rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

TWD - Mini Qualifier Lisboa - 11/07/2009

30 messages from 14 participants · 17 July 2009 – 21 July 2009
original thread on Google Groups

Brum

Another fun tournament in our usual spot - the IST university in Lisbon. Level of play was good and everybody had fun. Once again we had Eduardo from Coimbra taking his usual eraly train down to the Capital to join us. We gave players all the new Promo cards for this year, so everybody had a little bonus. List of Players Teresa Neves - Giovanni Tap N Bleed (her TWD of a few months ago) Eduardo Mateus - Ventrue Bruise N Bleed feat. Hardestadt Tiago Brum (me) - Fátima e os 3 Pastorinhos (Fatima Assault w/ Weenie AUS support) Ricardo Marta - Tremere Nuno Moure - Turbo Gehenna (see bellow) Mário Florindo - Imbued Bleed N Stuff Bruno Robalo - New Ventrue Law Firm Edgar Marques - New Malkavian Stealth N Bleed José Silva - Ravnos DEM Stealth N Bleed André Catarino - Malk 94 Ricardo Portela - Gangrel G3 Renegade Garou Eliseu Ângelo - Tupdog Swarm Prelims: The non-Finalists: Besides the 5 Finalists, there were some nice decks that did ok and helped to make some fun tables. I played with a Fatima - Assault deck and Bruno Robalo took a new Ventrue Law Firm that was based on Iñaki Puigdollers's design. The problems he faced were that he had no bounce, Imbued stoped him in one round and Fatima and Giovanni killed him in another. Also, that decks has no meta whatsoever. José Silva had a new deck that gave him a few VP's: Ravnos DEM Bleed. Mario Florindo brought one of his Imbued decks and made it to the Final, but had to drop after the third round. Another one of our best players, Ricardo Portela brought a Renegade Garou deck, but that was the wrong kind of ally for that day, regretfully. André Catarino brought his Malk94, that put a big target sign on his forehead and lots of people were playing bounce. Even me. Same fate for Egdar Marques with a modern crypt Malk Stealth and Bleed that featured Lutz. The Finalists: Nuno's Turbo Gehenna deck proved, as expected, to be demolishing. Teresa playing our Giovanni Tap N' Bleed that she already won a tournament with, got to the Final by Mario's drop. He couldn't attend the Final and thus Teresa got his place. Ricardo brought a Tremere bleed deck and got an interesting performance in round 3 that got him a place in the Final. Eliseu's Tupdog Swarm did specificaly well and TW in the First Round made him less preassured to play in the other 2 rounds. Eliseu and Teresa are going to Palma de Maiorca and were looking for the Qualifying Spot. Finally Eduardo brought a Hardestadt-based Ventrue bruise/bleed deck that was way under his usual quality. Still, he got a place in the Final, to Fatima's dismay, with a couple of combats that took Hardestadt to torpor, but not enough to kill his Methuselah. FINAL: Teresa - Eduardo - Ricardo - Eliseu - Nuno It started by Ricardo proposing to all players to oust Nuno first. Nuno was his ally, but it was clear to all he was the biggest threat at the table. It would only work if all players worked together. They did not. Teresa went hard for her VP agains Eduardo's Hardestadt. Eduardo was doing his best deflecting all bleeds he could to Nuno, but since Teresa never played stealth, her Giovannis were pulp for Imbued. Secondly she didn't wait for Eduardo to have his Deflections ready, so she didn't let Eduardo use Hardestadt to rush Imbueds. Note that at that time Nuno was already with 6 or 7 Events, 4 Mortals and lots of Convictions. Also a second turn Wormwood was grinding down every vampire to a small cap. Eliseu was sending Tupdogs against Nuno, depleeting Convinctions and coordinating bleeds with Ricardo, Deflecting them to Nuno. But Nuno DI- ed an On the Qui Vivre and forced Eliseu to take a big bleed from Ricardo. Then Ricardo decided to oust Eliseu, thus breaking the last chance of resistence against the Imbued. He still used two Blood of Sandman succesfully, but that wasn't enough. Nuno Moure won the tournament and was the first Portuguese to get a place at this year's European Championship. Name Prelim GWs Prelim VPs Final VPs TPs Nuno Moure 2 7 4 148 Eliseu Ângelo 1 4 0 126 Teresa Neves 1 3 0 96 Ricardo Marta 1 4 1 96 Eduardo Mateus 1 3 0 116 José Silva 0 3 120 Ricardo Portela 0 2 110 André Catarino 0 1 104 Bruno Robalo 0 1 94 Tiago Brum 0 1 84 Edgar Marques 0 0 64 Melkor Florindo 2 7 138 Winning Deck: Turbo Gehenna Player: Nuno Moure Crypt (13 cards; Capacity min=3 max=6 avg=4.15) 2x François Warden Loehr 3 def jud Judge:4 1x Inez Nurse216 Villagrande 3 inn Innocent:4 1x Jack Hannibal137 Harmon 4 def jud Defender:4 3x Jennie Cassie247 Orne 5 inn jud vis Visionary:4 1x Jennifer Flame61 Vidisania 4 ven vis Avenger:4 3x Leaf Potter116 Pankowski 4 inn red vis Redeemer:4 1x Pedro Cortez 4 mar ven Avenger:4 Library (60 cards) Master (19) 1x Direct Intervention 3x Dreams of the Sphinx 2x Fortschritt Library 1x Not to Be 3x Powerbase: Los Angeles 1x Sight Beyond Sight 6x Slaughterhouse, The 2x Sudden Reversal Event (16) 1x Anthelios, The Red Star 1x Blood Trade 1x Blood Weakens 1x Conquest of Humanity 1x Dragonbound 1x New Inquisition, The 1x Nightmares upon Nightmares 1x Recalled to the Founder 1x Restricted Vitae 1x Slow Withering, The 1x Thirst 1x Torpid Blood 1x Unmasking, The 3x Wormwood Conviction (12) 4x React with Conviction 4x Second Sight 4x Strike with Conviction Retainer (5) 5x D'habi Revenant Reaction (8) 8x Bloodstorm of Chorazin Cheers, Tiago Brum, Primogen of Domain Lisboa

