KMW new rule: Trophy

Trophy is a new type of master card. A trophy may be put into play using a master phase action (or can be retrieved as listed under "Red List"). It has no effect until it is moved to a vampire. When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move the trophy to that vampire. Any number of trophies in play may be moved to the vampire in this way. Once placed on a vampire, a trophy cannot be moved again. See the Red List rule for more about playing Trophies.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hmmm...if the trophy is moved to a vampire, it does not state that control of the trophy changes. Is that correct (i.e. control does not change)? "Once placed on a vampire, a trophy cannot be moved again." How does that apply to burning? Is burning considered "moving" to the ash heap? What happens if the controller of the trophy (but not of the vampire) is ousted? Does the Trophy stay or does the rule prevent it from being moved away?

[ quoted text not captured ] I don't really get this. Red List said that burning the vampire meant that (among other things) you could search your library for a Trophy. But that is most likely during your minion phase. So why do you put Trophies into the game, when you can search them from your library? Also, what's the point if they don't do anything anyway until you burn a Red List minion? Does moving a Master:Trophy card from your Library somehow still cost a MPA? What about multiple Trophies being movable to the same vampire? I'm clueless... -- Bye, Daneel

<echia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1107792338.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Hmmm...if the trophy is moved to a vampire, it does not state that > control of the trophy changes. Is that correct (i.e. control does not > change)? No stated change of control and no rules-based change of control means control doesn't change, right. > "Once placed on a vampire, a trophy cannot be moved again." How does > that apply to burning? Is burning considered "moving" to the ash heap? > What happens if the controller of the trophy (but not of the vampire) > is ousted? Does the Trophy stay or does the rule prevent it from being > moved away? It burns just fine. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:opslt478...@news.chello.hu... > On 7 Feb 2005 06:22:48 -0800, Papipo <pap...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Trophy is a new type of master card. A trophy may be put into play > > using a master phase action (or can be retrieved as listed under "Red > > List"). It has no effect until it is moved to a vampire. > > > > When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action > > (including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move > > the trophy to that vampire. Any number of trophies in play may be moved > > to the vampire in this way. Once placed on a vampire, a trophy cannot > > be moved again. > > > > See the Red List rule for more about playing Trophies. > > I don't really get this. Red List said that burning the vampire meant > that (among other things) you could search your library for a Trophy. > But that is most likely during your minion phase. So why do you put > Trophies into the game, when you can search them from your library? Possible reasons: 1) You want more than one trophy for your effort. 2) You want to use them as incentives to get other Methuselahs to beat up on a pesky Red Lister. 3) It's in your hand and you don't want it blocking there until your discard phase and/or you have another use for your upcoming discard phase action. > Also, what's the point if they don't do anything anyway until you > burn a Red List minion? Does moving a Master:Trophy card from your > Library somehow still cost a MPA? What about multiple Trophies being No. > movable to the same vampire? I'm clueless... Multiple in-play ones can be, per the rule. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:41:49 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> I don't really get this. Red List said that burning the vampire meant >> that (among other things) you could search your library for a Trophy. >> But that is most likely during your minion phase. So why do you put >> Trophies into the game, when you can search them from your library? > > Possible reasons: > 1) You want more than one trophy for your effort. > 2) You want to use them as incentives to get other Methuselahs to beat > up on a pesky Red Lister. > 3) It's in your hand and you don't want it blocking there until > your discard phase and/or you have another use for your upcoming > discard phase action. I think I'm starting to get this. I think that what confused me was how the thing was separated into two rules... So. Combining the relevant parts of the Trophy and Red List rules: When any vampire (from now on: the Hero) burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action (including diablerie), the following separate events trigger: i) The controller of the Hero can search his or her library, ash heap or hand for a single (one) Trophy card and place that card on the Hero with no additional costs (in MPAs, for example). ii) The controllers of any Master:Trophy cards that were put into play in the regular fashion (e.g. for MPAs) may choose, for each Trophy whether they wish to move that particular Trophy to the Hero. Meaning, that I can get a maximum of X+1 Trophies (X being the ones already in play, and the +1 is the one I search my Library/Hand/Ash Heap for). Provided, of course, that all X are controlled by me (or by Methuselahs who are willing to give them to me). Right? ;) -- Bye, Daneel

LSJ wrote: > 2) You want to use them as incentives to get other Methuselahs to beat > up on a pesky Red Lister. Just to verify: There's no mechanic that forces a trophy put into play via an MPA actually be awarded, right? Ie, I can put Trophy: Clan Respect into play and say, "Hey, who wants to burn Kemintiri ADV?", but once someone does, I can then go, "Neener neener" if I wish, right? --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:wOednTH7PK5...@speakeasy.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Right. Future actions are not constrained by deals or other table talk. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:opslt9j6...@news.chello.hu... > So. Combining the relevant parts of the Trophy and Red List rules: > > When any vampire (from now on: the Hero) burns a Red List minion in combat > or as a (D) action (including diablerie), the following separate events > trigger: i) The controller of the Hero can search his or her library, ash > heap or hand for a single (one) Trophy card and place that card on the > Hero with no additional costs (in MPAs, for example). ii) The controllers > of any Master:Trophy cards that were put into play in the regular fashion > (e.g. for MPAs) may choose, for each Trophy whether they wish to move > that particular Trophy to the Hero. > > Meaning, that I can get a maximum of X+1 Trophies (X being the ones already > in play, and the +1 is the one I search my Library/Hand/Ash Heap for). > Provided, of course, that all X are controlled by me (or by Methuselahs > who are willing to give them to me). Precisely. [ quoted text not captured ]

