1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how do
you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught in
the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.
Violet Tremain, a Tzimisce, has the special ability that "If Violet
successfully inflicts at least 2 hand damage to an opposing vampire during
combat, reduce that vampire's capacity by 1 at the end of combat. A
vampire's capacity cannot be reduced below 0 in this way."
Also, Mind of a Child, a 3 blood Dementation action, says that "(D) Put
this card on any vampire. The vampire with this card cannot play cards
that require Disciplines. This card may be burned by any vampire as a +1
stealth action. [superior] As above, and the capacity of the vampire with
this card is reduced by 1 (but not below 0). Remove excess blood.
2. Why the distinction in the wording on Powerbase: Mexico City and
Powerbase: New York? If a (D) action cannot be directed against oneself
(by definition), why the extra wording in P:NY?
Powerbase: Mexico City says that "any Sabbat vampire may take a (D)
action to move all the blood on the 'base to his or her controller's pool.
Burn this card when the last blood counter on it is removed."
Powerbase: New York says that "any Sabbat vampire controlled by another
Methuselah can take a (D) action to move all the blood on the 'base to his
or her controller's blood pool. Burn this card when the last blood counter
on it is removed."
3. What if you don't have a retainer or ally in play? Can you still bring
out a War Ghoul?
War Ghoul, 3 pool Tzimisce ally with 5 life. 4 hand damage, 0 bleed.
When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control. She can
attack any vampire as a (D) action. She may prevent 1 damage each round.
Tap and burn War Ghoul to burn any location; you cannot use this ability
during combat.
4. What the blinkety-blank are you talking about with this vampire? One
*what*?
Lena Rowe, 3 Capacity aus obf pre Pander
Lena cannot attempt actions that would give her one and cannot be chosen
as the recipient of one.
5. I think this vampire is glaringly overpowered. For four pool, you not
only gain a vampire with POT CEL for, which I would pay 4 pool for any
day, but you also burn another Methuselah's vampire. The only drawback is
that someone might burn *your* Jimmy Dunn. Haven't we already established
with Camille/Raven that this kind of dynamic (more likely to self-contest)
is a silly one?
Jimmy Dunn, 4 Capacity, POT CEL for Pander
Jimmy Dunn cannot be contested. If a second Jimmy comes into play, burn
the first Jimmy in play instead of contesting him.
6. A general beef: why the escalation that allows vampires to play
additional strikes that do not count against your additional strike count
for the round (such as Quickness). This is not fair, since it cannot be
countered by players who do not buy the Sabbat. If you have to buy an
expansion to be competitive, that's escalation, and it's bad. Now, any
good CEL deck will have cards like Quickness, and they can beat older CEL
decks without even trying.
Thanks,
Judy
--
______________________________________________________________________________
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jcookson |"What's teen spirit"
jcoo...@wam.umd.edu |"Dude, if you don't know, I'm not
jcoo...@eng.umd.edu | going to tell you."
Judith Grunberger thoughtfully stated:
: 5. I think this vampire is glaringly overpowered. For four pool, you not: only gain a vampire with POT CEL for, which I would pay 4 pool for any
: day, but you also burn another Methuselah's vampire. The only drawback is
: that someone might burn *your* Jimmy Dunn. Haven't we already established
: with Camille/Raven that this kind of dynamic (more likely to self-contest)
: is a silly one?: Jimmy Dunn, 4 Capacity, POT CEL for Pander
: Jimmy Dunn cannot be contested. If a second Jimmy comes into play, burn
: the first Jimmy in play instead of contesting him.
I happen to think he might be one of the most interesting cards in the
expansion to play with. But you're right.. he will be in a lot of
crypts.
-Juan
--
___
/^\/\ ,, Juan Burwell | __| ||
( {=@=====[=] Amherst College | _| \\/\// /^\ ||//
\_/\/ '' jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu |___| \/\/ \_/ ||\\
jcoo...@wam.umd.edu (Judith Grunberger) writes:
{Good, well-founded gripes are deleted - I can offer no further
elaboration on those points. Included here are only what I can
offer expanations/excuses for. I still agree with the gripes,
however}
>1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
>imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how do
>you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught in
>the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.
Yes, they would be caught in a loop. But that's an easy rule to follow,
based on all of the standard rules governing actions and capacity.
Aside:
You can reduce a vampire's capacity to zero without using the Sabbat -
Have a caitiff (with a skill card) do a clan impersonation to become
a member of a Camarilla clan. Then vote to make him a Justicar. Then
have him lose the skill card (to the Mage or to Quietus) and have a
IC member strip him of his title (and his last remaining blood capacity).
He is now at zero, excess blood drains off, and he hunts each turn.
>3. What if you don't have a retainer or ally in play? Can you still bring
>out a War Ghoul?>War Ghoul, 3 pool Tzimisce ally with 5 life. 4 hand damage, 0 bleed.
>When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control. She can
>attack any vampire as a (D) action. She may prevent 1 damage each round.
>Tap and burn War Ghoul to burn any location; you cannot use this ability
>during combat.
The War Ghould would be in play, and would be burned itself if you had
no other to sacrifice.
