[DECK] Covanant of Blood

Deck Name: Covenant of Blood Created By: Norman S. Brown, Jr. Description: Influence out Nu, The Pillar. Then use Nu, to influence out everyone else with Clotho's Gift and Enchant Kindred. Don't use your influence actions to move blood from your pool to your vampires, but instead spend a pool to see a new vampire. Play multiple Covenant of Blood so that it appears futile to try and burn them. Use your pot weenies to destroy everything in sight and swarm bleed when you can't rush. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 36, Avg: 5.17) ---------------------------------------------- 4 Nu ani aus POT PRE pro TEM 9, True Brujah 1 Jimmy Dunn CEL for POT 4, Pander 1 Hugo POT pre vic 4, Brujah Antitribu 1 Agatha obf POT 4, Nosferatu Antitribu 1 Mitchell obt pot 2, Pander 1 Cameron dom pot 3, Lasombra 1 Tom for pot san 3, Blood Brother 1 Jacob Bragg cel pot 3, Brujah Antitribu 1 Tommy ani pot 3, Nosferatu Antitribu Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (10 cards) 1 Giant's Blood 1 Jake Washington (Hunter) 3 Parthenon, The 1 Powerbase: Montreal 2 Secret Horde 1 Slave Auction 1 Tabriz Assembly Action (30 cards) 3 Ambush 6 Bum's Rush 8 Clotho's Gift 6 Covenant of Blood 7 Enchant Kindred Action Modifier (8 cards) 8 Domain of Evernight Political Action (3 cards) 3 Rumors of Gehenna Combat (38 cards) 4 Disarm 10 Immortal Grapple 4 Pushing the Limit 6 Taste of Vitae 2 Thrown Sewer Lid 8 Torn Signpost 4 Undead Strength Equipment (1 cards) 1 Palatial Estate -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

"XZealot" <x_ze...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<Ksbf9.60421$2L.31...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>... > Deck Name: Covenant of Blood > Created By: Norman S. Brown, Jr. <snip description> > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 36, Avg: 5.17) > ---------------------------------------------- > 4 Nu ani aus POT PRE pro TEM 9, True Brujah > 1 Jimmy Dunn CEL for POT 4, Pander > 1 Hugo POT pre vic 4, Brujah Antitribu > 1 Agatha obf POT 4, Nosferatu Antitribu > 1 Mitchell obt pot 2, Pander > 1 Cameron dom pot 3, Lasombra > 1 Tom for pot san 3, Blood Brother > 1 Jacob Bragg cel pot 3, Brujah Antitribu > 1 Tommy ani pot 3, Nosferatu Antitribu I'd drop Cameron for Paul Dicarlo. You might want to swap out Jimmy Dunn for Sela, which gives you POT/PRE (and the ability to Enchant down if you get Sela out). Might even be able to get away with a !Brujah hunting ground at that point. > Library: (90 cards) > ------------------- > Master (10 cards) > 1 Giant's Blood > 1 Jake Washington (Hunter) > 3 Parthenon, The > 1 Powerbase: Montreal > 2 Secret Horde > 1 Slave Auction > 1 Tabriz Assembly 3 Parthenons and 3 Rumors of Gehenna just to power 1 Slave Auction and 2 Secret Horde? There's gotta be a better way to initiate lifegain... Most of your vampires are gonna come out for free as it is... Maybe some Brothers Grimm and a bunch of Effective Management. You probably want to fit some Fame or Tension in the Ranks in here as well. > Action (30 cards) > 3 Ambush > 6 Bum's Rush > 8 Clotho's Gift > 6 Covenant of Blood > 7 Enchant Kindred Granted, the Covenant is a really cool idea... But... What if your predator/prey/guy you want to hose is not playing Camarilla vamps (a very real possibility)? You'd might want to ditch them for Haven Uncovereds, and adding some cammie weenie potence guys to your crypt. You'd be able to swap in Lupo, Koko and Duck (and Duck can play the Obf outferiors on Gift and Domain). Granted this kills your concept of the deck so test it out with the Covenants. They might work well, seeing as you do have a lot of single-rush actions to suppliment the covenants. Around here, 9 decks out of 10 are Sabbat; I'm using a rather biased view. > Action Modifier (8 cards) > 8 Domain of Evernight > > Political Action (3 cards) > 3 Rumors of Gehenna > > Combat (38 cards) > 4 Disarm > 10 Immortal Grapple > 4 Pushing the Limit > 6 Taste of Vitae > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > 8 Torn Signpost > 4 Undead Strength I could see a whole bunch of Increased Strength fitting in here very well. I'd add a bunch more Undead Strength were that to happen, probably in place of a few signposts. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Snapcase" <capta...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:15337c97.02091...@posting.google.com... > "XZealot" <x_ze...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<Ksbf9.60421$2L.31...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>... > > Deck Name: Covenant of Blood > > Created By: Norman S. Brown, Jr. > > <snip description> > > > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 36, Avg: 5.17) > > ---------------------------------------------- > > 4 Nu ani aus POT PRE pro TEM 9, True Brujah > > 1 Jimmy Dunn CEL for POT 4, Pander > > 1 Hugo POT pre vic 4, Brujah Antitribu > > 1 Agatha obf POT 4, Nosferatu Antitribu > > 1 Mitchell obt pot 2, Pander > > 1 Cameron dom pot 3, Lasombra > > 1 Tom for pot san 3, Blood Brother > > 1 Jacob Bragg cel pot 3, Brujah Antitribu > > 1 Tommy ani pot 3, Nosferatu Antitribu > > I'd drop Cameron for Paul Dicarlo. Already done. Actually, I dropped Tom. But a good idea > You might want to swap out Jimmy Dunn for Sela, which gives you > POT/PRE (and the ability to Enchant down if you get Sela out). Might > even be able to get away with a !Brujah hunting ground at that point. That is quite a leap in size. 50%. Plus that really slows the decks influencing out. > > Library: (90 cards) > > ------------------- > > Master (10 cards) > > 1 Giant's Blood > > 1 Jake Washington (Hunter) > > 3 Parthenon, The > > 1 Powerbase: Montreal > > 2 Secret Horde > > 1 Slave Auction > > 1 Tabriz Assembly > > 3 Parthenons and 3 Rumors of Gehenna just to power 1 Slave Auction and > 2 Secret Horde? There's gotta be a better way to initiate lifegain... > Most of your vampires are gonna come out for free as it is... Maybe > some Brothers Grimm and a bunch of Effective Management. You probably > want to fit some Fame or Tension in the Ranks in here as well. You would be suprised. It works quite well. All that extra pool is gravy. None of that Blood Doll crap. This is especially important Pool Gain that doesn't require your minions to hunt, which is very important in rush decks. Plus, the Rumors can double as generic votes to throw to mess up someones game or save one of your diablerists. > > Action (30 cards) > > 3 Ambush > > 6 Bum's Rush > > 8 Clotho's Gift > > 6 Covenant of Blood > > 7 Enchant Kindred > > Granted, the Covenant is a really cool idea... But... What if your > predator/prey/guy you want to hose is not playing Camarilla vamps (a > very real possibility)? You'd might want to ditch them for Haven > Uncovereds, and adding some cammie weenie potence guys to your crypt. > You'd be able to swap in Lupo, Koko and Duck (and Duck can play the > Obf outferiors on Gift and Domain). Well then you should be playing Imperial Decree deck instead. Know your environment. > Granted this kills your concept of the deck so test it out with the > Covenants. They might work well, seeing as you do have a lot of > single-rush actions to suppliment the covenants. Around here, 9 decks > out of 10 are Sabbat; I'm using a rather biased view. Go with Sheldon laying down a bunch of Imperial decrees instead, or try my Imperial Decree deck which I have listed. > > Action Modifier (8 cards) > > 8 Domain of Evernight > > > > Political Action (3 cards) > > 3 Rumors of Gehenna > > > > Combat (38 cards) > > 4 Disarm > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > 8 Torn Signpost > > 4 Undead Strength > > I could see a whole bunch of Increased Strength fitting in here very > well. I'd add a bunch more Undead Strength were that to happen, > probably in place of a few signposts. Why? Torn Signpost is superior in all ways except suprise factor. > > Equipment (1 cards) > > 1 Palatial Estate [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > Description: Influence out Nu, The Pillar. Then use Nu, to influence out > everyone else with Clotho's Gift and Enchant Kindred. Don't use your > influence actions to move blood from your pool to your vampires, but instead > spend a pool to see a new vampire. Play multiple Covenant of Blood so that > it appears futile to try and burn them. Use your pot weenies to destroy > everything in sight and swarm bleed when you can't rush. Did I hear somebody say "Nu"? Right! > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 11, Max: 36, Avg: 5.17) > ---------------------------------------------- > 4 Nu ani aus POT PRE pro TEM 9, True Brujah > 1 Jimmy Dunn CEL for POT 4, Pander > 1 Hugo POT pre vic 4, Brujah Antitribu > 1 Agatha obf POT 4, Nosferatu Antitribu > 1 Mitchell obt pot 2, Pander > 1 Cameron dom pot 3, Lasombra > 1 Tom for pot san 3, Blood Brother > 1 Jacob Bragg cel pot 3, Brujah Antitribu > 1 Tommy ani pot 3, Nosferatu Antitribu I'd rework the crypt so that I had 6 copies of Nu, and 3/3 Brujah/!Brujah. You can keep the flankers down to 4 cap or less, but I agree with that other guy that Sela's worth it. Yeah yeah, slows you down just a little bit, but it's worth it. And you'll be taking, like, more actions than God with Nu anyway. > Library: (90 cards) > ------------------- > Master (10 cards) > 1 Giant's Blood > 1 Jake Washington (Hunter) > 3 Parthenon, The > 1 Powerbase: Montreal > 2 Secret Horde > 1 Slave Auction > 1 Tabriz Assembly I think you need more ways to put blood back on Nu. I hear you snorting about the Blood Dolls, but you should just swallow your pride, cause we've all seen Pulp Fiction, and pony up to the best mastercard in the game. Check it: Nu spooges blood. Must put blood back on Nu, so in go THESE cards. Blood flows. Play Blood Dolls. Gain pool when it's convenient, never hunt, party all night, never grow old, never die. THESE cards: 2 Tabriz 1 Brujah HG 1 !Brujah HG The Rack 4 Blood Dolls The Coven AND, I'd add Palatial Estate, and maybe Aaron's Feeding Razor. > Action (30 cards) > 3 Ambush > 6 Bum's Rush > 8 Clotho's Gift > 6 Covenant of Blood > 7 Enchant Kindred I'd diversify the number of actions a bit. Otherwise, NRA is gonna getcha. Maybe switch one Clotho's and one Enchant to two Legal Manips. I know it's a theme and all, but I'd drop the CoB to 4. > Action Modifier (8 cards) > 8 Domain of Evernight > > Political Action (3 cards) > 3 Rumors of Gehenna You don't need the extra master phase actions, but 3 Free State's Rant would slot in right here, and you could still ditch them for the votes if need be. > Combat (38 cards) > 4 Disarm > 10 Immortal Grapple > 4 Pushing the Limit > 6 Taste of Vitae > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > 8 Torn Signpost > 4 Undead Strength Eh, combat's too much of a grab bag for me to give any advice. If that's what looks good to you, go for it. I think Kiss of Lachesis and a couple Assault Rifles insure you against drawn-out end-games, but YMMV. David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu

> > You might want to swap out Jimmy Dunn for Sela, which gives you > > POT/PRE (and the ability to Enchant down if you get Sela out). Might > > even be able to get away with a !Brujah hunting ground at that point. > > That is quite a leap in size. 50%. Plus that really slows the decks > influencing out. Not necessarily. You could easily dump 4 blood on her from Nu and use 4 pool/transfers to get her and [insert 2 cap here] out. And then you could double up on the Enchant Kindred actions every turn. > You would be suprised. It works quite well. All that extra pool is gravy. > None of that Blood Doll crap. This is especially important Pool Gain that > doesn't require your minions to hunt, which is very important in rush decks. > Plus, the Rumors can double as generic votes to throw to mess up someones > game or save one of your diablerists. I suppose Rumors is one of those votes that's likely to pass because you can sell it to everyone. Perhaps another Slave Auction over the 2 Secret Hordes? You might be able to get away with ditching some of the extra-master-phase-action gainers, as you'll start gaining pool much earlier than with a Horde. You might want to throw a Coven in here. Doesn't cost a Master phase action, and can get some blood back on Nu (he's gonna be spending quite a bit of it). > Well then you should be playing Imperial Decree deck instead. Know your > environment. Right, but that's a different deck. This deck looks like it will work without the Covenants. It might even be better without them as you won't have to take actions to put them out and won't have to worry about sects. The focus could be Nu getting 4 blood on little vamps and then rushing and/or bleeding everyone. Covenant hasn't been a terribly good card in my experience. > > > Combat (38 cards) > > > 4 Disarm > > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > > 8 Torn Signpost > > > 4 Undead Strength > > > > I could see a whole bunch of Increased Strength fitting in here very > > well. I'd add a bunch more Undead Strength were that to happen, > > probably in place of a few signposts. > > Why? Torn Signpost is superior in all ways except suprise factor. Right, but you need a potence strike card for Increased Strength to work.

"Snapcase" <capta...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:15337c97.02091...@posting.google.com... > > > You might want to swap out Jimmy Dunn for Sela, which gives you > > > POT/PRE (and the ability to Enchant down if you get Sela out). Might > > > even be able to get away with a !Brujah hunting ground at that point. > > > > That is quite a leap in size. 50%. Plus that really slows the decks > > influencing out. > > Not necessarily. You could easily dump 4 blood on her from Nu and use > 4 pool/transfers to get her and [insert 2 cap here] out. And then you > could double up on the Enchant Kindred actions every turn. You are accelerating too fast at that point in time. You are influencing 4 pool onto 2 and 3 cap vampires. It means you have to slow down getting a new vampire from your crypt to transfer pool back off. Plus, Nu is going to be doing it twice each turn anyway (Clotho's gift and Enchant Kindred) > > You would be suprised. It works quite well. All that extra pool is gravy. > > None of that Blood Doll crap. This is especially important Pool Gain that > > doesn't require your minions to hunt, which is very important in rush decks. > > Plus, the Rumors can double as generic votes to throw to mess up someones > > game or save one of your diablerists. > > I suppose Rumors is one of those votes that's likely to pass because > you can sell it to everyone. Perhaps another Slave Auction over the 2 > Secret Hordes? You might be able to get away with ditching some of > the extra-master-phase-action gainers, as you'll start gaining pool > much earlier than with a Horde. Slave Auction is unique. Someone else might play it which would turn your pool gain into "looking for that prayer card." > You might want to throw a Coven in here. Doesn't cost a Master phase > action, and can get some blood back on Nu (he's gonna be spending > quite a bit of it). > > > Well then you should be playing Imperial Decree deck instead. Know your > > environment. > > Right, but that's a different deck. This deck looks like it will work > without the Covenants. It might even be better without them as you > won't have to take actions to put them out and won't have to worry > about sects. The focus could be Nu getting 4 blood on little vamps > and then rushing and/or bleeding everyone. Covenant hasn't been a > terribly good card in my experience. Obviously, since apparently no one plays Cam vampires in your group. I think I have already addressed that, but please continue repeating that point if it makes you feel good. :) > > > > Combat (38 cards) > > > > 4 Disarm > > > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > > > 8 Torn Signpost > > > > 4 Undead Strength > > > > > > I could see a whole bunch of Increased Strength fitting in here very > > > well. I'd add a bunch more Undead Strength were that to happen, > > > probably in place of a few signposts. > > > > Why? Torn Signpost is superior in all ways except suprise factor. > > Right, but you need a potence strike card for Increased Strength to > work. What's the point? Potence strikes stack on top of TS in the exact same manner as IS, but IS is F*CKING USELESS without a potence strike. Plus, you might be killing a weenie deck and don't need the two together but rather the two seprately. [ quoted text not captured ]

