So I came up with a really bad/fringe disincentive to anyone
diablerizing my Red List vampires, but I need to know if it legal. Here
is the situation:
I play Trophy: Retainers as a Master Phase action. I have out a Red
List vampire that gets burned in combat or as a someone else's (D)
action or any way that earns the opposing vampire a trophy. I move my
Trophy: Retainers to that vampire.
The trophy receiving vampire cannot refuse a trophy that is in play,
correct?
Now I still control Trophy: Retainers, because it is a Master Card, so
during my untap phase, I can search my library or hand for a retainer
and "force" the vampire with Trophy: Retainers to employ it, correct?
I figure I can make their vampire waste blood by employing a Marijava
Ghoul (2 blood) when the vampire doesn't have presence or a Ghoul
Retainer (2 pool) to cause pool damage even though the Ghoul Retainer
gives them some benefit. Yeah, its a bad idea, but maybe there are
other retainers that I have forgotten about that are worth using.
Later,
~Rehlow
Relevant Card Text below:
Trophy: Retainers
Master. Trophy.
During your untap phase, if this card is on a vampire, you may search
your library (shuffle afterward) or hand for a retainer. This vampire
employs that retainer (he or she must meet the requirements, if any).
Pay the cost as normal. This is not an action.
"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> wrote in message
news:1116011799....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So I came up with a really bad/fringe disincentive to anyone
> diablerizing my Red List vampires, but I need to know if it legal. Here
> is the situation:
>
> I play Trophy: Retainers as a Master Phase action. I have out a Red
> List vampire that gets burned in combat or as a someone else's (D)
> action or any way that earns the opposing vampire a trophy. I move my
> Trophy: Retainers to that vampire.
>
> The trophy receiving vampire cannot refuse a trophy that is in play,
> correct?
>
> Now I still control Trophy: Retainers, because it is a Master Card, so
> during my untap phase, I can search my library or hand for a retainer
> and "force" the vampire with Trophy: Retainers to employ it, correct?
>
> I figure I can make their vampire waste blood by employing a Marijava
> Ghoul (2 blood) when the vampire doesn't have presence or a Ghoul
> Retainer (2 pool) to cause pool damage even though the Ghoul Retainer
> gives them some benefit. Yeah, its a bad idea, but maybe there are
> other retainers that I have forgotten about that are worth using.
Well, clearly the way the card is written, any pool costs would come
out of _your_ pool - not the owner of vampire.
I don't know about blood costs. If there's any rule about the
controller of a master card sitting on a minion he does not own
using it and "paying" its cost out of that minion's blood, I've
haven't heard of it.
> Relevant Card Text below:
>
> Trophy: Retainers
>
> Master. Trophy.
>
> During your untap phase, if this card is on a vampire, you may search
> your library (shuffle afterward) or hand for a retainer. This vampire
> employs that retainer (he or she must meet the requirements, if any).
> Pay the cost as normal. This is not an action.
Fred
Frederick Scott wrote:
> >
> > I figure I can make their vampire waste blood by employing a
Marijava
> > Ghoul (2 blood) when the vampire doesn't have presence or a Ghoul
> > Retainer (2 pool) to cause pool damage even though the Ghoul
Retainer
> > gives them some benefit. Yeah, its a bad idea, but maybe there are
> > other retainers that I have forgotten about that are worth using.
>
> Well, clearly the way the card is written, any pool costs would come
> out of _your_ pool - not the owner of vampire.
>
Yeah, you'd definitely have to pay the pool cost yourself, but there
doesn't seem to be anything preventing you from draining their vamp's
blood by giving him Marijava Ghouls.
This brings up another question about Trophy: Retainers and how it
relates to Charnas the Imp. If you have a Tremere with T:R on it, can
you play Charnas' on other peoples' vampires without taking an action?
What if someone else controls a Tremere with your T:R on it. I assume
that you can play Charnas on the Tremere in question, since the new
text seems to indicate that you can put it on the employing minion if
you want (didn't it used to always go on "another" vampire, as a (D)
action?).
OK. What shall be done to correct this?
1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the appropriate
references.
2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the minion.
Opinions?
--
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ wrote:
> OK. What shall be done to correct this?
>
> 1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the
appropriate
> references.
>
> 2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the
minion.
>
> Opinions?
>
How about errata Trophy: Retainers to say that the controller of the
vampire pays all costs, so we can really abuse it... ;)
Umm, actually, changing the trophy rule to say that when you move a
trophy to a vmapire that vampire's controller gains control of the
trophy (which I think is what you're saying in #2 above) is probably a
good idea and the most elegant solution.
LSJ wrote:
> OK. What shall be done to correct this?
>
> 1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the
appropriate
> references.
>
> 2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the
minion.
>
> Opinions?
Well, 1 is fun for the limited abuse, but 2 just makes more sense.
"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:D0ahe.211$M36...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> OK. What shall be done to correct this?
>
> 1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the appropriate
> references.
>
> 2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the minion.
The second option seems simpler all around. I can't think of any merit to
the first except to specifically allow the kind of funky stuff Rehlow is
trying to pull off.
Fred
On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:08:14 -0700, "Frederick Scott"
<nos...@no.spam.dot.com> scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
i like number 2 too, out of the two options, because i'd prefer
changing rules rather than card texts.
but in the mean time the correct play during my untap phase is i put
my retainer on his minion and his minion pays and blood cost?
(hmm...give them JS and Tasha and call justicar retribution..)
salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:39:31 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:
> OK. What shall be done to correct this?
>
> 1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the
> appropriate
> references.
>
> 2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the
> minion.
>
> Opinions?
Since there are some master cards already that need to be given to
other Meths, I see no trouble with either. The question is, do we
want Trophies to stay in the game after the benefactor is ousted?
I lean towards #1 if the references on who may use the trophy also
change (e.g. the controller of the minion with the Trophy does
everything, including searching for a retainer, paying any costs,
etc.). But I also see merit in #2.
--
Bye,
Daneel
In message <D0ahe.211$M36...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ
<vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes:
>2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the minion.
This seems more useful, in general, since you won't lose the Trophy when
the giving Methuselah is ousted.
This has the fringe benefit of making Trophies potentially ever-so-
slightly stronger, as well as resolving the current situation.
--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote
> OK. What shall be done to correct this?
>
> 1) Errata (a subset of) the trophies to replace "you" with the appropriate
> references.
>
> 2) Errata the trophy rule to make control of the trophy go with the
minion.
>
> Opinions?
(2) seems to fit the game idea better. It is suposed to be a reward, making
it a poison pill negates the somewhat weak effect of smashing red-listees.
(as much we loves a double cross)
It's also simple without having to get rules-lawyer ish.
Is anyone playing Bribes on this ref?