>5. I think this vampire is glaringly overpowered. For four pool, you not
>only gain a vampire with POT CEL for, which I would pay 4 pool for any
>day, but you also burn another Methuselah's vampire. The only drawback is
>that someone might burn *your* Jimmy Dunn. Haven't we already established
>with Camille/Raven that this kind of dynamic (more likely to self-contest)
>is a silly one?>Jimmy Dunn, 4 Capacity, POT CEL for Pander
>Jimmy Dunn cannot be contested. If a second Jimmy comes into play, burn
>the first Jimmy in play instead of contesting him.
This isn't a special ability so much as a restriction. Someone
has to bring him out first. That person pays a penalty (the threat
of someone else bringing Jimmy out). The second person will only
have gained by having someone else's strong, cheap vampire burned
(possibly after having been used somewhat). This "power" is actually
just a restatement of Jimmy's weakness - anemly that you can't depend
on him sticking around.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I don't suffer from insanity.
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | I enjoy every minute of it.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes:
>jcoo...@wam.umd.edu (Judith Grunberger) writes:
>{Good, well-founded gripes are deleted - I can offer no further
>elaboration on those points. Included here are only what I can
>offer expanations/excuses for. I still agree with the gripes,
>however}>>1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
>>imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how do
>>you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught in
>>the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.>Yes, they would be caught in a loop. But that's an easy rule to follow,
>based on all of the standard rules governing actions and capacity.
Ooops, my mistake. They don't loop - in Vampire: the Eternal Struggle,
vampires cannot hunt at capacity, so a vampire with zero capacity
would always be at capacity and couldn't hunt. But would also be empty
and therefore unable to hunt. He's stuck, and can take no actions
(although he can still block and/or play reaction cards)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Judith Grunberger wrote:
>
> 1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
> imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how do
> you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught in
> the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.
>
Wouldn't a vampire whose capacity is at zero meet the corruption
requirement of having "equal to or greater than his capacity" of
corruption counters on him? I guess someone could corrupt and take
control of this perpetually hunting vampire. ;)
Robert
......................................................................
:The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings:
:and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. :
: :
:Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com:
:....................................................................:
:cigars * v:tes * car rallies * scotch * sega rally champion * spoon :
:....................................................................:
Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> wrote in article
<327782...@studio.disney.com>...
> Judith Grunberger wrote:
> >
> > 1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
> > imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how
do
> > you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught
in
> > the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.
> >
>
> Wouldn't a vampire whose capacity is at zero meet the corruption
> requirement of having "equal to or greater than his capacity" of
> corruption counters on him? I guess someone could corrupt and take
> control of this perpetually hunting vampire. ;)
>
> Robert
Uh...ya, but who in there right mind would want to take control of a
perpetually hunting vampire? Just wondering...
Steve Bucy
Speaking of which, what about that person who can put counters on
locations and they get burned when they have counters equal to their
cost? Does that mean that as soon as she comes out, places like the
Rack get immediately burned, or should there have been an "at least 1
counter" clause?
James
--
+-------------------+ Cornell University
| James Hamblin | Senior Math/CS Major
| je...@cornell.edu | TA, CS 212
+-------------------+ Geek
[ quoted text not captured ]
Because he could then have the Mind of a Child removed by a D action,
or have a skill card played upon him perhaps?
> Steve Bucy
Ritaxis
cj...@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Moxy Fruvous) writes:
>: You can reduce a vampire's capacity to zero without using the Sabbat ->: Have a caitiff (with a skill card) do a clan impersonation to become
>: a member of a Camarilla clan. Then vote to make him a Justicar. Then
>: have him lose the skill card (to the Mage or to Quietus) and have a
>: IC member strip him of his title (and his last remaining blood capacity).>I hate to point this out, but the DS card that lets an IC
>member do this specifically says that a vamipre's capacity
>cannot go below ONE, not ZERO. How could WotC possibly see
>this problem a year and a half ago, keep it from cropping up,
>and then FORGET what they've LEARNED?!?
Oops - thanks for pointing that out.
It gets even worse, though - if you lose the title and *then* lose the skill
card, you have a zero capacity. (And if, as you pointed out, you lose the
skill card and then the title, you have a one capacity).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Steven Bucy (tb...@lainet.com) wrote:
: Uh...ya, but who in there right mind would want to take control of a
: perpetually hunting vampire? Just wondering...
All depends if I have that Serpentis master in my hand, and a hunting ground
ready. :)
Kevin
--
Kevin Donnelly-----------------------------------------------------
Protector of Damsels in Distress, Lover of Ladies Fair, Tech Student
"Never tell me the odds!" -- Han Solo
gt2...@prism.gatech.edu vap...@prism.gatech.edu
Judith Grunberger wrote:
>
> 1. How can you reduce a vampire's capacity to zero? Both of these cards
> imply that you can reduce capacity to zero, but not below. Tell me, how do
> you work with a zero capacity vampire? It seems that it would be caught in
> the loop of hunting/no gain/hunting/no gain.