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.02091...@petunia.mc.duke.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] That is just poor. Your odds of getting an all Nu crypt are staggering. In my deck if you don't get Nu, then you just fish for him. Sela is worth dogshit in this deck. Trust me. > > Library: (90 cards) > > ------------------- > > Master (10 cards) > > 1 Giant's Blood > > 1 Jake Washington (Hunter) > > 3 Parthenon, The > > 1 Powerbase: Montreal > > 2 Secret Horde > > 1 Slave Auction > > 1 Tabriz Assembly > > I think you need more ways to put blood back on Nu. I hear you snorting > about the Blood Dolls, but you should just swallow your pride, cause we've > all seen Pulp Fiction, and pony up to the best mastercard in the > game. Check it: Nu spooges blood. Must put blood back on Nu, so in go > THESE cards. Blood flows. Play Blood Dolls. Gain pool when it's > convenient, never hunt, party all night, never grow old, never die. Okay, how about the Jake Washington and the Giant's Blood I already have in the deck. These beat the shit out of bleeding yourself to keep Nu manic. > THESE cards: > 2 Tabriz > 1 Brujah HG > 1 !Brujah HG > The Rack > 4 Blood Dolls > The Coven > > AND, I'd add Palatial Estate, and maybe Aaron's Feeding Razor. Hey! Guess what? Palatial Estate is already in the deck. I had to drop the Feeding Razor to get all the combat in. Plus there are all these Tastes of Vitae which work way better than a Feeding Razor. > > > Action (30 cards) > > 3 Ambush > > 6 Bum's Rush > > 8 Clotho's Gift > > 6 Covenant of Blood > > 7 Enchant Kindred > > I'd diversify the number of actions a bit. Otherwise, NRA is gonna > getcha. Maybe switch one Clotho's and one Enchant to two Legal Manips. I > know it's a theme and all, but I'd drop the CoB to 4. 1) Clotho's and Enchant Kindred go like shit through a goose in this deck. 1 each every turn. 2)Covanant of Blood stack so the idea is to discourage people from burning them by having three in play at the same time. > > Action Modifier (8 cards) > > 8 Domain of Evernight > > > > Political Action (3 cards) > > 3 Rumors of Gehenna > > You don't need the extra master phase actions, but 3 Free State's Rant > would slot in right here, and you could still ditch them for the votes if > need be. Okay, let's look at the pool gain. They are Secret Hordes. You need 2+ master phase actions to make them pay off. BTW, Blood Dolls suck in weenie potence decks as your blood dolls make tempting diablerie targets while they are in torpor. > > Combat (38 cards) > > 4 Disarm > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > 8 Torn Signpost > > 4 Undead Strength > > Eh, combat's too much of a grab bag for me to give any advice. If that's > what looks good to you, go for it. I think Kiss of Lachesis and a > couple Assault Rifles insure you against drawn-out end-games, but YMMV. I am going to have to stay away from any big pool investments as alot of it is already tied up. Thanks for the advice. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

"XZealot" <x_ze...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<TRPf9.87423$2L.41...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>... > You are accelerating too fast at that point in time. You are influencing 4 > pool onto 2 and 3 cap vampires. It means you have to slow down getting a > new vampire from your crypt to transfer pool back off. > > Plus, Nu is going to be doing it twice each turn anyway (Clotho's gift and > Enchant Kindred) Fair enough. > Slave Auction is unique. Someone else might play it which would turn your > pool gain into "looking for that prayer card." I keep forgetting it's unique. I guess I never see them played. > Obviously, since apparently no one plays Cam vampires in your group. I > think I have already addressed that, but please continue repeating that > point if it makes you feel good. :) Which leads into the next question: How are the Covenants working out? > Combat (38 cards) > 4 Disarm > 10 Immortal Grapple > 4 Pushing the Limit > 6 Taste of Vitae > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > 8 Torn Signpost > 4 Undead Strength > What's the point? Potence strikes stack on top of TS in the exact same > manner as IS, but IS is F*CKING USELESS without a potence strike. Undead Strength on top of TS for one of your inferior pot guys is 3 damage. Pile a bunch of IS on top of that and Paul Dicarlo can pop one of the big boys right in the face. > Plus, you might be killing a weenie deck and don't need the two together but > rather the two seprately. In which case it doesn't matter if you have lots of TS or US. I guess YMMV (seems to be the mantra around here).