> There's no mechanic that forces a trophy put into play via an MPA > actually be awarded, right? Ie, I can put Trophy: Clan Respect into > play and say, "Hey, who wants to burn Kemintiri ADV?", but once someone > does, I can then go, "Neener neener" if I wish, right? > And the Clan is chosen when you put the card into play, so there's probably quite a bit of negotiation regarding which Clan you name.

> There's no mechanic that forces a trophy put into play via an MPA > actually be awarded, right? Ie, I can put Trophy: Clan Respect into > play and say, "Hey, who wants to burn Kemintiri ADV?", but once someone > does, I can then go, "Neener neener" if I wish, right? Is "neener neener" affected by the NRA? Ankur

"Ankur Gupta" <agu...@cs.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.62.05...@peso.cs.duke.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] It's not technically an action, so no. It probably violates the sportsmanship clause, though. :=) [ quoted text not captured ]

Yeah, so instead of "neener neener", just say, "Um... changed my mind."

> Trophy is a new type of master card. As an aside, LSJ, little question on the preview schedule : When a "new rule" is previewed, does it count "like a card" for schedule purposes - in other words, do we have to wait 2 more days now to see the vampire that has better be a Giovanni if you value your immortal Soul ? -- Orpheus -------------------------------- "Zane, Zane, Zane / Lalala Fashion Bip Bip / Oh ! By Jingo" David Bowie, greatest rock lyricist of all times

"Orpheus" <orphe...@ERASERHEADfree.fr> wrote in message news:4207c65f$0$26981$626a...@news.free.fr... > > Trophy is a new type of master card. > > As an aside, LSJ, little question on the preview schedule : When a "new > rule" is previewed, does it count "like a card" for schedule purposes - in > other words, do we have to wait 2 more days now to see the vampire that has > better be a Giovanni if you value your immortal Soul ? http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=130 How about a Nec card instead? Would that satisfy the Pit? [ quoted text not captured ]

"...the controller of the trophy may choose to move the trophy to that vampire. " Can the controller do this at any time? Any turn even? Example: In diablerie can the controller wait to see if the vamp will burn through blood hunt, or is it too late by then?

<adam....@ngc.com> wrote in message news:1107807385.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] It's too late. This is made explicit in the new rulebook. Basically, in the case of diablerie, the Trophies move (and one is retrieved) in the same window as the Discipline card would be retrieved if the victim were older. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 36pvgrF...@individual.net... > "Orpheus" <orphe...@ERASERHEADfree.fr> wrote in message news:4207c65f$0$26981$626a...@news.free.fr... > > > Trophy is a new type of master card. > > > > As an aside, LSJ, little question on the preview schedule : When a "new > > rule" is previewed, does it count "like a card" for schedule purposes - in > > other words, do we have to wait 2 more days now to see the vampire that has > > better be a Giovanni if you value your immortal Soul ? > > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=130 Looks like : no sugar. > How about a Nec card instead? Would that satisfy the Pit? Very temporarily. The last one better be Giovanni !! -------------- Orpheus, proud son of "Don" Antonino Cirri [07/02/1923 - 29/01/2005]

[ quoted text not captured ] Is Baltimore's Purge an action, that torporize vampires? (like Sleep of Reason) If yes, and I've torporized 3 RL-minions, can I go through library and search 3 throphy cards for each of them? sinaath

"sinaath" <sin...@killthis.gmail.com> wrote in message news:tkrmd2-...@tartar.ente.com.pl... > Is Baltimore's Purge an action, that torporize vampires? (like Sleep of > Reason) > If yes, and I've torporized 3 RL-minions, can I go through library and > search 3 throphy cards for each of them? 1) No. 2) Trophy wouldn't care if it was -- burning, not torporizing, is what Trophies look for. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] No. It doesn't burn the minions, and it's not a (D) action.

