[deck] POT-cel Seek & Destroy (comments)

Now this is a first. Normally I would play a weenie Potence deck or a Weenie Pot-Obf deck, however those got old really fast. So it was time for something new. Actually never played something like this before, I wonder what the reactions will be. Potence-Celerity Seek and Destroy Crypt: (12 cards) 1 Anvil 1 Amalia 3 Beast, LfoD 1 Caspare Giovanni 1 Dre, LotCD 1 Jacob Bragg 2 Jimmy Dunn 1 Richter 1 Sela Library: (85 cards) Master (13) 2 Blood doll 3 Dreams of the Sphinx 4 Haven Uncovered 2 Minion Tap 2 Potence Minion (72 cards) 7 Blur 7 Bums Rush 4 Decapitate 6 Disarm 2 Fists of Death 8 Flash 10 Immortal Grapple 3 Pushing the Limit 2 Rampage 7 Taste of Vitae 9 Torn Signpost 7 Undead Strenght -- A.A.H. Tim Eijpe V:EKN Prince of Utrecht The Netherlands E-mail: time...@hotmail.com PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise Ancient-The Cainian Chronicles Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

very focused deck what do you do against Aggro damages ?? against obediance?? need so sidestep and some psyché! by the way why 85 cards, could be more focused with 70 cards -- Sylvain Gogel "Tim Eijpe" <t_e...@my-deja.com> a écrit dans le message news: 93ufau$b4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <oAB86.8587$Mb.6...@tengri.easynet.fr>, "Sylvain Gogel" <syl...@cognition.fr> wrote: > very focused deck true. This was the intent. It is supposed to be tight. > what do you do against Aggro damages ?? Absolutely Nothing! It's a chance I gotta take. > against obediance?? What can you do against Obedience at all, except for putting stealth in the deck, and hope they don't have many Second traditions. Stealth will water down the combat. > need so sidestep and some psyché! You mean Sideslip? Which doesn't work as only 4-5 vampires have superior Celerity, among wich the Beast who is tripled. Why Psychy as I have IG? > > by the way why 85 cards, could be more focused with 70 cards Could be, however I do see 6 player games, I'd like to have some staying power. Thanx! Tim [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <93ufau$b4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: <snip> As already said a very focused deck, so I will offer just a few (and maybe marginal suggestions): > Potence-Celerity Seek and Destroy > > Crypt: (12 cards) > 1 Anvil > 1 Amalia > 3 Beast, LfoD > 1 Caspare Giovanni > 1 Dre, LotCD > 1 Jacob Bragg > 2 Jimmy Dunn > 1 Richter > 1 Sela > You have a reasonable amount of rush in the deck, so 3 Beast seem a bit excessive (and risky), because you want to hit hard and fast, and you need many minions to do that. Together with Amelia and Richter you have 5 7-caps... Too many. How about Victor Tolliver and maybe also Volker? The deck is not strictly POT/cel, it has many good Celerity cards, and you might find room to up the number of Potence Masters (take out one Dreams maybe). > Library: (85 cards) > Master (13) > 2 Blood doll > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > 4 Haven Uncovered > 2 Minion Tap > 2 Potence > Minion Tap is okayish for the big guys, but I think Blood Dolls are generally better in this sort of deck. > Minion (72 cards) > 7 Blur > 7 Bums Rush > 4 Decapitate > 6 Disarm > 2 Fists of Death > 8 Flash > 10 Immortal Grapple > 3 Pushing the Limit > 2 Rampage > 7 Taste of Vitae > 9 Torn Signpost > 7 Undead Strenght > Do you see many maneuvers and second round combat in your playgroup? 8 Flash seem a lot to me, maybe some Pursuit (maneuver, add. strike at superior) might go in instead - or some extra rush if you take my advice and cut down the number of Beasts. Regards Skaffen Chantry Elder Of Munich "Han la hodet in til hennes bryst - han horte hennes hjerteslag - folte blodets gang i hennes are - og han kjendte to braendende laeber mot sin nakke - det gav ham en frysning gennem legemet - en frysende vellyst sa han krampakti trykket hende til sig" (E. Munch, "Vampyr") [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <93uuno$blm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, that's true come to think of it. I'll prolly take mout 1 beast and add a Volker..his token votes are usefull too. Might up up the Pot skill cards..maybe not..will try both. > > Library: (85 cards) > > Master (13) > > 2 Blood doll > > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > > 4 Haven Uncovered > > 2 Minion Tap > > 2 Potence > > > > Minion Tap is okayish for the big guys, but I think Blood Dolls are generally > better in this sort of deck. true, still a minion tap or 2 can save my ass..maybe take out 1 DotS and 1 minion tap, adding a Blood Doll and Pot skill. > > > Minion (72 cards) > > 7 Blur > > 7 Bums Rush > > 4 Decapitate > > 6 Disarm > > 2 Fists of Death > > 8 Flash > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > 3 Pushing the Limit > > 2 Rampage > > 7 Taste of Vitae > > 9 Torn Signpost > > 7 Undead Strenght > > > > Do you see many maneuvers and second round combat in your playgroup? 8 Flash > seem a lot to me, maybe some Pursuit (maneuver, add. strike at superior) > might go in instead - or some extra rush if you take my advice and cut down > the number of Beasts. > Most of the time I do not know what too expect. I see some Tremere 2nd round, but also some Brujah/ Toreador gun decks, and worst of all, a new player playing an Assamite deck I build for him. Kinda sucks to be outmanouvered. So that's why the number is that high. Thanx a lot! > Regards > > Skaffen > Chantry Elder Of Munich > > "Han la hodet in til hennes bryst - han horte hennes hjerteslag - folte > blodets gang i hennes are - og han kjendte to braendende laeber mot sin nakke > - det gav ham en frysning gennem legemet - en frysende vellyst sa han > krampakti trykket hende til sig" (E. Munch, "Vampyr") > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ > -- A.A.H. Tim Eijpe V:EKN Prince of Utrecht The Netherlands E-mail: time...@hotmail.com PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise Ancient-The Cainian Chronicles [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <93uv6j$bti$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Now I think of it, I should include 1-2 Fames, the deck looks fine in combat, but how the hell am I going to oust more than 1 player... I just used the template I used for my weenie Potence Rush deck, which can oust due to sheer numbers, but this deck will have out 3-4 vampires at the most in a game..hmmmm. Let's go back to the Drawing Board. [ quoted text not captured ]