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > > I'd rework the crypt so that I had 6 copies of Nu, and 3/3 > > Brujah/!Brujah. You can keep the flankers down to 4 cap or less, but I > > agree with that other guy that Sela's worth it. Yeah yeah, slows you down > > just a little bit, but it's worth it. And you'll be taking, like, more > > actions than God with Nu anyway. > > That is just poor. Your odds of getting an all Nu crypt are staggering. In > my deck if you don't get Nu, then you just fish for him. Sela is worth > dogshit in this deck. Trust me. Staggering odds -> poor? I think you only have a 3% chance of seeing a crypt full of Nu: 6/12 * 5/11 * 4/10 * 3/9 = 360/11880 =~ 3% If I'm right, then you may want to re-think your implication. On the flip side, there's still a 10% chance of not seeing Nu at all, so 6 seems like a nice number. And it seems odd to me that you'd balk at Sela against the odds of it slowing your deck down, but you are fully prepared to go fish for Nu if you don't see him (which, with four in the deck, is certainly a possibility). You do have some pot/obf, so the Clotho's can bail you out of that by playing them at outferior; in early drafts of my version of this deck, I had Agatha in there for just such an emergency. In the end, she got weeded out based upon blood management issues, and the fact that I'd really like to just go ahead and near-guarantee that I'll see Nu on my opener. I also had more than 10 mastercards and included influence enhancers. > > I think you need more ways to put blood back on Nu. I hear you snorting > > about the Blood Dolls, but you should just swallow your pride, cause we've > > all seen Pulp Fiction, and pony up to the best mastercard in the > > game. Check it: Nu spooges blood. Must put blood back on Nu, so in go > > THESE cards. Blood flows. Play Blood Dolls. Gain pool when it's > > convenient, never hunt, party all night, never grow old, never die. > > Okay, how about the Jake Washington and the Giant's Blood I already have in > the deck. These beat the shit out of bleeding yourself to keep Nu manic. Straw man. I didn't say anything about setting the deck up to bleed yourself. If any handful of the multiple blood engines I'm suggesting engage, you will generally be gaining a slight amount of pool a turn. That you have the option, on a case-by-case basis, to choose to "bleed yourself" to sustain the carnage is flexibility that your approach lacks. Jake's cool, but I don't own him. Giant's Blood is good, too, but for this deck I think I'd choose the cards that put blood on Nu on a continuing basis. If I thought I had room, I'd do both. > Hey! Guess what? Palatial Estate is already in the deck. I had to drop the > Feeding Razor to get all the combat in. Plus there are all these Tastes of > Vitae which work way better than a Feeding Razor. Yeah, I saw the Palatial Estate. I also saw the Tabriz Assembly. I wasn't implying that you lacked all these cards (even though most are missing), I was just telling you what my "Blood gain" package looks like. As I discussed with Colin a while ago, Taste of Vitae is an absolutely solid card, but I've got metagame issues curbing its usefullness. Mind you, I still have four or so in the deck, but I just won't pin all my hopes for keeping Nu healthy on that card (not that you are, either). > 1) Clotho's and Enchant Kindred go like shit through a goose in this deck. > 1 each every turn. > 2)Covanant of Blood stack so the idea is to discourage people from burning > them by having three in play at the same time. Eh. You've got 15 of them total. Realistically, people are just *not* going to step in front of Nu to keep you from gaining two pool, or at least not much. Therefore, imagining "yeah, and then I play this pile of combat cards and cycle into the other one" is a little fallacious. It could be enchant-freak-rush-freak-cycle-freak-clothos, but I'm just telling you, IME, you need to have more distinct action cards, and PRE/TEM gives you a pile of good ones to choose from. > > You don't need the extra master phase actions, but 3 Free State's Rant > > would slot in right here, and you could still ditch them for the votes if > > need be. > > Okay, let's look at the pool gain. They are Secret Hordes. You need 2+ > master phase actions to make them pay off. BTW, Blood Dolls suck in weenie > potence decks as your blood dolls make tempting diablerie targets while they > are in torpor. Yeah, and my premise is "ditch your pool gain and play this pool gain over *here*." Ergo, no need for the extra master phases. Blood dolls do not suck with weenie potence, but I'm not re-iterating the argument. I'd also put two blood dolls on Nu before I'd drop one on a sidekick. > > > Combat (38 cards) > > > 4 Disarm > > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > > 8 Torn Signpost > > > 4 Undead Strength > > > > Eh, combat's too much of a grab bag for me to give any advice. If that's > > what looks good to you, go for it. I think Kiss of Lachesis and a > > couple Assault Rifles insure you against drawn-out end-games, but YMMV. > > I am going to have to stay away from any big pool investments as alot of it > is already tied up. Norm, Norm. Crack kills, man! You *discard* the assault rifles, then Kiss them out of your ash heap for TWO POOL! If anyone else is discarding equipment - an increasing probability these days - you get it for free. On the flip side, you can use it as a +1 stealth action to destroy equipment, allies, and retainers. What's not to like, and where's the "big investment"? And it looks to me like you will be spending 9 for Nu, and then get a bunch of guys out for near-free. Where's the pool getting tied up? > Thanks for the advice. :) No problem. I have played and tweaked this deck a bunch, but I'm sure there are other angles just as good. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > > > I'd rework the crypt so that I had 6 copies of Nu, and 3/3 > > > Brujah/!Brujah. > > Your odds of getting an all Nu crypt are staggering. > Staggering odds -> poor? I think you only have a 3% chance of seeing a > crypt full of Nu: > > 6/12 * 5/11 * 4/10 * 3/9 = 360/11880 =~ 3% > > If I'm right, then you may want to re-think your implication. On the flip > side, there's still a 10% chance of not seeing Nu at all, so 6 seems like > a nice number. Whatever the specific odds, with 6 X (Nu) and 6 Y (non-Nu), you have the same chance of drawing all X in your opening uncontrolled region as you do of drawing all Y. Your calculation is correct, though. You have a 1 in 33 chance of drawing all Nu with 6 Nu in a 12 card crypt - the same odds as drawing no Nu. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