Wait a minute... if memory serves (not always a foregone conclusion)
then not so long ago one Peter Bakija posted a question regarding
hunting at capacity, and it was established that you absolutely,
positively can't. But if you have a vampire at 0 blood, it must hunt
immediately before you may take other actions (except hunting with
other vampires at zero). If the vampire is at zero capacity, what
happens? It must hunt, but can't. Sounds even worde than being stuck
in a loop. At least that can resolve.
--
Steve "I Bled Someone for 14 Pool in One Turn Because of a
Misdirection" Wampler, creator of the "Spend 29 Pool on Vampires and
Get Bled for One and Die™" deck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indestinguishable from magic.
-Clarke's Law
: You can reduce a vampire's capacity to zero without using the Sabbat -
: Have a caitiff (with a skill card) do a clan impersonation to become
: a member of a Camarilla clan. Then vote to make him a Justicar. Then
: have him lose the skill card (to the Mage or to Quietus) and have a
: IC member strip him of his title (and his last remaining blood capacity).
I hate to point this out, but the DS card that lets an IC
member do this specifically says that a vamipre's capacity
cannot go below ONE, not ZERO. How could WotC possibly see
this problem a year and a half ago, keep it from cropping up,
and then FORGET what they've LEARNED?!?
Chris
--
"You can either take action, or you can hang back and hope for a miracle.
Miracles are great, but they are so unpredictable.
-- Peter Drucker
In article <554bnb$8...@tom.amherst.edu>,
jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Ewok) wrote:
>Judith Grunberger thoughtfully stated:
>: 5. I think this vampire is glaringly overpowered. For four
pool, you not
>: only gain a vampire with POT CEL for, which I would pay 4 pool
for any
>: day, but you also burn another Methuselah's vampire. The only
drawback is
>: that someone might burn *your* Jimmy Dunn. Haven't we already
established
>: with Camille/Raven that this kind of dynamic (more likely to
self-contest)
>: is a silly one?
>
>: Jimmy Dunn, 4 Capacity, POT CEL for Pander
>: Jimmy Dunn cannot be contested. If a second Jimmy comes into
play, burn
>: the first Jimmy in play instead of contesting him.
>>I happen to think he might be one of the most interesting cards
in the
>expansion to play with. But you're right.. he will be in a lot
of
>crypts.
> -Juan
And that will undoubtedly limit his effectiveness as no one will
want to get him out first. I for one wouldn't put him in as it
would be a gamble whether you kept him or not!
LOS
In a previous article, je...@cornell.edu (James Hamblin) says:
>Speaking of which, what about that person who can put counters on
>locations and they get burned when they have counters equal to their
>cost? Does that mean that as soon as she comes out, places like the
>Rack get immediately burned, or should there have been an "at least 1
>counter" clause?
>
Hi James! I believe I saw the vampire you're referring to today (Dave
had her, I think), and what she says is that she may take (D) actions to
put counters on people's locations, and they're burned, etc, etc. One
counter will do it for a 0-cost location like the Rack, but she doesn't
just do "poof, gone", she has to take actions to place the counters.
Looking forward to our sabbat shipment,
(got one of those spiff new Immortal Grapples already, heh heh)
Josh
--
inet: jt...@cornell.edu |this address works.
>> Wouldn't a vampire whose capacity is at zero meet the corruption
>> requirement of having "equal to or greater than his capacity" of
>> corruption counters on him? I guess someone could corrupt and take
>> control of this perpetually hunting vampire. ;)>>Uh...ya, but who in there right mind would want to take control of a
>perpetually hunting vampire? Just wondering...
Erm, let me think. Some one with a skill card in hand, perhaps?
> Lord of Shadows wrote:
> And that will undoubtedly limit his effectiveness as no one will
> want to get him out first. I for one wouldn't put him in as it
> would be a gamble whether you kept him or not!
I disagree. To a Brujah deck, Jimmy is invaluable. To no other
deck (Except, perhaps, Pot For combat) is he worth as much.
So the only time you will ever have a problem with Jimmy being
contested, and automatically losing him, is when you are playing
a Brujah deck, and your opponent also has a Brujah deck and has
a copy of Jimmy Dunn and has Jimmy Dunn in his top four (six)
vampires. So what's the problem with him coming out first?
By the time he burns, if he burns at all, he's probably
killed somebody else's vampire-if not two. There is no gamble.
I'm no math major (or comp. sci. major) so I couldn't give you
statistics, but the likelihood of Jimmy burning on you is pretty
low.
Yet I really like all the other Panders, especially Lena
Rowe and Christine Boscacci.
-Nathan Harada
Lord of Shadows wrote:
> And that will undoubtedly limit his effectiveness as no one will
> want to get him out first. I for one wouldn't put him in as it
> would be a gamble whether you kept him or not!> LOS
Yeah, but look at his abilities! He has POT and CEL. That makes him a
fighting machine! If I get him out and use him for rushing, then I
don't care if he gets contested in the next couple of turns as I am
likely to get my money's worth. I am also curious to know if I can
bring out the second Dunn if I brought out the first. If so, then I can
recycle him. Get one out, use him for all he's worth, and then bring
out another one. Hmm...
Just my .02.
Ray Babbitt
RBab...@Novell.COM
Standard Disclaimer