<snip> > > > > Most of the time I do not know what too expect. I see some Tremere 2nd > round, but also some Brujah/ Toreador gun decks, and worst of all, a new > player playing an Assamite deck I build for him. Kinda sucks to be > outmanouvered. So that's why the number is that high. > Hmm, this deck should eat all Tremere for lunch. Guns and Assamites, though, might pose a problem. Still I think dual-use cards like Pursuit would be good to avoid handjam if you are not trying to catch Assamites - which might be a serious problem anyway, 'cause even with 8 Flash you will have a hard time keeping up if they rush you. Best bet would be a well-timed Bum's Rush as soon as one of the Silent Killers hits the table. Or just tell that new player that Malkavian stealth bleed is the way to go ;-) About Tory Artillery decks I wouldn’t worry too much - you have enough time to eliminate any threat by pre-emptively killing the vampire before she equips. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Now I think of it, I should include 1-2 Fames, the deck looks fine in > combat, but how the hell am I going to oust more than 1 player... > I just used the template I used for my weenie Potence Rush deck, which > can oust due to sheer numbers, but this deck will have out 3-4 vampires > at the most in a game..hmmmm. Let's go back to the Drawing Board. Fame won't help you too much honestly. Don't be afraid of the hard labour it takes to oust by bleeding one pool at a time. If the deck goes alright you will have a very stable position, and you should be able to afford the time. Include 1 Fame as a prayer card - it might help, for sure, but this card is not the ultimate solution to the problem (See the thread on Fame as a pure stratgey for ousting a while back). Try and work the table, you can always sell a cross-table rush for a nicely spread Conservative Agitation by your grandprey's political deck. [ quoted text not captured ]

Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: > "Sylvain Gogel" <syl...@cognition.fr> wrote: > > against obediance?? > > What can you do against Obedience at all, except for putting stealth > in the deck, and hope they don't have many Second traditions. Stealth > will water down the combat. ? Stealth won't prevent Obedience - Obedience doesn't require a block. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

Tim Eijpe wrote: > > Now this is a first. Normally I would play a weenie Potence deck or a > Weenie Pot-Obf deck, however those got old really fast. So it was time > for something new. Actually never played something like this before, I > wonder what the reactions will be. > > Potence-Celerity Seek and Destroy > > Crypt: (12 cards) > 1 Anvil > 1 Amalia > 3 Beast, LfoD > 1 Caspare Giovanni > 1 Dre, LotCD > 1 Jacob Bragg > 2 Jimmy Dunn > 1 Richter > 1 Sela I would put in a couple Potence-only guys, since your celerity angle seems to be only Blur and Flash. You can still have a pretty successful combat without these cards. Maybe lose a Richter and a Beast for two of Lupo/KoKo/Hugo. > Library: (85 cards) > Master (13) > 2 Blood doll > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > 4 Haven Uncovered > 2 Minion Tap > 2 Potence Since currently your crypt only has two people with pot instead of POT, I would remove both Potence masters. More Blood Dolls; every Taste gains you pool. I prefer the Dolls to the Taps. You're better off having smaller vampires (which you won't need to tap, and which will come out faster). > Minion (72 cards) > 7 Blur > 7 Bums Rush This (plus 2 Rampages) is 13 rush cards. You might want a few more. > 4 Decapitate > 6 Disarm > 2 Fists of Death > 8 Flash > 10 Immortal Grapple > 3 Pushing the Limit How about more Fists of Death instead of these? That works better with Blur. > 2 Rampage > 7 Taste of Vitae > 9 Torn Signpost > 7 Undead Strenght Otherwise, this looks pretty standard. You might want to look through the deck archives for decks by Josh Duffin and myself to compare. James -- James Hamblin ham...@math.wisc.edu "What drives you on can drive you mad. A million lies to sell yourself is all you ever had." -- Garbage

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message news: 93vaba$m2f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > "Sylvain Gogel" <syl...@cognition.fr> wrote: > > > against obediance?? > > > > What can you do against Obedience at all, except for putting stealth > > in the deck, and hope they don't have many Second traditions. Stealth > > will water down the combat. > > ? > Stealth won't prevent Obedience - Obedience doesn't require a block. > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. hi ! we had a problem once with the wording of obedience. My !nosferatu predator had a "Milicent smith" on his side. he played a bum's rush on one of my big cap vampire, then of course added stealth when i wanted to block. Before entering combat, i played "obedience". There is the words "action is blocked" on obedience, although i never was able to succesfully block the action itself. Does the acting minion burn due to "Milicent smith" ?? and what about "Kiss of Ra" and "Milicent smith" ? reyda

In article <93ufau$b4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: > Now this is a first. Normally I would play a weenie Potence deck or a > Weenie Pot-Obf deck, however those got old really fast. So it was time > for something new. Actually never played something like this before, I > wonder what the reactions will be. > > Potence-Celerity Seek and Destroy > > Crypt: (12 cards) > 1 Anvil > 1 Amalia > 3 Beast, LfoD > 1 Caspare Giovanni > 1 Dre, LotCD > 1 Jacob Bragg > 2 Jimmy Dunn > 1 Richter > 1 Sela > > Library: (85 cards) > Master (13) > 2 Blood doll > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx > 4 Haven Uncovered > 2 Minion Tap > 2 Potence I don't think you need the potence masters. You're going to go through cards pretty fast and you'll prolly at some stage jam up on masters w/ 13. Aside from the fact that most of your vamps have POT anyway. If anything I'd have 2 Celerity masters, a second additional strike can be better than POT on your potence cards and it makes your celerity cards more flexible. > Minion (72 cards) > 7 Blur > 7 Bums Rush > 4 Decapitate > 6 Disarm > 2 Fists of Death > 8 Flash > 10 Immortal Grapple > 3 Pushing the Limit > 2 Rampage > 7 Taste of Vitae > 9 Torn Signpost > 7 Undead Strenght I'd be inclined to have some sideslip in there so you can dodge aggro damage, if you don't need to dodge it gives you an additional strike. IG won't let you dodge but you won't need to play it if facing agg hand damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: > > "Sylvain Gogel" <syl...@cognition.fr> wrote: > > > against obediance?? > > > > What can you do against Obedience at all, except for putting stealth > > in the deck, and hope they don't have many Second traditions. Stealth > > will water down the combat. > > ? > Stealth won't prevent Obedience - Obedience doesn't require a block. No, but it does require combat. I suppose Tim might have been thinking about other non-rush-combat decks that avoided Obedience by stealthing by the block and thus succeeded in their non-combat action. Or he might mean that he could have avoided Obedience by rushing younger vampires and avoiding the blocks of the older vampires who could use the Obedience card. Fred

"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote: > we had a problem once with the wording of obedience. My !nosferatu > predator had a "Milicent smith" on his side. he played a bum's rush on > one of my big cap vampire, then of course added stealth when i wanted > to block. Before entering combat, i played "obedience". There is the > words "action is blocked" on obedience, although i never was able to > succesfully block the action itself. Yes, you were. Obedience resulted in the action being blocked, by card text. > Does the acting minion burn due to "Milicent smith" ?? Yes. The acting vampire's action was blocked (card text on Obedience), and Millicent says that that results in Millicent and the acting vampire being burned. > and what about "Kiss of Ra" and "Milicent smith" ? Yes, by the same reasoning. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3A639533...@netcom.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Exactly, the only thing against Obedience is that you'll have to enter combat. With sufficient stealth no combat occurs. However, any Rush deck will fail in sight of Obedience IMO. > -- A.A.H. Tim Eijpe V:EKN Prince of Utrecht The Netherlands E-mail: time...@hotmail.com PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise Ancient-The Cainian Chronicles [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3A633CA4...@math.wisc.edu>, [ quoted text not captured ] Actually I have, as I normally would play a Pot-only deck, which is IMO way more effective. Still I was just toying around with this as even though I have been playing since 94-95, I had never played this kind of deck. Most of the changes you suggested (blood doll vs Pot masters) hev been done, and indeed more FoD would benice weren't it that the others are in a Lasombra Strenght based IG deck, with enough Shadow strikes to offset manouvering opponents. Thanx! > James > -- > James Hamblin > ham...@math.wisc.edu > > "What drives you on can drive you mad. > A million lies to sell yourself is all > you ever had." > -- Garbage > -- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <943jes$be8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Tim Eijpe <t_e...@my-deja.com> wrote: > Exactly, the only thing against Obedience is that you'll have to enter > combat. With sufficient stealth no combat occurs. However, any Rush deck > will fail in sight of Obedience IMO. That doesn't seem a foregone conclusion. Passive defence like Obedience leaves the attacker unscathed, ready for another go. Quite different from the treatment the Gangrel or Tzimisce might deal. The only thing that the rusher loses is time - important I'll concede but less bad than loss of time and minion. When the target is known or expected to use Obedience, you must expect that it will take several attempts to get into combat with the desired minion. If you happen to find your hand jammed with Bum's Rush/Ambush, this is a fine opportunity to loosen things up. Otherwise, Haven Uncovered is the weapon of choice, giving you a combat opportunity for each of your minions. At the worst, the target minion has to waste his next action removing the haven or face another multiple onslaught. Tom [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <943oq9$g4j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Sure you are right in that sense, but what I am talking about is one of my own decks, packing 10 second trads, and 12+ obedience a long with secure haven and 4 sudden reversals, against the Havens. Take 6 rabble raizing with that and you'll get the idea.:) There are players here that use a concept just like this. That was what I was talking about. And whatever the defense your prey has, you'll have to rush anyway, as that is the only thing your deck can do. i'd rather die trying than not try at all. Tim -- A.A.H. Tim Eijpe V:EKN Prince of Utrecht The Netherlands E-mail: time...@hotmail.com PROPHECY OF GEHENNA: On The First Day Of Gehenna The Shrieking Wind Shall Be Silent And When A Black Sun Hangs From A Somber Sky Caine's Sleeping Children Shall Once Again Arise Ancient-The Cainian Chronicles [ quoted text not captured ]

Just a flaw Wolf Claws!!! Take [ quoted text not captured ]