[LSJ] Parity Shift and Bribes

This interesting situation happened yesterday in our local playgroup : 4 players on the table. I had 5 pool, my prey 6. I was calling a Parity Shift allocating 4 of my prey´s pool to me. After I announced the Parity Shift I played a Bribes going up to 6 pool myself. Does the Parity Shift fizzle because I do not have less pool than the target anymore ? Can I also play Bribes before announcing the vote ? In this case it would have been stupid, but anyway ... -- johannes walch v:ekn germany - http://www.vekn.de/

Johannes Walch wrote: :: This interesting situation happened yesterday in our local :: playgroup : :: :: 4 players on the table. :: :: I had 5 pool, my prey 6. I was calling a Parity Shift allocating 4 :: of my prey´s pool to me. After I announced the Parity Shift I :: played a Bribes going up to 6 pool myself. :: :: Does the Parity Shift fizzle because I do not have less pool than :: the target anymore ? no. :: Can I also play Bribes before announcing the vote ? In this case :: it would have been stupid, but anyway ... no. you announce the terms, then you play bribes =)

>:: 4 players on the table. >:: I had 5 pool, my prey 6. I was calling a Parity Shift allocating 4 >:: of my prey´s pool to me. After I announced the Parity Shift I >:: played a Bribes going up to 6 pool myself. >:: Does the Parity Shift fizzle because I do not have less pool than >:: the target anymore ? > no. I think it does. You announce the terms, then you play bribes, then you cast your votes. If it passes then the shift resolves. When it resolves it finds that it doesn't have a legal target and fizzles.

Timlagor wrote: ::::: 4 players on the table. [ quoted text not captured ] you're talking like you' re playing magic : legal target, fizzle stuff... hey, when you *play* the political card and reach the referendum phase, one of the methuselah has more pool than you do. That's the only thing that matters.

> you're talking like you' re playing magic : legal target, fizzle stuff... I wouldn't know ;-P > hey, when you *play* the political card and reach the referendum phase, one > of the methuselah has more pool than you do. That's the only thing that > matters. To Quote LSJ: ****************************************************** Chris Berger wrote: > Just to be sure I've got this right... > > When attempting an action, you check to make sure it is legal (i.e. legal > target, legal actor, enough blood to pay for it) both when it is attempted > and when it is about to successfully resolve. If it is illegal when it is > attempted, you get to take it back into your hand with a sheepish grin on > your face and get your knuckles rapped with the yardstick (or "meter"-stick, > for you internationales ;) ). If it is illegal when it is attempted, then it is not attempted, since it is illegal. > If it is illegal when resolved, then it goes > to the ash heap, the action is unsuccessful, and you do not pay for it. No. The action has no effect (it is still a "successful" action, since it is unblocked - you still pay for it) - just like any other pre-existing effect that "loses sight" of its target (Aching Beauty on a Toreador who then CIs to a Nosferatu, for example) - the effect no longer applies. ********************************************************** The URL was huge but if you search the group on Google with the terms ------author:LSJ fizzle "legal target"------- you will only get 2 hits. This was the first one.

reyda wrote: > Timlagor wrote: > ::::: 4 players on the table. > ::::: I had 5 pool, my prey 6. I was calling a Parity Shift > ::::: allocating 4 of my prey´s pool to me. After I announced the > ::::: Parity Shift I played a Bribes going up to 6 pool myself. > ::::: Does the Parity Shift fizzle because I do not have less pool > ::::: than the target anymore ? > ::: no. > :: > :: I think it does. > :: > :: You announce the terms, then you play bribes, then you cast your > :: votes. If it passes then the shift resolves. When it resolves it > :: finds that it doesn't have a legal target and fizzles. > > hey, when you *play* the political card and reach the referendum phase, one > of the methuselah has more pool than you do. That's the only thing that > matters. Correct. Card text: "Successful referendum means the chosen Methuselah loses that pool, and it is allocated as you announced." The chosen Methuselah is the one you chose, whether or not she has more pool than you do now. So long as she is a Methuselah, she's the chosen Methuselah. See also Code of Milan Suspended. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Hell, I say play business pressure just to make sure you get under.. LOL Timlagor <Timlagor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<me75lbmhd2ts$.nka0oanq...@40tude.net>... [ quoted text not captured ]