XZealot wrote: > Deck Name: Covenant of Blood > Created By: Norman S. Brown, Jr. > Description: Influence out Nu, The Pillar. Then use Nu, to influence > out everyone else with Clotho's Gift and Enchant Kindred. Don't use > your influence actions to move blood from your pool to your vampires, > but instead spend a pool to see a new vampire. Play multiple Covenant > of Blood so that it appears futile to try and burn them. Use your > pot weenies to destroy everything in sight and swarm bleed when you > can't rush. > > > Action (30 cards) > 3 Ambush > 6 Bum's Rush > 6 Covenant of Blood I can't argue with any of the inclusions in this deck with CE being very common. Cool idea, you seem to be an idea factory. However, when CE gets a little less popular, you will probably want to change the rush cards. In the rare instances where there are no Cam on the table, your deck will still be good. So, I would suggest: 3 Ambush 3 Harass 6 Bum's Rush 2 Nose of the Hound If you notice more defensive decks in your area, you would want to drop 1 Ambush and 1 Harass for some other rush, like Legal Manipulations :). Oh and this gives you two more card slots. I like Fame, but it could be combat also. If you ever run into clumping problems I always put in Dreams and Visit. Your mastercards can't get too high, but since you can use Dreams to get rid of (potentially), 3 master cards, it would still be a good inclusion. Colin Riggs likes less metagaming, being prepared for everything...

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D80AC06...@white-wolf.com... > David Cherryholmes wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > > > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > > > > I'd rework the crypt so that I had 6 copies of Nu, and 3/3 > > > > Brujah/!Brujah. > > > Your odds of getting an all Nu crypt are staggering. > > Staggering odds -> poor? I think you only have a 3% chance of seeing a > > crypt full of Nu: > > > > 6/12 * 5/11 * 4/10 * 3/9 = 360/11880 =~ 3% > > > > If I'm right, then you may want to re-think your implication. On the flip > > side, there's still a 10% chance of not seeing Nu at all, so 6 seems like > > a nice number. > > Whatever the specific odds, with 6 X (Nu) and 6 Y (non-Nu), you have the > same chance of drawing all X in your opening uncontrolled region as you > do of drawing all Y. > > Your calculation is correct, though. You have a 1 in 33 chance of drawing > all Nu with 6 Nu in a 12 card crypt - the same odds as drawing no Nu. that's why i recommend putting either 2 info highway, 3 effective management or 2 recruitement =)

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020912...@petunia.mc.duke.edu... > so 6 seems like a nice number. Hopefully this comes out looking likes a table: % Chance of Drawing __ vampires in your opening crypt if there are (# of copies) copies # Copies None One Two Three Four 1 66.7 33.3 0 0 0 2 42.2 48.5 9.1 0 0 3 25.5 50.9 21.8 1.8 0 4 14.1 45.3 33.9 6.5 0.2 5 7.1 35.4 42.4 14.1 1.0 6 3.0 24.2 45.5 24.2 3.0 Assumptions: 12 vampire crypt It all comes down to your acceptance risk Personally I hate seeing more than one copy of a vamp in the crypt, and go ballistic if I see, three copies. With six vamps you have a 73% chance of seeing more than 1 Nu, 27% chance of seeing either three or four Nu. This is the price you pay for only a 3% chance of Not having Nu. With 5 Nu (7% chance of no Nu) theres only a 15% chance of me going ballistic and 57% total of seeing more than one. At four Nu, you are 14% likely not to see him in the opening crypt, (and if this occurs there is only a 50% chance he'll be your next vamp). 14% is roughly 1:6, or for three round tournaments, it will happen once every second tournament. Meanwhile you're pretty close to seeing only 1 Nu half of the time, and pretty low odds of seeing three. You may have guessed by now I would put 4 in. Putting 3 in usually is max for me but if Nu is Vital to the deck.... Now adding Sela who can also Enchant out weenies, I would tend to go with 3 Nu, 1 Sela, which gives me the odds for 4 Nu (86%) of having a vamp who can accelerate bringing others but only having a 23% chance of seeing more than 1 Nu. (and no chance of seeing 4 Nu) -JTP

> > Obviously, since apparently no one plays Cam vampires in your group. I > > think I have already addressed that, but please continue repeating that > > point if it makes you feel good. :) > > Which leads into the next question: How are the Covenants working out? Well since I have a bunch of newbies in my playgroup who are playing with Cam starters. It is going great! > Undead Strength on top of TS for one of your inferior pot guys is 3 > damage. Pile a bunch of IS on top of that and Paul Dicarlo can pop > one of the big boys right in the face. You should probably just go ahead and disarm them so you can diablerize them. > > Plus, you might be killing a weenie deck and don't need the two together but > > rather the two seprately. > > In which case it doesn't matter if you have lots of TS or US. They sure work great for torporizing pesky weenies and Increased Strength by itself doesn't help at all. [ quoted text not captured ]

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020912...@petunia.mc.duke.edu... > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > > > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > > > > I'd rework the crypt so that I had 6 copies of Nu, and 3/3 > > > Brujah/!Brujah. You can keep the flankers down to 4 cap or less, but I > > > agree with that other guy that Sela's worth it. Yeah yeah, slows you down > > > just a little bit, but it's worth it. And you'll be taking, like, more > > > actions than God with Nu anyway. > > > > That is just poor. Your odds of getting an all Nu crypt are staggering. In > > my deck if you don't get Nu, then you just fish for him. Sela is worth > > dogshit in this deck. Trust me. > > Staggering odds -> poor? I think you only have a 3% chance of seeing a > crypt full of Nu: > > 6/12 * 5/11 * 4/10 * 3/9 = 360/11880 =~ 3% Okay, but when that happens in your deck and you have to go fish for a vampire there is still a 25% chance that the next vampire you get will be a Nu. In my deck, you are guaranteed a weenie. Also what are your odds of getting a 3 Nu crypt, which is still pretty bad? > If I'm right, then you may want to re-think your implication. On the flip > side, there's still a 10% chance of not seeing Nu at all, so 6 seems like > a nice number. And it seems odd to me that you'd balk at Sela against the > odds of it slowing your deck down, but you are fully prepared to go fish > for Nu if you don't see him (which, with four in the deck, is certainly a > possibility). You do have some pot/obf, so the Clotho's can bail you out > of that by playing them at outferior; in early drafts of my version of > this deck, I had Agatha in there for just such an emergency. In the end, > she got weeded out based upon blood management issues, and the fact that > I'd really like to just go ahead and near-guarantee that I'll see Nu on my > opener. I also had more than 10 mastercards and included influence > enhancers. Here's the converse to that. If I don't see a Nu in my opening crypt, then I can just come out with a bunch of weenies. That seems to work. But, if I put Sela in the deck and draw her and 3 weenies then I haven't realy gained any efficiency other than a title. > > > I think you need more ways to put blood back on Nu. I hear you snorting > > > about the Blood Dolls, but you should just swallow your pride, cause we've > > > all seen Pulp Fiction, and pony up to the best mastercard in the > > > game. Check it: Nu spooges blood. Must put blood back on Nu, so in go > > > THESE cards. Blood flows. Play Blood Dolls. Gain pool when it's > > > convenient, never hunt, party all night, never grow old, never die. > > > > Okay, how about the Jake Washington and the Giant's Blood I already have in > > the deck. These beat the shit out of bleeding yourself to keep Nu manic. > > Straw man. How is that a straw man? Nu burns up blood in this deck like a crackhead hitting the pipe. Once he gets his first Clotho's gift at superior, he should be burning 2 blood and getting 3-4 actions out per turn. This is not including combat damage. That is alot. You are saying that blood dolls are the answer. If you use these to refuel Nu then you are bleeding yourself for 2 per turn. If you are saying that you use these as pool gain, then you are going to empty Nu twice as fast and not get the results that you want with this deck (i.e. Nu being empty). I didn't say anything about setting the deck up to bleed > yourself. That is what Blood Dolls do in this deck. They bleed you to keep Nu running or you are tapping minions to hunt after you have pulled blood off of them when you should be rushing with them. If any handful of the multiple blood engines I'm > suggesting engage, you will generally be gaining a slight amount of pool a > turn. That you have the option, on a case-by-case basis, to choose to > "bleed yourself" to sustain the carnage is flexibility that your approach > lacks. I just don't think it is the right approach for this deck. As a combat deck, you never want to run into a master hand jam this deck addresses that issue. As a deck with 33 actions (including political actions) there is a reasonable amount of minions and untaps which let you perform at least 3 actions on your fourth turn and in theory 1 additional action cumutavely for each turn thereafter as you add minions. So I have created a progression of 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 actions per turn. This should manage to keep out of trouble with the plethorah of actions in this deck. >Jake's cool, but I don't own him. You should. He is great for blood gain, especially in a deck where you will control if and when you run out of blood. Giant's Blood is good, too, but > for this deck I think I'd choose the cards that put blood on Nu on a > continuing basis. Blood Dolls will kill you dead in this deck if you think you are going to fuel Nu with them. >If I thought I had room, I'd do both. BING! This is the entire point. There is a finite amount of room in this deck. For rush combat an investment system may be better than a blood doll system because you really don't want your minions going to torpor unless someone is playing a "I hit harder than you do deck", and if you do run into that deck you don't want your blood dolls going to torpor, where they make great targets for diablerie and graverobbing. > > Hey! Guess what? Palatial Estate is already in the deck. I had to drop the > > Feeding Razor to get all the combat in. Plus there are all these Tastes of > > Vitae which work way better than a Feeding Razor. > > Yeah, I saw the Palatial Estate. I also saw the Tabriz Assembly. I > wasn't implying that you lacked all these cards (even though most are > missing), I was just telling you what my "Blood gain" package looks > like. As I discussed with Colin a while ago, Taste of Vitae is an > absolutely solid card, but I've got metagame issues curbing its > usefullness. Mind you, I still have four or so in the deck, but I just > won't pin all my hopes for keeping Nu healthy on that card (not that you > are, either). > > > > 1) Clotho's and Enchant Kindred go like shit through a goose in this deck. > > 1 each every turn. > > 2)Covanant of Blood stack so the idea is to discourage people from burning > > them by having three in play at the same time. > > Eh. You've got 15 of them total. Realistically, people are just *not* > going to step in front of Nu to keep you from gaining two pool, or at > least not much. Therefore, imagining "yeah, and then I play this pile of > combat cards and cycle into the other one" is a little fallacious. Did you notice the large amount of enter combat cards in this deck. There are 15. 