The Lasombra

> Winning Deck: Turbo Gehenna > Player: Nuno Moure Congratulations to Nuno! Sounds like he must have played very well. > Crypt (13 cards; Capacity min=3 max=6 avg=4.15) > 2x François Warden Loehr 3 def jud Judge:4 > 1x Inez Nurse216 Villagrande 3 inn Innocent:4 > 1x Jack Hannibal137 Harmon 4 def jud Defender:4 > 3x Jennie Cassie247 Orne 5 inn jud vis Visionary:4 > 1x Jennifer Flame61 Vidisania 4 ven vis Avenger:4 > 3x Leaf Potter116 Pankowski 4 inn red vis Redeemer:4 > 1x Pedro Cortez 4 mar ven Avenger:4 No powers at all, interesting, also no combat at all and none of the cancel action or bounce bleed card. > Conviction (12) > 4x React with Conviction > 4x Second Sight > 4x Strike with Conviction > Burn Option cards (19) > 5x D'habi Revenant > 6x Slaughterhouse, The > 8x Bloodstorm of Chorazin I am a bit surprised by this. With only 4 of each Conviction I would think it would be terribly difficult to have many in play on the Imbued minions. I'd have gone for quite a few more playable Convictions and fewer Burn Option cards, but I guess it worked out. Would love to hear how his other rounds worked out as well. http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com

Rhavas

[ quoted text not captured ] Agreed, I would love to hear more about how this deck did. Did the Events just totally crush the table? I would have thought the build up time to getting sufficient Events to fuel the Wormwood would leave this deck vulernable.

Brum

[ quoted text not captured ] The way he played it, was to have all the Events out as soon as possible. No actions whatsoever, untill all vamps were weenies and that came pretty fast. His goal was for a second turn Wormwood and from then on, just put 2 Events per turn. The Convictions he pushed when the Imbueds got up, were enough to star pumping them with protection, plus the abilities of the imbued were also very usefull. 4 Imbued got burned in the Final before he got his first VP. No biggie. I'll tell to post here his opinions on this. Cheers, Tiago

_angst_

On 17 Juli, 22:43, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > > His goal was for a second turn Wormwood and from then on, just put 2 > Events per turn. I'm sorry to say that you can't do that. Even though you have muliple discard phase actions the rules only allow you o put 1 event into play each discard phase. Regards Alex

Ben Swainbank

On Jul 17, 4:43 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > > His goal was for a second turn Wormwood and from then on, just put 2 > Events per turn. Ah. When playing against this deck: 1. Go Anarch 2. Steal that Powerbase. -Ben Swainbank

