[Question] Catatonic Fear and Target Vitals

Hi, Can I play Target Vitals with Catatonic Fear? And with Oubliette? Thanks, Felipe.

felipechewbacca wrote: > Can I play Target Vitals with Catatonic Fear? Yes. Google: "Vitals Catatonic author:LSJ" > And with Oubliette? Yes, but it won't do anything, since Oubliette does no damage (so none will be "successfully inflicted", as Target Vitals requires).

On Feb 25, 7:27 pm, felipechewbacca <felipechewba...@gmail.com> wrote: Incidentally, you can play the Target Cards with any strike, but they only add damage/take effect if you actually inflict damage. > Can I play Target Vitals with Catatonic Fear? Yes, it will do the additional damage > And with Oubliette? If you are askind does it do additiional damage when you play Target Vitals with Oubliette , then No, Oubliette doesn't do damage Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

[ quoted text not captured ] So that means Target Vitals does nothing with Steal Blood cards (theft of vitae). Side question: How does Target Head work with steal blood cards? Steal blood strike cards "damage" happens first... but then +2 is added on later?

On Feb 26, 5:23 pm, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Since stealing blood isn't actually damage (you cannot go to torpor from a theft if vitae) nothing will happen. You will just steal the amount of blood as indicate on the card and you have flushed a target vitals without effect.

PaulW...@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 26, 5:23 pm, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> >> Side question: How does Target Head work with steal blood cards? >> Steal blood strike cards "damage" happens first... but then +2 is >> added on later? > > Since stealing blood isn't actually damage (you cannot go to torpor > from a theft if vitae) nothing will happen. You will just steal the > amount of blood as indicate on the card and you have flushed a target > vitals without effect. While that's a good answer for Target Vitals on steal blood strikes, the point of Target Head ("The strike does +2 damage") with steal blood strikes is more direct: adding damage to a strike that doesn't deal damage has no effect. Lucky Blow + Rowan Ring = go to torpor (no damage) Target Head + Theft of Vitae superior = steal 2 blood (no damage)

On Feb 26, 1:43 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] So if i'm preventing I only have to prevent the strike damage to zero, then the target Head as no effect. Likewise if I am making a strike for zero damage (hand str for 0, blood rage against weapon, inferior Mayaparisatya). Hmmm... this leads to another question. Winged second plus target cards. Winged Second states "In that combat, this minion may make a hand or melee weapon strike..." So that means I can play 2 Aim cards, since two different minions are fighting at the same time?

adam....@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 26, 1:43 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> PaulWigg...@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Feb 26, 5:23 pm, "adam.hu...@gmail.com" <adam.hu...@gmail.com> >>>> Side question: How does Target Head work with steal blood cards? >>>> Steal blood strike cards "damage" happens first... but then +2 is >>>> added on later? >>> Since stealing blood isn't actually damage (you cannot go to torpor >>> from a theft if vitae) nothing will happen. You will just steal the >>> amount of blood as indicate on the card and you have flushed a target >>> vitals without effect. >> While that's a good answer for Target Vitals on steal blood strikes, the point >> of Target Head ("The strike does +2 damage") with steal blood strikes is more >> direct: adding damage to a strike that doesn't deal damage has no effect. >> >> Lucky Blow + Rowan Ring = go to torpor (no damage) >> Target Head + Theft of Vitae superior = steal 2 blood (no damage) > > So if i'm preventing I only have to prevent the strike damage to zero, > then the target Head as no effect. No (although that would be true for Target Vitals). An uncanceled Target Head always adds two damage to the selected (damage-dealing) strike. Card text (quoted above): "The strike does +2 damage". So Target Head's damage-dealing strike is at +2 damage. Moreover if any of the damage from the strike (the base damage or the damage added by Target Head) is successfully inflicted, then there is an additional effect (" If any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he or she cannot use any additional strikes or presses this round, and you may set the range for the next round.") > Likewise if I am making a strike for zero damage (hand str for 0, > blood rage against weapon, inferior Mayaparisatya). No. A hand strike is a damage-dealing strike. So if a minion has a strength of zero and uses Target Head with his hand strike, that strike will be at 2 damage. Just like that 0-strength minion using Lucky Blow would deal 1 damage. Blood Rage and Mayaparisatya each will thwart the additional damage (and the dependent effect), sure, but that's not quite the same thing as saying Target Head has no effect. > Hmmm... this leads to another question. Winged second plus target > cards. > Winged Second states "In that combat, this minion may make a hand or > melee weapon strike..." > > So that means I can play 2 Aim cards, since two different minions are > fighting at the same time? No. The Winged Second cannot play aim cards.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:24:45 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Hmmm... this leads to another question. Winged second plus target >> cards. >> Winged Second states "In that combat, this minion may make a hand or >> melee weapon strike..." >> >> So that means I can play 2 Aim cards, since two different minions are >> fighting at the same time? > > No. The Winged Second cannot play aim cards. Why not? Both "play when choosing a strike" and a "minion may play only one aim each strike" seem to be met... Target Vitals [LotN:U] Cardtype: Combat Aim. Play when choosing a strike. If any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he or she takes an additional 2 damage from this strike, and he or she cannot press this round. The opposing minion may discard two combat cards [COMBAT] to cancel this card. A minion may play only one aim each strike. -- Regards, Daneel

In message <opt7b70u...@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> writes: >On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:24:45 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >>> Hmmm... this leads to another question. Winged second plus target >>> cards. >>> Winged Second states "In that combat, this minion may make a hand or >>> melee weapon strike..." >>> >>> So that means I can play 2 Aim cards, since two different minions are >>> fighting at the same time? >> >> No. The Winged Second cannot play aim cards. > >Why not? Both "play when choosing a strike" and a "minion may play only >one aim each strike" seem to be met... The Winged Second isn't in combat. Combat cards can only be played by combatants. The Winged Second can play a strike card by explicit text on WS; it says nothing about aim cards or, similarly, Ammo cards. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:03:20 +0000, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <opt7b70u...@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> > writes: >> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:24:45 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> >>>> Hmmm... this leads to another question. Winged second plus target >>>> cards. >>>> Winged Second states "In that combat, this minion may make a hand or >>>> melee weapon strike..." >>>> >>>> So that means I can play 2 Aim cards, since two different minions are >>>> fighting at the same time? >>> >>> No. The Winged Second cannot play aim cards. >> >> Why not? Both "play when choosing a strike" and a "minion may play only >> one aim each strike" seem to be met... > > The Winged Second isn't in combat. Combat cards can only be played by > combatants. > > The Winged Second can play a strike card by explicit text on WS; it says > nothing about aim cards or, similarly, Ammo cards. Good point. It would be intuitive to me that if you can use a strike you can also use any other effect that modifies a strike. Parallel probably the wake-type cards - like how you can use them anytime you can use a reaction effect. I'd expect the same logic here. There is a specific counter-example coming into my mind, though, regarding combat and damage prevention, specifically. -- Regards, Daneel