the card that Quietus needs

Paralyse Combat 1 blood quietus: Strike: Combat Ends QUIETUS: only usable at long range before strikes are dealt. Opposing minion can not play any strike cards this round.

[ quoted text not captured ] A figment of your imagination, or a spoiler ? Nice big card anyway. -- Orpheus ---------------- Top of Ban / Fix List : PTO, Champion, Memories of Mortality.

On Sep 14, 6:49 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > > Paralyse > > Combat > > 1 blood > > quietus: Strike: Combat Ends > > QUIETUS: only usable at long range before strikes are dealt. Opposing > > minion can not play any strike cards this round. I don't think Assamites really need a S:CE effect, but I realize the superior effect is what you really were suggesting they needed. That effect is probably a bit too good since you can save it until you know you're at long range as opposed to Thoughts Betrayed which you have to blow pre-range, giving your opponent a chance to use manuevers to get away. Despite the good I see in this card, I still wouldn't "want" it for the clan since it would render the close-range options of the clan nearly obsolete and I think there are better options to choose: 1. Give the Assamites a "First-est Strike" card or better yet change the First Strike rule to make it an actual First Strike. I never understood why S:CE and Dodge beat something called FIRST strike anyways. It's in-theme for a clan of assassins and with the prevalence of prevent options I don't see it being overwhelming. 2. Continue along the "blood manipulation" theme that the clan already has going and make more pre-emptive effects like Wave of Lethargy/Thin Blood or even Chiram's Hold (but playable while you are the acting minion) so strikes get too expensive to play. Card- intensive I know, but I do like the idea of it more than simply a card saying "you can't play your cards". I wish I could go back and redesign the clan from the start. I would have made the Assamites generally combat-effective (which they are more or less now), but made them truely fearsome when facing a minion they have a Contract on. The Contract theme just feels very underdeveloped. We have 5 cards that grant Contract status, but only 3 that benefit in some way from being in a combat with a contracted minion. There is so much more that could be done here to make Contract Rush the preferred Assamite combat option as their theme would suggest. For example, give the Assamites "First-est Strike" only in combat with a contracted minon. This prevents any combat powers from getting too strong since the Contract is the lynchpin and can always be SR'd, blocked, or even Violation of Trust if you really want to play anti-Assamite tech. I'm still toying with alot of the new options provided to the Assamites in recent sets, but I have yet to see any card or combo that really is unique to the clan that would give them the added boost they need to be truely competitive. Maybe the upcoming set will provide that, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Aramis wrote: > I never > understood why S:CE and Dodge beat something called FIRST strike > anyways. See http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fb99c0eac8bdb43c and the surrounding articles.

On Sep 14, 10:48 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Aramis wrote: > > I never > > understood why S:CE and Dodge beat something called FIRST strike > > anyways. > > Seehttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fb99... > and the surrounding articles. "Understand" was a poor word choice. I understand the rules as they are applied just fine. I just disagree with them, or perhaps I disagree that an effect called *first* strike should have been put in the game when it really was never *first*.

[ quoted text not captured ] The choice of words was fine. The URL above goes to a post that addresses that.

On Sep 14, 10:15 am, Aramis <david.buer...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm still toying with alot of the new options provided to the > Assamites in recent sets, but I have yet to see any card or combo that > really is unique to the clan that would give them the added boost they > need to be truely competitive. Maybe the upcoming set will provide > that, so we'll just have to wait and see. I still think Khabar: Glory is a strong bit of tech. It's a subtle effect, but if you commit to it (at least 4, probably 6 and up) it lets you plow forward, and really effects the "rush backwards until you die" syndrome. But to fully appreciate it, you have to be willing to let your pool drop lower than you might be inclined to, while resisting the urge to annihilate backwards. It's no "I win", it's no RtI, or anything like that. But I do think it qualifies as "very strong." -- David Cherryholmes

[ quoted text not captured ] I read it. I understand that Dodge is supposed to negate a strike's effects regardless of "speed". I also read the part about how minimal effort/speed is needed to dodge an attack in realistic terms and that makes a certain amount of sense. I don't dispute that "Dodge Beats First Strike" is a reasonable position from the original rules set of Jyhad. However I think "First Strike Beats Dodge" is an equally reasonable position and from my conceptualization of what "First Strike" means, it is preferrable. Now I grant that given the choice between two reasonable interpretations, the precedent should stand to avoid unnecessary change and promote stability in the rules. I simply disagree with the original decision and would lobby for its reversal because it makes more sense to me to have First Strike mean just that. New players I'm sure don't catch this distinction in the rules and are understandbly surprised that the cards don't mean what they say. I'm a veteran player and I still, despite knowing the truth and re-reading the explanations, don't get it 100%.

