rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Constructing a Molotov Cocktail at range

10 messages from 4 participants · 07 February 2006 – 08 February 2006
original thread on Google Groups

Fred Scott

Molotov Cocktail Combat Strike: put this card on this minion, it becomes an equipment card: a weapon. Beginning with the next round of this combat, the bearer can strike with this weapon for 2R aggravated damage. Burn this card after use or when combat ends. I can't think of any reason in the rules why it would be legal to arm yourself with a Molotov Cocktail at long range, bizarre as it seems. Apparently, you have to be at close range - although you can ultimately strike _with_ the MC at long range after you've armed yourself with it. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Gad, that's silly! It's as if you need your enemy close by to maybe hold the flashlight or something so you can see to stuff the rag in the bottle of gasoline. WtF? I know cards can be like this, of course. This one just struck me as being a bit over the top.... (grouse, grumble, whine!) Fred

The Lasombra

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:47:33 -0700, "Fred Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: >Molotov Cocktail >Combat >Strike: put this card on this minion, it becomes an equipment card: a weapon. >Beginning with the next round of this combat, the bearer can strike with this >weapon for 2R aggravated damage. Burn this card after use or when combat >ends. >I can't think of any reason in the rules why it would be legal to arm >yourself with a Molotov Cocktail at long range, bizarre as it seems. >Apparently, you have to be at close range - although you can ultimately >strike _with_ the MC at long range after you've armed yourself with it. >Can anyone confirm or deny this? Yes, I can deny it. Strikes that fail to specify R or Ranged can be played at any range. They will simply fail to have any effect on your opponent. As the strike to acquire the Cocktail does not have any effect on your opponent, range is immaterial. Compare to Dodge. Clearly, dodge can be played at every range. >Gad, that's silly! It's as if you need >your enemy close by to maybe hold the flashlight or something so you can >see to stuff the rag in the bottle of gasoline. WtF? Your enemies can be very helpful like that sometimes. >I know cards can be like this, of course. This one just struck me as being >a bit over the top.... (grouse, grumble, whine!) It isn't like that, fortunately. See also: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad entombment range author:"the lasombra" Ignore the results from 'Coma Range author:LSJ', as he is always discussing the effects of the strikes on the opponent, not whether or not the strike can be played. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best online source for information about V:TES. Now also featuring individual card sales and sales of booster and starter box displays.

Fred Scott

"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:et6gu1h2u7uusu5f2...@4ax.com... > On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:47:33 -0700, "Fred Scott" > <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: >>Molotov Cocktail >>Combat >>Strike: put this card on this minion, it becomes an equipment card: a weapon. >>Beginning with the next round of this combat, the bearer can strike with this >>weapon for 2R aggravated damage. Burn this card after use or when combat >>ends. > >>I can't think of any reason in the rules why it would be legal to arm >>yourself with a Molotov Cocktail at long range, bizarre as it seems. >>Apparently, you have to be at close range - although you can ultimately >>strike _with_ the MC at long range after you've armed yourself with it. > >>Can anyone confirm or deny this? > > Yes, I can deny it. Excellent. I hope my conclusion was wrong, but... > Strikes that fail to specify R or Ranged can be played at any range. > They will simply fail to have any effect on your opponent. The wording used in rule 6.4.3 (under the bullet list bullet that begins, "Resolve Strike."): "...Most strikes are effective only at close range. Unless the strike is identified as ranged or does 'R' damage (or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends), it is only effective at close range. Ranged strikes and strikes that do 'R' damage can be used at any range, close or long." I guess I assumed the word "effective", in the context of a strike that equips a minion would mean that the minion was allowed to equip. If the strike were not "effective", it wouldn't be allowed to equip. I guess I didn't really think in terms of equipping being considered a defensive strike because it isn't preventing any offensive strike effects from taking place as dodges and combat ends do. But I suppose that's not strictly defined and obviously, it makes sense. If equipping with the Cocktail qualifies as such, if that's precisely what is meant by this rule, I would think maybe the term "non-offensive strike" would convey the meaning better than "defensive strike". > As the strike to acquire the Cocktail does not have any effect on your > opponent, range is immaterial. Well, OK. I just can't find where that criteria is spelled out in the rules as you're quoting it. > See also: > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > > entombment range author:"the lasombra" > > Ignore the results from 'Coma Range author:LSJ', as he is always > discussing the effects of the strikes on the opponent, not whether or > not the strike can be played. Yes, it can be played, I'm convinced. But what happens, exactly, when it is played at long range? That doesn't seem so clear. Fred

LSJ

Fred Scott wrote: > Yes, it can be played, I'm convinced. But what happens, exactly, when it > is played at long range? That doesn't seem so clear. It is played and put on the striking minion. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Fred Scott