> Hell, I say play business pressure just to make sure you get under.. LOL According to LSJ this is not possible as you can play the business pressure only after announcing the terms of the referendum . [ quoted text not captured ]

> See also Code of Milan Suspended. I thought for Code of Milan Suspended (and any vote) you could gain votes before the terms are set (i.e. discard the edge for a vote before the terms are set.) Isn't this vote significantly underpowered? Ira

Ira wrote: >>See also Code of Milan Suspended. > > > I thought for Code of Milan Suspended (and any vote) you could gain > votes before the terms are set (i.e. discard the edge for a vote > before the terms are set.) You cannot. > Isn't this vote significantly underpowered? Moot. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:25:21 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >Ira wrote: >>>See also Code of Milan Suspended. >> >> >> I thought for Code of Milan Suspended (and any vote) you could gain >> votes before the terms are set (i.e. discard the edge for a vote >> before the terms are set.) > >You cannot. > >> Isn't this vote significantly underpowered? > >Moot. but even though you can still make the methuselah with the edge burn a pool regardless of them burning it or not, Code of Milan suspended is still significantly underpowered, imo. :) although it's one of the few pool burning votes that only hurts one player..... salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F15A6A1...@white-wolf.com>... > Ira wrote: > >>See also Code of Milan Suspended. > > > > > > I thought for Code of Milan Suspended (and any vote) you could gain > > votes before the terms are set (i.e. discard the edge for a vote > > before the terms are set.) > > You cannot. > Wow LSJ, You've confused me now. What exactly stops someone from tapping Ventrue HQ, or from spending pool on Oxford University, or playing Awe/Bewitching Oration before the terms are set? I thought it had been cleared up in april in another thread (those damned Oxonians/Oxfordians ..)that specifically, you could gain votes *before*, but couln't cast them until *after* the terms were set? Thanks for clearing this out LSJ Greetz Jo

[ quoted text not captured ] Hmm. Right. You can burn the edge before terms are set. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:40:48 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >wolflord wrote: >> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F15A6A1...@white-wolf.com>... >> >>>Ira wrote: >>> >>>>>See also Code of Milan Suspended. >>>> >>>> >>>> I thought for Code of Milan Suspended (and any vote) you could gain >>>>votes before the terms are set (i.e. discard the edge for a vote >>>>before the terms are set.) >>> >>>You cannot. >> >> Wow LSJ, >> You've confused me now. >> What exactly stops someone from tapping Ventrue HQ, or from spending >> pool on Oxford University, or playing Awe/Bewitching Oration before >> the terms are set? >> I thought it had been cleared up in april in another thread (those >> damned Oxonians/Oxfordians ..)that specifically, you could gain votes >> *before*, but couln't cast them until *after* the terms were set? >> Thanks for clearing this out LSJ > >Hmm. Right. > >You can burn the edge before terms are set. so will you concede code of milan suspended is significantly underpowered now? ;) or, better yet, just get the RT to make it so you can't gain votes until after terms are set. (but you could still concede that even then code of milan suspended is significantly underpowered. count this as a Black Hand power-up re-print request) [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: > > You can burn the edge before terms are set. If the Edge is controlled by a different Methuselah than the acting one, can the acting Meth set the terms before the Edge is burned? Or is there some "before terms are set" phase, sort sof similar to "only usable before range" phase in the referendum? Could someone play a Dread Gaze to gain votes before the terms are set? If yes, then could it be done on a vote that automatically passes (e.g. Charming Lobby is in play), before the terms are set? Could Delaying Tactics be played before the terms are set? Stone

Stone wrote: > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: > >>You can burn the edge before terms are set. > > If the Edge is controlled by a different Methuselah than the acting one, can > the acting Meth set the terms before the Edge is burned? Or is there some > "before terms are set" phase, sort sof similar to "only usable before range" > phase in the referendum? This "before terms stuff" is, IMO, getting to be more trouble than it's worth (which, given its worth, isn't hard to achieve). I'm adding it to the RT list for review. Given the previous ruling re: CoMS, there must be some sort of before terms step. > Could someone play a Dread Gaze to gain votes before the terms are set? If Yes. > yes, then could it be done on a vote that automatically passes (e.g. > Charming Lobby is in play), before the terms are set? No. > Could Delaying Tactics be played before the terms are set? Except on auto-pass votes, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]