[ quoted text not captured ] That's a good summary of that thread, yes. > I simply > disagree with the original decision and would lobby for its reversal > because it makes more sense to me to have First Strike mean just > that. It is just that. If it's just a nomenclature issue, assume that the rules define Dodge to mean "Dodge with First Strike" and similarly for S:CE. But, really, the nomenclature works as-is, if you paint it right: There are two windows in strike resolution: normal strike window and the strike window that occurs before that one ("first"). Those are for the aggressive strikes. In addition, dodge always protects the dodger (it doesn't have its own window, per se). And S:CE ends combat before strike resolution (that is, before moving to the strike resolution windows of the aggressive strikes). > New players I'm sure don't catch this distinction in the rules > and are understandbly surprised that the cards don't mean what they > say. I'm a veteran player and I still, despite knowing the truth and > re-reading the explanations, don't get it 100%. New players who read the rules are pretty hard pressed to come up with any non-official "distinction" on the question of First Strike vs. Dodge. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_4_5 New players who don't read the rules have bigger worries than First Strike.

In message <1189787859....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Aramis <david....@gmail.com> writes: >I just disagree with them, or perhaps I >disagree that an effect called *first* strike should have been put in >the game when it really was never *first*. It's likely that the term was borrowed from Magic. As has been described in some of the writing about the creation of V:TES, they initially thought to strike a path away from Magic, but later returned to it as a guiding template. Why reinvent the wheel? First Strike was in the Alpha set of Magic[0] i.e. the first one. So it's likely that they stole the term from Magic and didn't really care whether it beat *everything*, because it beat the normal damage. [0] http://www.donsmagicandsundry.com/resources/magic-abilities.php#FirstStrike -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Truth to be told Quietus need such card Blood Weakness 0 blood Combat Card qui: cancel card that requires discipline. if it is strike card opposing minion can choose another strike. opposing minion can cancel this card by burning 2 blood QUI: as above, but must burn 4 blood to cancel this card. general quietus theme is to prevent other vampires from using disciplines - this card suits theme perfectly :D

[ quoted text not captured ] That would be sweet, but make it 1 and 2 respectively, and 2 and 4 only for S:CE strikes....

[ quoted text not captured ] why ? it would be pointless if it will be 1 and 2 - it is opposing choice to burn blood afterall - burn 2 blood or cancel IG - well - burn 2 blood. burn 2 blood or play majesty - play another majesty. it should be strong - maybe 2/3 blood but 1/2 will wallpaperise it - jones simply cancel strike - opposing minion have no choice. this card give opposing minion choice to cancel it - it is costly - right - but it should be

> Blood Weakness > 0 blood > Combat Card > qui: cancel card that requires discipline. if it is strike card > opposing minion can choose another strike. opposing minion can cancel > this card by burning 2 blood > QUI: as above, but must burn 4 blood to cancel this card. Better (IMO) would be. Blood Weakness (needs another name as it is too close to Blood Weakens, but meh) Combat Only useable against a younger vampire. Only 1 Blood Weakness may be played in a round. qui: Cancel a combat card that requires a discipline as it is played by the opposing vampire. QUI: As above but the opposing vampire may be the same age or older. --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com

[ quoted text not captured ] or The cost of the canceled card is not paid. The opposing minion gets a new opportunity to declare a strike. Blood Weakness Combat Only useable against a younger vampire or ally. Only 1 Blood Weakness may be played in a round. qui: Cancel a combat card that requires a discipline as it is played by the opposing minion.The cost of the canceled card is not paid. The opposing minion gets a new opportunity to declare a strike if strike card was canceled. QUI: As above but the opposing vampire may be the same age or older. TBH i dont like "once each round" much ... either way it is pretty pointless at inferior quietus (if you have inf quietus you have low cap anyway. so maybe Blood Weakness Combat Only 1 Blood Weakness at superior may be played in a round. qui: Opposing minion burn 1 blood after he succesfuly play card thet requires discipline. QUI: Cancel a combat card that requires a discipline as it is played by the opposing minion.The cost of the canceled card is not paid. The opposing minion gets a new opportunity to declare a strike if strike card was canceled.

[ quoted text not captured ] The Blood Weakness idea is mighty close to The Jonse. That could be a sample template for the effect. However like all good cancel combat card abilities, there is no limit (in general) to playing that combat card again. Whereas not letting them play strike cards at all ignores any chance of multiple copies. Obviously I would think the second is more powerful than the first. Of course my personal experience is that Chiram's Hold is a great card to advance this kind of tech. My favourite is The Jones + Chiram's Hold but hey :) Q

[ quoted text not captured ] this card let them choose another strike after this one. it is simliar to the jones but more powerful (as quietus should be more powerful in combat than serpentis) still only one card can be canceled and opposing minion can play another copy of any card(bar ig, carrion crows and other once each combat card) so it is not broken. i like the second blood weakness incarnation.