[LSJ] Obedience+Freak drive vs Change of target+cat's guidance

Can't find a clear answer to these Q: A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? I think the answer is yes on both. Also there is an old ruling that if a vampire playes a wake and blocks and the acting minion playes change of target, the blocking vampire can't play cat's guidance as the action is ended. I think that both obedience and change of target use aproximately the same wording regarding ending the action, which would either allow both freak drive and cat's guidance or disallow them both. LSJ? Card texts: Freak Drive [Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, CE:U/PV2, Anarchs:PG] Cardtype: Action Modifier Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Fortitude [for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving the action). Untap this vampire. [FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after combat, if any). Obedience [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PV, CE:U] Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Dominate Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. [dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same action this turn. [DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. Cats' Guidance [Jyhad:C, VTES:C, Sabbat:C, SW:C/PT3, FN:PR4, CE:C/PN3, Anarchs:PG3, BH:PN3] Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Animalism [ani] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire. [ANI] +1 intercept. Change of Target [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U, Anarchs:PAB2] Cardtype: Action Modifier Only usable when this acting minion is blocked (play before combat, if any). Untap the acting minion, do not tap the blocking minion, and end the current action (it is not successful). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn. /henrik isaksson

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:06:08 +0200, "henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote: >Can't find a clear answer to these Q: >A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? >A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? >I think the answer is yes on both. There are 3 questions that you have posed. The answer is yes on all three. LSJ 2001-11-29 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C069D20.B4D2AA3%40white-wolf.com >Also there is an old ruling that if a vampire playes a wake and blocks and >the acting minion playes change of target, the blocking vampire can't play >cat's guidance as the action is ended. Change of Target ends the action immediately. You cannot play reaction cards in the absence of an action, therefore you cannot play Cat's Guidance after a Change of Target. LSJ 1998-11-10 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3648391D.41C6%40wizards.com >I think that both obedience and change of target use aproximately the same >wording regarding ending the action, which would either allow both freak >drive and cat's guidance or disallow them both. LSJ? Scott has ruled differently on them in the past. Freak Drive is played when the action ends, by card text. Cat's Guidance is played when blocking, by card text. It is my opinion that neither should be playable after their appropriate hoser has been played, but Scott has ruled differently, as linked above. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:06:08 +0200, "henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote: >Can't find a clear answer to these Q: >A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? >A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? >I think the answer is yes on both. There are 3 questions that you have posed. The answer is yes on all three. LSJ 2001-11-29 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C069D20.B4D2AA3%40white-wolf.com >Also there is an old ruling that if a vampire playes a wake and blocks and >the acting minion playes change of target, the blocking vampire can't play >cat's guidance as the action is ended. Change of Target ends the action immediately. You cannot play reaction cards in the absence of an action, therefore you cannot play Cat's Guidance after a Change of Target. LSJ 1998-11-10 http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3648391D.41C6%40wizards.com >I think that both obedience and change of target use aproximately the same >wording regarding ending the action, which would either allow both freak >drive and cat's guidance or disallow them both. LSJ? Scott has ruled differently on them in the past. [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra wrote: > On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:06:08 +0200, "henrik isaksson" >>Can't find a clear answer to these Q: >>A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? >>A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? > >>I think the answer is yes on both. > > There are 3 questions that you have posed. The answer is yes on all > three. > > LSJ 2001-11-29 > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C069D20.B4D2AA3%40white-wolf.com Actually, card text has changed since then. Obedience ends the action now (rather than simply canceling the combat). No action modifiers (like Freak) can be played after the action ends. >>Also there is an old ruling that if a vampire playes a wake and blocks and >>the acting minion playes change of target, the blocking vampire can't play >>cat's guidance as the action is ended. > > Change of Target ends the action immediately. > You cannot play reaction cards in the absence of an action, therefore > you cannot play Cat's Guidance after a Change of Target. > > LSJ 1998-11-10 > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3648391D.41C6%40wizards.com > >>I think that both obedience and change of target use aproximately the same >>wording regarding ending the action, which would either allow both freak >>drive and cat's guidance or disallow them both. LSJ? > > Scott has ruled differently on them in the past. > Freak Drive is played when the action ends, by card text. > Cat's Guidance is played when blocking, by card text. > > It is my opinion that neither should be playable after their > appropriate hoser has been played, but Scott has ruled differently, as > linked above. You are correct, given current card text. The old ruling linked above was based on old card text. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <iSK5d.637011$Gx4.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >The Lasombra wrote: >> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:06:08 +0200, "henrik isaksson" >>>Can't find a clear answer to these Q: >>>A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? >>>A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? >> >>>I think the answer is yes on both. >> >> There are 3 questions that you have posed. The answer is yes on all >> three. >> >> LSJ 2001-11-29 >> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C069D20.B4D2AA3%40white-wolf.com > >Actually, card text has changed since then. >Obedience ends the action now (rather than simply canceling the combat). > >No action modifiers (like Freak) can be played after the action ends. I guess that when Obedience ends the action, it is not considered successful. But if B blocks, isn't there a timing window where superior Freak Drive can be played? Kind of like when a Strike: Combat Ends is played, there's a timing window to play Taste, for example. -- charles lechasseur - da...@novideospamtron.ca

"Charles Lechasseur" <da...@novideospamtron.ca> wrote in message news:danov-27090...@192.168.1.4... > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:06:08 +0200, "henrik isaksson" > >>>Can't find a clear answer to these Q: > >>>A rushes B. No block. B playes obedience. Can A play inf freakdrive? Sup? > >>>A rushes B. B block. B play obedience. Can A play sup freak drive? > >Obedience ends the action now (rather than simply canceling the combat). > >No action modifiers (like Freak) can be played after the action ends. > I guess that when Obedience ends the action, it is not considered > successful. Obedience doesn't affect that. If the action was successful (case 1 above), then it was succesful. If it was unsuccessful (case 2), then it was unsuccessful. > But if B blocks, isn't there a timing window where superior > Freak Drive can be played? Kind of like when a Strike: Combat Ends is > played, there's a timing window to play Taste, for example. No. Obedience ends the action. Unlike combat, in which many things can be done as combat is ending to forestall that (or to squeeze in other effects in that window), there is no "as the action is ending" phase -- there's a "after resolution, but still during the action" window that many cards, like Freak Drive, use. But Obedience ends that action earlier than that window -- up near the start of resolution. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu