Questions

Q: If i block a vampire with an ACHING BEUTY on it and he plays CHANGE OF TARGET do i still loose the 1 pool for blocking . Q: When my prey yelds a contestion when do i get my card back ? Q: What is the final ruling on the TOMB OF RAMSES Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity is ? Everybody is welcome to send ANY and ALL mail that has anything to do with V:TES to : ho...@intergate.bc.ca

ho...@intergate.bc.ca (Michal Kranc) writes: >Q: If i block a vampire with an ACHING BEUTY on it and he plays CHANGE >OF TARGET do i still loose the 1 pool for blocking . Yes. CoT is played after the block. So the blocker would already have cost the controlling Meth a pool. >Q: When my prey yelds a contestion when do i get my card back ? During your next untap phase. >Q: What is the final ruling on the TOMB OF RAMSES Play as written. No ruling has been given. >Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity >is ? Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | It's not the same when I'm http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | not in the holodeck Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | - Riker

> L. Scott Johnson writes: > >Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be > >controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The > >excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. > > > > Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an > additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? > I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately > lost... It is lost; it drains off into the blood bank, not your pool. James -- James Hamblin je...@cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Only one human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else." -- Ambassador Delenn, "Babylon 5: Severed Dreams"

duc...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR (Philippe DUCHON) writes: >L. Scott Johnson writes: >>ho...@intergate.bc.ca (Michal Kranc) writes: >> >>>Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity >>>is ? >> >>Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be >>controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The >>excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. >> >Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an >additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? That's correct. >I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately >lost... Nope. Subject: Re: Question re:voting cards - vamp back to inactive region From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Date: 1996/06/15 Message-Id: <4ptksp$3...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> At the end of your influence phase, any of your uncontrolled vampires that have enough blood on them (i.e., capacity or greater) become controlled. How the blood got there is unimportant. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Hamblin wrote: > > > L. Scott Johnson writes: > > >Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be > > >controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The > > >excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. > > > > > > > Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an > > additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? > > I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately > > lost... > > It is lost; it drains off into the blood bank, not your pool. Hmm yes it does drain into the pool if it comes out with more blood on it that its capacity. You could, However transfer this excess blood off during the influence phase. That is what the previous post was getting at. Cheers, Karl

>> Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an >> additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? >> I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately >> lost... >It is lost; it drains off into the blood bank, not your pool. Does it immediately drain off? I thought it only drains off when the vamp becomes controlled. So if that is indeed the case and you still have some transfers left, you should be able to pull the additional blood back. Sorrow -- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

cbo...@apdi.net (Sorrow) writes: >>> Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an >>> additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? >>> I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately >>> lost... >>It is lost; it drains off into the blood bank, not your pool. >Does it immediately drain off? I thought it only drains off when the vamp >becomes controlled. So if that is indeed the case and you still have some >transfers left, you should be able to pull the additional blood back. It does not immediately drain off. It only drains off when the vampire becomes controlled. The vamp will (mandatorily) become controlled at the end of the influence phase, if he still has blood on him equal to or in excess of his capacity. You could use transfers to pull some blood off of him before that time, true. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 2 Dec 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > ho...@intergate.bc.ca (Michal Kranc) writes: > > >Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity > >is ? > > Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be > controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The > excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. > The rulebook makes no restriction in having more blood on an unc. vamp than it's capacity, I think. However the rulebook clearly says that: "At the end of the influence phase, a vampire with counters equal to his or her blood capacity is considered controlled. The vamp is turned face up, (etc.)" No reference to the event of having more than enough counters on the vamp, so I assume that it remains uncontrolled untill it has counters *equal* to it's capacity. Scott, I believe that what you say requires official errata to be true. Is this the case? David Pontes 8[

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > ho...@intergate.bc.ca (Michal Kranc) writes: > >Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity > >is ? > > Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be > controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The > excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. > I don't think this is correct. Unfortunately, I don't have my VTES rulebook available here, only my Jyhad rulebook. In the Jyhad rulebook, under "Blood Capacity" (pg 11), it says "A vampire cannot have more blood than its capacity. If an effect puts more blood on the vampire, ignore the excess." There is no reference to controlled or uncontrolled, so the above should apply to uncontrolled vampires as well. --- Eric Pettersen pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (NeXTmail capable)

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > duc...@LaBRI.U-Bordeaux.FR (Philippe DUCHON) writes: > >L. Scott Johnson writes: > >Hey ! That means a Govern the Unaligned on a 2-cap vampire nets you an > >additional 1 pool (for the 2 transfers needed to get back the surplus) ? > > That's correct. > > >I thought you could only put it at capacity and the excess was immediately > >lost... > > Nope. > > Subject: Re: Question re:voting cards - vamp back to inactive region > From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) > Date: 1996/06/15 > Message-Id: <4ptksp$3...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> > > At the end of your influence phase, any of your uncontrolled vampires > that have enough blood on them (i.e., capacity or greater) become > controlled. How the blood got there is unimportant. It seems that Tom's answer is in reply to the question of when Banished vampires come out of the uncontrolled region, right? The question he was answering wasn't whether you could put more blood on a vampire than its capacity, was it? I ask because I would think that he would be more elaborate than a parenthetical comment if he had actually meant to issue errata to the rulebook (which does specifically say that a vampire cannot have more blood than its capacity). He may have said "or greater" for two reasons I can think of: wasn't concentrating on the question of going over a vamp's capacity so he just off-handedly said "or greater" -- or to cover the case where a specific card text "breaks the rules" and allows over-capacity vamps. Of course, the third (unlikely, I think) possibility is that he intended to errata the rulebook. If I'm wrong and he was actually answering the question "can an uncontrolled vamp go over capacity", then I retract all the above. :-) Otherwise, if/when Jon shows up on the newsgroup again, I think I'll ask the question specifically because I don't think the intent of Tom's reply was to indirectly errata the rulebook. [ quoted text not captured ]

pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu.delete.this.unless.youre.a.junk.emailer (Eric Pettersen) writes: >He may have said "or greater" for two reasons I can think of: wasn't >concentrating on the question of going over a vamp's capacity so he just >off-handedly said "or greater" -- or to cover the case where a specific card >text "breaks the rules" and allows over-capacity vamps. Of course, the >third (unlikely, I think) possibility is that he intended to errata the >rulebook. The third is unlikely, I'll grant you. Issuing errata is typically not done in parenthesis within a post regarding a different issue. A fourth (and the actual) reason is: he said "or greater" because that's the way the game's played - no errata necessary. He put it in parenthesis because it was just reminder text as to what "enough blood on them" means. Here's a better example from my archives - a little less questionable: From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Influence/Transfers (was Re: Some questions...) Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:07:55 GMT Message-ID: <3fkoir$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). If the vampire is uncontrolled, it simply pops out at the end of the influence phase, and immediately bleeds off any excess; this gives you time to draw the excess into your pool via transfers. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * <-- Tribble http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | o <-- Jean-Luc Tribble [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <58p00u$j...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >Here's a better example from my archives - a little less questionable: > > From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) > Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > Subject: Re: Influence/Transfers (was Re: Some questions...) > Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:07:55 GMT > Message-ID: <3fkoir$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> > > You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the > vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off > (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal > damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). Has this particular ruling not been reversed ? Checking Rules version 2.8 V.D.2.b.iv seems to indicate that excess blood from Steal blood bleeds off immediately. Only you are allowed to use stolen blood during Resolve Damage to prevent burning etc. Am I wrong here ? Michael -- Michael Gerdau email: m.ge...@elmshorn.netsurf.de 2b or not 2b that's ff (or ger...@ifm.uni-hamburg.de) WWW-Homepage http://elmshorn.netsurf.de/~m.gerdau PGP-key available on request or at public keyserver Key fingerprint = 1FA5AEC97D4EF476 E964D42685B60B4E

In article <ZpGtyo7y...@elmshorn.netsurf.de>, m.ge...@elmshorn.netsurf.de (Michael Gerdau) wrote: > > > From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) > > Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > > Subject: Re: Influence/Transfers (was Re: Some questions...) > > Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:07:55 GMT > > Message-ID: <3fkoir$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> > > > > You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the > > vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off > > (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal > > damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). > > Has this particular ruling not been reversed ? > Yes, it has been reversed. Sorry for not mentioning that when I posted Tom's article. All blood in excess of capacity, even stolen blood, drains off immediately. --- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Confidence occurs when you http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | are ignorant of the facts. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (Eric Pettersen) writes: >sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: >> ho...@intergate.bc.ca (Michal Kranc) writes: >> >Q: Can you put more blood on an uncontrolled vampire then it's capacity >> >is ? >> >> Yes. It will come out at the end of the influence phase of its would-be >> controller (if it still has sufficient blood on it at that time). The >> excess will then drain off to the blood bank, as normal. >> >I don't think this is correct. Unfortunately, I don't have my VTES rulebook >available here, only my Jyhad rulebook. In the Jyhad rulebook, under >"Blood Capacity" (pg 11), it says "A vampire cannot have more blood than >its capacity. If an effect puts more blood on the vampire, ignore the >excess." There is no reference to controlled or uncontrolled, so the above >should apply to uncontrolled vampires as well. Nothing, from card text to rulebook rules, applies to or affects uncontrolled vampires unless stated explicitly. Additionally, this effect was spelled out by Tom some time ago: From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Influence/Transfers (was Re: Some questions...) Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:07:55 GMT Message-ID: <3fkoir$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). If the vampire is uncontrolled, it simply pops out at the end of the influence phase, and immediately bleeds off any excess; this gives you time to draw the excess into your pool via transfers. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >Additionally, this effect was spelled out by Tom some time ago: > From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) > Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > Subject: Re: Influence/Transfers (was Re: Some questions...) > Date: 19 Jan 1995 04:07:55 GMT > Message-ID: <3fkoir$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> > You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the > vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off > (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal > damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). Again, I forgot to mention this "excestion" in parentheses is no longer official. All blood in excess of capacity, regardless of the source, drains off immediately. My apologies. > If the vampire is uncontrolled, it simply pops out at the end of the > influence phase, and immediately bleeds off any excess; this gives you > time to draw the excess into your pool via transfers. [ quoted text not captured ]

Hi LSJ, On 18 Dec 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: > > > You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the > > vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off > > (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal > > damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). > > Again, I forgot to mention this "excestion" in parentheses is no longer > official. All blood in excess of capacity, regardless of the source, > drains off immediately. My apologies. > Ahh, so it is no longer the official lae of Jyhad/V:TES that vampires can use stolen blood in excess of their capacity for preventing damage? I like this very much, but was unaware of the change. When was this reversed? Algustas *****Character is what you are in the dark***** Dwight L. Moody

Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes: >Hi LSJ, Hi. >On 18 Dec 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: >> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >> Again, I forgot to mention this "exception" in parentheses is no longer >> official. All blood in excess of capacity, regardless of the source, >> drains off immediately. My apologies. >> > Ahh, so it is no longer the official law of Jyhad/V:TES that >vampires can use stolen blood in excess of their capacity for preventing >damage? I like this very much, but was unaware of the change. When was >this reversed? Hurm. It (the exception) was in effect as late as Feb. 1996 (when Tom made a reference to it). I cannot find a reference for it being reversed, however. I'm pretty sure it works the way I said (that is, the exception is no longer official), but since I can't preoduce an official reference, and since no official representative is availbale to ask, I guess we'll just have to fall back to the February ruling. Sorry for the confusion. [ quoted text not captured ]

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes: >>On 18 Dec 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: >>> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >>> Again, I forgot to mention this "exception" in parentheses is no longer >>> official. All blood in excess of capacity, regardless of the source, >>> drains off immediately. My apologies. >>> >> Ahh, so it is no longer the official law of Jyhad/V:TES that >>vampires can use stolen blood in excess of their capacity for preventing >>damage? I like this very much, but was unaware of the change. When was >>this reversed? >I cannot find a reference for it being reversed I think I've found the thread of my reasoning. The exception existed in the Jyhad rulebook: [15.3] If the amount stolen exceeds the stealing vampire's capacity, the excess is kept on the vampire until the end of the turn and then put in the bank. None of the examples in the Jyhad rulebook illustrate this point, however. The exception was clearly eliminated in the VtES rulebook: (8.3) If the stolen blood exceeds the capacity of the vampire stealing it, the excess is moved to the blood bank This rule is illustrated in an example: (21.1) The attack steals 2 blood. Eliza steals one point to go up to full capacity. She can't steal the second blood point, however, because she's now at full blood capacity. Cassandra still loses 2 blood, however, and the extra blood point goes into the blood bank And it goes on to say (unrelated to the fact that the excess drains off immediately): The stolen blood will also heal the vampire immediately. This blood can be burned by damage that is not dealt with First Strike. (Illustrating the point that blood is burned to heal damage /after/ the strikes are resolved). This last bit can cause confusion if read too quickly. It can (and often is) misinterpretted to mean something akin to the Jyhad rule. The outline (version 2.0) was updated to reflect this new rule, as presented in the post by Tom Wylie of 28 Sep 1995 - a post which came compete with all of the errata to the rulebook. That errata did not include any changes to the Steal Blood rule. Except for an off-hand reference from Tom in Feb 1996, no other official mention of the rule has been made. At the time, I did not take Tom's reference as an attempt to issue new errata, but rather just ruling based on what Tom viewed as existing errata. I could be wrong in this belief, but that's how I read the article. This off-hand reference was probably (IMHO) in error, much as Tom's short-lived assertion that a stolen weapon could be used the same round in which it was stolen if the thief had additional strikes. I would recommend, for people who use official rules (like JOL, and some other groups), that the rules as printed in the VtES rulebook be taken as official. For the majority of groups out there that use house rules to make the game work, I present my reasoning here and suggest that you discuss it during your next session, before it actually comes up in play. Happy hunting... [ quoted text not captured ]

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: > >Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes: > >>On 18 Dec 1996, L. Scott Johnson wrote: > >>> sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: > >> Ahh, so it is no longer the official law of Jyhad/V:TES that > >>vampires can use stolen blood in excess of their capacity for preventing > >>damage? I like this very much, but was unaware of the change. When was > >>this reversed? > > >I cannot find a reference for it being reversed > > I think I've found the thread of my reasoning. > > The exception existed in the Jyhad rulebook: > > [15.3] If the amount stolen exceeds the stealing vampire's capacity, > the excess is kept on the vampire until the end of the turn and then > put in the bank. There must be different printings of the Jyhad rulebook. My rulebook says nothing like the above. Instead, it says (section 15.3, pg. 36): The amount of blood stolen is given to the stealing vampire. If the amount stolen exceeds the stealing vampire's capacity, the excess is ignored. Yet another intricacy of interpreting the rules. Different printings of the same rulebook! [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson writes: > You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. If the > vampire is controlled, the excess immediately, well, bleeds off > (except in the case of Steal Blood, when the excess is used to heal > damage for the rest of the combat, and then any excess goes away). > If the vampire is uncontrolled, it simply pops out at the end of the > influence phase, and immediately bleeds off any excess; this gives you > time to draw the excess into your pool via transfers. Of course, no one knows what vampire you're influencing (unless they have that Nossie). You could potentially bluff someone into thinking your Caitiff is really a a justicar, if you never actually pull it out. How honest do you have to be? -- ________________ "I wish I was a fearsome ______ ___@^^^^\ / \ engine of destruction!" / \ @ \_____/ David Schwartz \__________________________/ > (^^^^^\ _______ ___/ \---\ / \ da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz / \_____________/ \__________________________________/

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, I'm sorry. My reference was actually from the "corrected" Jyhad rulebook, as posted by Tom to this group, and as published in the Duelist. The fact that the original rulebook had this errata may be yet another reason (validation) for the idea that Tom was mis-remembering or mis-applying an old rule to the new rules. [ quoted text not captured ]

da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz (David Schwartz) writes: >L. Scott Johnson writes: >> You can always give a vampire more blood than its capacity. >> If the vampire is uncontrolled, it simply pops out at the end of the >> influence phase, and immediately bleeds off any excess; this gives you >> time to draw the excess into your pool via transfers. >Of course, no one knows what vampire you're influencing (unless >they have that Nossie). You could potentially bluff someone into >thinking your Caitiff is really a a justicar, if you never actually >pull it out. You have to expose it at the end of your influence phase. This is mandatory - you can't choose to leave it in the uncontrolled region. >How honest do you have to be? Dishonesty is called cheating. You can cheat in many ways, and this would be one example of that. [ quoted text not captured ]