Rhavas

[ quoted text not captured ] I am surprised to not see more of the Imbued with innate abilities that would help keep the deck alive, like Maman Boumba (burn a conviction for 3 votes), Travis Traveler72 Miller (+1 stealth action, add 2 blood from the blood bank to an uncontrolled Imbued costing 1 conviction), or Xian DziDzat155 Quan (after blocking a monster, if still ready, may get a conviction from hand or ash heap). I would think those inherent abilities would be really useful when everyone else is crippled, as you aren't using any cards requiring virtues or creeds, the crypt would be very flexible. [ quoted text not captured ]

Drain

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh crud. Alex is right, the deck was ill-built and played all along under the assumption that putting two events in play during a turn was feasible. As you can imagine, infalibly checking off two counters from Wormwood per turn led to this deck practically winning by default on any table where almost complete opponent coordination was not achieved. This came to spell victory on two of the preliminary tables (losing the second table to an Imbued combat deck, largely immune to the former's plays) and on the final table as well. As it were, going anarch and stealing the Powerbase is something much easier said than done, given that the table conditions are always steadily deteriorating and that you need to get past 4 blockers with about 2 intercept each. And even then I'm not sure if it would make that much of a difference, since the deck spews events from turn 1 and by about turn 3-4 (the earliest opportunity you get to act with a 3- cap Anarch with stealth) the table will already be littered with them. Drain

Johann von Doom

On Jul 17, 4:54 pm, Ben Swainbank <bswainb...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Ah. When playing against this deck: > > 1. Go Anarch > 2. Steal that Powerbase. Or force the person playing it to play by the rules. 1.6.4. Event Cards Event cards are played to represent events that affect the World of Darkness as a whole. Once each discard phase, a Methuselah may use a discard phase action to put an event card in play. Each event can only be played once in a game. An event card is controlled by the Methuselah who played it, by default. I'm curious as to what happens with the tournament results now, given that the tournament winner (inadvertantly) cheated in every round. John Eno

Brum

On Jul 17, 11:31 pm, Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] A little while ago, there was a TWD with a deck that had vampires from 3 distinct groups and it just went by. As one of the organisers of the tournament I only feel its bad for the 2 people in the final that already booked a flight and Hotel for Palma de Maiorca. I don't think Nuno is going, and neither is the 2nd place player. Still, it was a fun tournament to play and nobody in the room knew that one could only play one Event. Could we qualify someone else from the Final, I wonder? I don't expect it to be possible, but it would be cool. Cheers, Tiago

LSJ

Johann von Doom wrote: > On Jul 17, 4:54 pm, Ben Swainbank <bswainb...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Ah. When playing against this deck: >> >> 1. Go Anarch >> 2. Steal that Powerbase. > > Or force the person playing it to play by the rules. > > 1.6.4. Event Cards > Event cards are played to represent events that affect the World of > Darkness as a whole. Once each discard phase, a Methuselah may use a > discard phase action to put an event card in play. Each event can only > be played once in a game. An event card is controlled by the > Methuselah who played it, by default. > > I'm curious as to what happens with the tournament results now,. Same as any other tournament in which a misplay occurred and yet was still judged impartially and played and judged to the best of the players' and judges' abilities (which is probably the majority of tournaments): the result stands.

The Lasombra

On Fri, 17 July 2009 15:41:32 -0700 (PDT), Brum wrote: >> John Eno wrote this: >> I'm curious as to what happens with the tournament results now, given >> that the tournament winner (inadvertantly) cheated in every round. It won't go in the TWDA nor will it be archived on http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com >A little while ago, there was a TWD with a deck that had vampires from >3 distinct groups and it just went by. If you can point to one in the TWDA it will immediately be removed. Carpe noctem. The Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com Your best source of V:TES information. Now also selling boxes and individual cards.

