Also consider that not every player has as many of every card that > they'd like - lots of players build decks that say 'boy, if I only had > more of this card, I'd put it in there' - this gives them a way to > make some of their limited resources go further (without having to > play with Necromancy). I expect we'll see people using it to retrieve > things like Awe, for example. Or freakdrives... man, this card goes into like, everydeck. ~SV

On 11 Nov 2003 17:58:59 GMT, halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote: >I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as >during the action?) Yes. LSJ White Wolf Forum 11/12/2003 "The action card counts. It is played during the action. " Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

"Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> escribió en el mensaje news:eA8sb.4988$H91.1...@news.itd.umich.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] I've been thinking on this card for since yesterday. Seeing that dolphin having a bath inside of a cross made of blood, well, I was sure there could be a way in which I could play this card somehow, and not in combo decks. The answer to me, are the almost opposite kind of decks of combo cards: Toolbox. A problem you have when playing toolbox, is that you use small amounts of several cards, most of them contingency, or so. But, once you play the deck, you allways ask yourself, "why haven't I packed more copies of card X? It would have worked like a charm on this game" The answer is art of memory. If you pack, say, 2 entrancements in your deck, "just in case" you'll face any ally deck, well, you achieve to steal 1 of those allies. But with art of memory, you may multiply in fact those cards. So you can go around playing your standard game, and use Art of Memory to retrieve those standard cards that allways are ok (govern the unaligned, art scam, lost in crowds, daring the dawn...) AND if you hold any hoser card against an opponent strategy, abuse it. (jar the soul, entrancement, far mastery, kine dominance, DOMAIN CHALLENGE, DRAMATIC UPHEAVAL, PERFECT CLARITY) thus not having to overload your deck with cards like that, if you really don't need them for the current game, might jam your hand. Now it's time to see how many !toreadors start as black hands, and start abusing of Flipper's help :-P Smiling Tom

Metropolis expounded: > Selena Govern with perfect clarity & bonding, which do you choose? Govern pretty much every time. though obviously it may depend on your hand/deck.

what about drafts? isn't evryone afther the same cards? isn't this a way to help u a little bit on the way? I'm just thinking, if two or more is afther the same diseplin, there is usaly hard to get any good cards, or even avrage. This card makes drafts a little bit more "esey".

[ quoted text not captured ] Still going after the same card. What I often find in V:TES draft is that your good cards are cards other people wanted but had to pass on because there was something better or some rare they felt like drafting. As this happens as often as a pack has nothing but crap, drafting good stuff all of the time makes sense. Add more good stuff and, sure, decks get better, but they should just equally get better which gives you no advantage.

The Art of Memory is a skill that is taught to the Black Hand Assassins, it amounts to great memory skills through strange memorie devices. There are at least two main advantages, aided memory retention through dicipline and it makes it really hard for someone to effectively read your mind, ie you look in my mind and see Flipper jumping out of a cross of blood, what does that mean? Hopefully only I know : )