> 2) Trophy wouldn't care if it was -- burning, not torporizing, is > what Trophies look for. Right, I don't know why did I thought it's enought to torporize.. would be too easy. Sacrificial Lamb or 6th Tradition work fine though? sinaath

"sinaath" <sin...@killthis.gmail.com> wrote in message news:tqtmd2-...@tartar.ente.com.pl... [ quoted text not captured ] When directed, yes. (Sacrificing your own won't do). [ quoted text not captured ]

Different question about Trophy "Trophy: Hunting Ground Action Modifier/Reaction Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during combat. Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion controlled by another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. During your untap phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each turn. " Its stated in the trophy rule that the trophy may not be move off the vampire. Now how do the following cards affect the Trophy when a)it is in play (but no vamp yet) - actually, can this be put in play? Its not a master but a action modifier/reaction. b)when it is on the vamp? c)retrieve from deck/ash heap/hand Blood Trade - (burn all boons, no more boons) Steal hunting ground - (anarch card) Steal location - technically does not state location on the card. But you would think that a hunting ground is a location.

adam.hu...@ngc.com wrote: > Different question about Trophy > > "Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during combat. > Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion controlled by > another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. During your untap > phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can > gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each turn. > " > > Its stated in the trophy rule that the trophy may not be move off the > vampire. > The text you quoted above is likely a playtest version. They probably experimented with making trophies a variety of card types and settled on master. From the Trophy Rule: "Trophy is a new type of master card..." > Now how do the following cards affect the Trophy when > a)it is in play (but no vamp yet) - actually, can this be put in play? If it is a modifier/reaction, then it could not be put into play as a master phase action, no. > Its not a master but a action modifier/reaction. > b)when it is on the vamp? When it's put on a vampire who has burned a red list minion. > c)retrieve from deck/ash heap/hand The red list rule says that you may search your library/ash heap/hand for a "master trophy", so if that card type were accurate, no, it could not be retrieved. > Blood Trade - (burn all boons, no more boons) Trophies are not boons (unless they print one with the boon trait on it in bold). Burning is not the same as moving, however. > Steal hunting ground - (anarch card) I have no idea whether that would work or not. > Steal location - technically does not state location on the card. But > you would think that a hunting ground is a location. If it says 'location' on it, then it's a location. If not, it's not. John

<adam....@ngc.com> wrote in message news:1107890299....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Different question about Trophy > > "Trophy: Hunting Ground > Action Modifier/Reaction > Boon. Hunting Ground. Usable by a tapped vampire. Usable during combat. > Usable only when this vampire burns a Red-List minion controlled by > another Methuselah. Put this card on this vampire. During your untap > phase, this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. A vampire can > gain blood from only 1 Hunting Ground card each turn. > " That is not the official text -- just some preliminary (pre-playtest) text presented to give an example of the flavor of what Trophy cards could be. The official texts should be adequate to addressing the questions you may have about the card, once they are revealed. If not, of course, you know where to come for answers. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 36pvgrF...@individual.net... > "Orpheus" <orphe...@ERASERHEADfree.fr> wrote in message news:4207c65f$0$26981$626a...@news.free.fr... > > > Trophy is a new type of master card. > > > > As an aside, LSJ, little question on the preview schedule : When a "new > > rule" is previewed, does it count "like a card" for schedule purposes - in > > other words, do we have to wait 2 more days now to see the vampire that has > > better be a Giovanni if you value your immortal Soul ? > > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=130 > > How about a Nec card instead? Would that satisfy the Pit? Mmmmm.... I see a Gangrel Antitribe, probably Mitru the Hunter, about to be disclosed... The Nec card better be good, because the Pit is getting closer, my dear Scott ! [ quoted text not captured ]

"Orpheus" <orphe...@ERASERHEADfree.fr> wrote in message news:42092599$0$606$636a...@news.free.fr... > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: > 36pvgrF...@individual.net... > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&articleid=130 > > > > How about a Nec card instead? Would that satisfy the Pit? > > Mmmmm.... > > I see a Gangrel Antitribe, probably Mitru the Hunter, about to be > disclosed... > > The Nec card better be good, because the Pit is getting closer, my dear > Scott ! If it's any consolation, the final preview vampire (still five days away) is almost certainly a Giovanni. If you look at the preview lineup, we had a Baali, a Ravnos, a Follower of Set, an Assamite, a Nosferatu antitribu, and now a Gangrel antitribu. All but the !Nos are mentioned as focal clans of the set. (Obviously the !Nos must indeed have something up their sleeve, or someone in their pocket. ;-) So the Giovanni are the logical missing piece. Incidentally, the preview !Gangrel looks like probably having CEL OBF PRO ani for, maybe 9 capacity, and a moderate amount of text. Whether that fits with Mitru I don't know, though I would slightly prefer to see some more interesting out-of-clan disciplines showing up. :-) As for whether one of the two remaining library cards really will be a Necromancy card, well, might be a Red Herring... Josh watching the dejecteds

Joshua Duffin <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote: : Incidentally, the preview !Gangrel looks like probably having CEL OBF PRO : ani for, maybe 9 capacity, and a moderate amount of text. Whether that fits : with Mitru I don't know, though I would slightly prefer to see some more : interesting out-of-clan disciplines showing up. :-) Makes you want one those image enhancer they always have in movies. One that takes a 10 pixels worth of blur from picture and renders it into a four megapixel photograph of a car licence plate. Or a Jyhad card. //T

> Makes you want one those image enhancer they always have in movies. One > that takes a 10 pixels worth of blur from picture and renders it into a > four megapixel photograph of a car licence plate. Or a Jyhad card. Always been wanting to get my hands on these top FBI - Mulder programs. Like the one which gets an understandable voice from a bunch of sonar rubbish... -- [ quoted text not captured ]