Ira Fay

On Jul 17, 3:41 pm, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 17, 11:31 pm, Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Jul 17, 4:54 pm, Ben Swainbank <bswainb...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Ah. When playing against this deck: > > > > 1. Go Anarch > > > 2. Steal that Powerbase. > > > Or force the person playing it to play by the rules. > > > 1.6.4. Event Cards > > Event cards are played to represent events that affect the World of > > Darkness as a whole. Once each discard phase, a Methuselah may use a > > discard phase action to put an event card in play. Each event can only > > be played once in a game. An event card is controlled by the > > Methuselah who played it, by default. > > > I'm curious as to what happens with the tournament results now, given > > that the tournament winner (inadvertantly) cheated in every round. > > > John Eno > > A little while ago, there was a TWD with a deck that had vampires from > 3 distinct groups and it just went by. I'm still a little sad and bitter about that, because it was one of my more creative decks. It was Enkidu Brinksmanship with Raptors, and I had Lubomira in the deck instead of some other weenie group 3-4 obf vamp. Lubomira didn't come up in any of the three rounds I played, so it had no effect on the game. But The Lasombra was strict about it (rightfully so - it's an illegal deck), it's not in the TWDA, and it doesn't count towards Hall of Fame. Of course, I shouldn't feel too bitter, because the only reason I won was due to an unfortunate math error by Chris. He should have won instead of me. Ira

Oko

So the organizer plays in his own qualifier event. Again. From tournament rules; 1.1. Player Eligibility Any player is eligible to participate in an open, non-invitational, V:EKN-sanctioned tournament (for non-open tournaments, see section 9.8) except for the following: * The tournament organizer of record (unless he or she is participating in an event that uses the Multi-Judge System; see section 2.9); * The head judge and any other listed judges of record (exception: see section 2.9); 2.9. Multi-Judge System The Multi-Judge System may be used at any non-qualifier, non- championship tournament with at least eight participants (i.e., having at least two tables).

Brum

On Jul 18, 10:20 am, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote: > So the organizer plays in his own qualifier event. > Again. Wrong. A Mini Qualifier is a normal constructed event with a "special" award for the winner. We used multi judge. From the Rules: Mini-Qualifiers Once each calendar year, a Prince may run a Mini-Qualifier - a tournament where the winner wins a qualifying spot for that year's Continental Championships. This is in addition to the current Continental Qualifier system, and does not replace it. Unlike a normal qualifier, the tournament organizer for this event does not automatically qualify. * Event Format Mini-Qualifiers are constructed deck tournaments. The Mini- Qualifiers are open to all players. * Qualifying The minimum attendance at the Mini-Qualifier in order to award the qualifying spot is 12 players (minimum possible for 3 tables, and avoids 11-player events). If the tournament does not get at least 12 players, that Prince may run one more Mini-Qualifier that calendar year. The qualifying spot is awarded to the winner of the tournament. Cheers

Powerlord

On 18 Jul, 00:09, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >A little while ago, there was a TWD with a deck that had vampires from > >3 distinct groups and it just went by. > > If you can point to one in the TWDA it will immediately be removed. Hi, i think Brum is talking about a tournament held in US where one of the players had group 2, 3 an 4 Ventrues, but it's wasn't a TWD. I'll check with him later. Never the less, it was our mistake because we didn't red the "1.6.4. Event Cards" section. Now we know it and it won't happen again. All we can do as organizers is to apologize all players for your misjudgement. Thanks Ricardo Marta Prince of Lisboa Portugal

James Coupe

Brum <tiago...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Jul 18, 10:20�am, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote: >> So the organizer plays in his own qualifier event. >> Again. > >Wrong. A Mini Qualifier is a normal constructed event with a "special" >award for the winner. We used multi judge. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3b537146c8e5ae01 From OrgPlay: Mini-qualifiers are qualifiers and therefore cannot use the multi- judge rules. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

_angst_

On 18 Juli, 14:42, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Jul 18, 10:20 am, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> So the organizer plays in his own qualifier event. > >> Again. > > >Wrong. A Mini Qualifier is a normal constructed event with a "special" > >award for the winner. We used multi judge. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3b53... > From OrgPlay: > > Mini-qualifiers are qualifiers and therefore cannot use the multi- > judge rules. > > -- > James Coupe > PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. > EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. > 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION. It still bugs me how dumb that rule is :O //Alex

Oko

On 18 heinä, 17:20, _angst_ <a...@student.chalmers.se> wrote: > On 18 Juli, 14:42, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > > > > > Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Jul 18, 10:20 am, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> So the organizer plays in his own qualifier event. > > >> Again. > > > >Wrong. A Mini Qualifier is a normal constructed event with a "special" > > >award for the winner. We used multi judge. > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3b53... > > From OrgPlay: > > > Mini-qualifiers are qualifiers and therefore cannot use the multi- > > judge rules. > > > -- > > James Coupe > It still bugs me how dumb that rule is :O > > //Alex Indeed. Nevertheless, it IS there. It still bugs me how many choose to ignore it.