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:VG%Ff.7202$Nv2....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Fred Scott wrote: >> Yes, it can be played, I'm convinced. But what happens, exactly, when it >> is played at long range? That doesn't seem so clear. > > It is played and put on the striking minion. OK, cool. I thought of a follow-up question. I assume, then, that a Strike: Dodge (and, when something like a Telepathic Tracking is played, Strike: Combat Ends) does the same thing as being at long range in the sense that it evades your opponents offensive strike effects (damage, steal blood, effects like Coma, and so forth) but does not prevent other kinds of effects (for instance, equipping with a Molotov Cocktail) from occurring. I guess this is why a Dodge doesn't cancel a Strike: Combat Ends. Correct? Fred

LSJ

Fred Scott wrote: > OK, cool. I thought of a follow-up question. I assume, then, that a Strike: > Dodge (and, when something like a Telepathic Tracking is played, Strike: > Combat Ends) does the same thing as being at long range in the sense that > it evades your opponents offensive strike effects (damage, steal blood, > effects like Coma, and so forth) but does not prevent other kinds of > effects (for instance, equipping with a Molotov Cocktail) from occurring. > I guess this is why a Dodge doesn't cancel a Strike: Combat Ends. > > Correct? It fits, yes. So dodge won't protect the opposing minion from his own Burst of Sunlight, but it will protect the dodger from an "and inflict 1 damage" effect tacked-on to a S:CE (like Catatonic Fear).

James Coupe

In message <Qt6Gf.28967$JT.12803@fed1read06>, Fred Scott <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> writes: >I assume, then, that a Strike: >Dodge (and, when something like a Telepathic Tracking is played, Strike: >Combat Ends) does the same thing as being at long range in the sense that >it evades your opponents offensive strike effects (damage, steal blood, >effects like Coma, and so forth) but does not prevent other kinds of >effects (for instance, equipping with a Molotov Cocktail) from occurring. The effects of a Dodge are explicitly defined in the rulebook: "A dodge strike deals no damage, but it protects the dodging minion and his possessions from the effects of the opposing strike." Since a "Put a card on this striking minion" effect is in no way an effect against the opposing minion or his possessions, a Dodge in no way alters that effect. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe

In message <Qt6Gf.28967$JT.12803@fed1read06>, Fred Scott <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> writes: >OK, cool. I thought of a follow-up question. I assume, then, that a Strike: >Dodge (and, when something like a Telepathic Tracking is played, Strike: >Combat Ends) does the same thing as being at long range in the sense that >it evades your opponents offensive strike effects (damage, steal blood, >effects like Coma, and so forth) but does not prevent other kinds of >effects (for instance, equipping with a Molotov Cocktail) from occurring. >I guess this is why a Dodge doesn't cancel a Strike: Combat Ends. Two follow-ups, my bad. The point about Strike: Combat Ends and Telepathic Tracking is odd. Under that combo, other strikes don't resolve - the round ends, and a new round starts. The strikes are lost. [ quoted text not captured ]

Fred Scott

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:LQERSK$PLR6...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <Qt6Gf.28967$JT.12803@fed1read06>, Fred Scott > <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> writes: >>OK, cool. I thought of a follow-up question. I assume, then, that a Strike: >>Dodge (and, when something like a Telepathic Tracking is played, Strike: >>Combat Ends) does the same thing as being at long range in the sense that >>it evades your opponents offensive strike effects (damage, steal blood, >>effects like Coma, and so forth) but does not prevent other kinds of >>effects (for instance, equipping with a Molotov Cocktail) from occurring. >>I guess this is why a Dodge doesn't cancel a Strike: Combat Ends. > > Two follow-ups, my bad. > > The point about Strike: Combat Ends and Telepathic Tracking is odd. > Under that combo, other strikes don't resolve - the round ends, and a > new round starts. The strikes are lost. If the stike is lost, then the opposing minion would fail to equip with the Molotov Cocktail. So the upshot is, if Methuselah A's minion arms with a Molotov Cocktail in the first round of a combat while his opponent in the combat, Methuselah B, plays Strike: Combat ends for his minion and then Methuselah A plays Telepathic Tracking at superior, then the combat continues but Methuselah A's minion failed to equip and the MC is not placed on it. Methuselah A's minion must start over with another Molotov Cocktail card in the second round. Is that correct? Fred

LSJ

Fred Scott wrote: > "James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message >>The point about Strike: Combat Ends and Telepathic Tracking is odd. >>Under that combo, other strikes don't resolve - the round ends, and a >>new round starts. The strikes are lost. > > If the stike is lost, then the opposing minion would fail to equip with > the Molotov Cocktail. So the upshot is, if Methuselah A's minion arms > with a Molotov Cocktail in the first round of a combat while his opponent > in the combat, Methuselah B, plays Strike: Combat ends for his minion > and then Methuselah A plays Telepathic Tracking at superior, then the > combat continues but Methuselah A's minion failed to equip and the MC > is not placed on it. Methuselah A's minion must start over with another > Molotov Cocktail card in the second round. Is that correct? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]