Powerlord

On 20 Jul, 07:13, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Indeed. > Nevertheless, it IS there. It still bugs me how many choose to ignore > it. Maybe we didn't choose to ignore it, maybe it is just a lack of information on these page because we checked the Championship page and didn't check the tournaments page. As you can see in the link below, in the Championship page at WW's site, it does not have any of these information. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Championship But thanks for the information. [ quoted text not captured ]

Oko

[ quoted text not captured ] Indeed. It *IS* a rule that could do with either a) losing it completely due to being *generally* viewed as dumb b) having it enforced, which would invariably lead to pissing people off, for no good reason c) having it be brought better into wider knowledge. Until then, breaking the law breaking the law. Rock on.

Nuno moure

On 17 Jul, 21:54, _angst_ <a...@student.chalmers.se> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] If I had known that I wouldn't played this deck. Is kinda sad that i've won the tournament with a strategy which can not be (thou the deck is completly legal). Strategy wise, my aim was for 3 minions at first and a fourth for the oust. The conviction ciclying was made via Fatso (Leaf). The only table that was not always under contro was number two, in wich my prey was Melkor (imbued target vitals). I'm realy pissed with this, of the 2 gehenas per turn, 'cause the qualifier is thus tainted. I'm more pissed than the other players, by what we talked.

Johannes Walch

Nuno moure schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] Don�t be to worried about it, shit happens. Diego Maradona also scored some goals with the "hand of god" :-)))

Nuno moure

[ quoted text not captured ] > some goals with the "hand of god" :-)))- Ocultar texto citado - > > - Mostrar texto citado - TY, I was thinking of playing with marcus vitel Imbued (with which I already won a tournament), with some tweaks (I've stolen from Melkor, who had stolen it from hunter.net in the first place). I went for something completly different just cause i'm tired of playing AUS+something (be it presence, dominate, vissicitude, whathever). Guess I shouldn't...

Brum

[ quoted text not captured ] This Tournament had 2 problems, but I must tell you that all players involved had great fun. It was another great tournament with great tables and good plays. It wouldn't count to qualify anybody anyway, since there were only 12 of us. Follow up question, Can I count as Organizer of more then one Mini Qualifer? A ask here because feedback with WW pyramid is really lagging. Cheers, Tiago

Nuno moure

[ quoted text not captured ] Well Jeff, I would like to start saying that, thou we never spoke I've followed your opinios very closely for some time. Is sad that's under this circunstances (the "cheating" and all, thou was a "fair" mistake, lots off people didn't knew the rule). Has for the convictions, you can cycle them very well with Leaf. You can use her ability even thou she has 5 convictions (and burn the one you want). My intention was to bring only 3 minions into the table at first, which would give me both staying and ousting power, and after go with the flow. The concept was perfect, the gehenas are devastating, and i guess i can make the deck work even with one per turn, no biggie. Imbued are just that resilient. To finish, i'm really happy with the rule of only one per turn, I really hated this deck, even playing it. Its just not fun cause you have nothing to offer (but you need lots of table talk to avoid the gang bang).

The Lasombra

On Mon, 20 July 2009 14:22:07 -0700 (PDT), Brum wrote: >Can I count as Organizer of more then one Mini Qualifer? If your mini-qualifier attempt fails to meet the required number of players, then that Prince may hold a second mini-qualifier. The non-playing judge may judge as many events as are held within his area of influence. [ quoted text not captured ]

Brum

[ quoted text not captured ] Area of influence? Exactly what do you mean by that? Can I judge in the Mini Qualifiers of other Princes? I'm to organise our European Qualifier, so I'm qualified and this year there are alot of players here wanting to go to Palma de Maiorca. Cheers, t.

The Lasombra

On Mon, 20 July 2009 16:09:54 -0700 (PDT), Brum wrote: >> >Can I count as Organizer of more then one Mini Qualifer? >> If your mini-qualifier attempt fails to meet the required number of >> players, then that Prince may hold a second mini-qualifier. >> The non-playing judge may judge as many events as are held within his >> area of influence. >Area of influence? Area in which you are trusted to judge. >Exactly what do you mean by that? The locations to which you are willing to travel and to which they are willing to trust you to judge. >Can I judge in the Mini Qualifiers of other Princes? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Brum

[ quoted text not captured ] Great! Thanks for you help. Hope to see you in Palma de Maiorca. t.