6 of which are burnable permanents. It > could be enchant-freak-rush-freak-cycle-freak-clothos, but I'm just > telling you, IME, you need to have more distinct action cards, and PRE/TEM > gives you a pile of good ones to choose from. True, but you shouldn't get distract by cards that don't help you. Legal Manupulation is a great closer but it is garbage in this deck because it is going to be blocked. Also, isn't a free minion that bleeds for one better in the long run than a +2 bleed. > > > You don't need the extra master phase actions, but 3 Free State's Rant > > > would slot in right here, and you could still ditch them for the votes if > > > need be. > > > > Okay, let's look at the pool gain. They are Secret Hordes. You need 2+ > > master phase actions to make them pay off. BTW, Blood Dolls suck in weenie > > potence decks as your blood dolls make tempting diablerie targets while they > > are in torpor. > > Yeah, and my premise is "ditch your pool gain and play this pool gain over > *here*." Ergo, no need for the extra master phases. Blood dolls do not > suck with weenie potence, but I'm not re-iterating the argument. I'd also > put two blood dolls on Nu before I'd drop one on a sidekick. I addressed this above with the whole bleeding one's self to fuel Nu. You are going to be burning 2 blood off of Nu per turn, if you think to do that with pool will help you win, then you go for it. I just don't see that as a winning scenario. > > > > Combat (38 cards) > > > > 4 Disarm > > > > 10 Immortal Grapple > > > > 4 Pushing the Limit > > > > 6 Taste of Vitae > > > > 2 Thrown Sewer Lid > > > > 8 Torn Signpost > > > > 4 Undead Strength > > > > > > Eh, combat's too much of a grab bag for me to give any advice. If that's > > > what looks good to you, go for it. I think Kiss of Lachesis and a > > > couple Assault Rifles insure you against drawn-out end-games, but YMMV. > > > > I am going to have to stay away from any big pool investments as alot of it > > is already tied up. But how many do you have to pack to make sure you get them when you need them and they aren't some prayer card. Also, what are you going to get rid of to make room for this, because if you strip anymore out of the potence combat package than I already have then it won't work. > Norm, Norm. Crack kills, man! You *discard* the assault rifles, then > Kiss them out of your ash heap for TWO POOL! If anyone else is discarding > equipment - an increasing probability these days - you get it for > free. On the flip side, you can use it as a +1 stealth action to destroy > equipment, allies, and retainers. What's not to like, and where's the > "big investment"? And it looks to me like you will be spending 9 for Nu, > and then get a bunch of guys out for near-free. Where's the pool getting > tied up? I just see it as card slots that are currently occupied by cards that help all my vamps not just one. > > Thanks for the advice. :) > > No problem. I have played and tweaked this deck a bunch, but I'm sure > there are other angles just as good. Cool, I hope to see it soon. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, XZealot a.k.a "Big Daddy" wrote: > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > Okay, but when that happens in your deck and you have to go fish for a > vampire there is still a 25% chance that the next vampire you get will be a > Nu. In my deck, you are guaranteed a weenie. > > Also what are your odds of getting a 3 Nu crypt, which is still pretty bad? No it isn't. I mean, it isn't ideal, but my approach has been that Nu can run this deck all by himself. Somewhere along the way I'll pick up a punk as an insurance policy in case I need to fling him in front of something terminal aimed at Nu. That's all worst-case, hot-channel analysis. In almost all games, it'll be Nu and one or two other guys. These two guys will likely be Brujah/!Brujah weiners, with a slight chance of getting Sela. You could get colossally screwed by probability, sure, but that's true of any crypt or library you care to construct. > Here's the converse to that. If I don't see a Nu in my opening crypt, then > I can just come out with a bunch of weenies. That seems to work. But, if I > put Sela in the deck and draw her and 3 weenies then I haven't realy gained > any efficiency other than a title. That's probably better than a lone, naked, Nu. But then you're playing a lot of games as a potence weenie deck. Say you get four guys and no Nu. I'll spot you that Nu is the next guy face down, even though that's only fifty-fifty with your deck (4 Nu, eight cards left). So you get a guy out first turn. You now have one potence weenie. Turn two, that punk plays Clotho's gift to yank Nu to your uncontrolled region. On turn five, you get Nu, and in the meantime you are trying to stay alive with one potence weenie. So, if you want to play weenie potence with fair shot at putting Nu into play, go your route. My route is going to get me Nu 97% of the time, and sometimes I'll get him up on turn two. > > > the deck. These beat the shit out of bleeding yourself to keep Nu > > Straw man. > > How is that a straw man? Nu burns up blood in this deck like a crackhead > hitting the pipe. Once he gets his first Clotho's gift at superior, he > should be burning 2 blood and getting 3-4 actions out per turn. This is not > including combat damage. That is alot. You are saying that blood dolls are > the answer. If you use these to refuel Nu then you are bleeding yourself > for 2 per turn. If you are saying that you use these as pool gain, then you > are going to empty Nu twice as fast and not get the results that you want > with this deck (i.e. Nu being empty). It's a straw man because the main aim is to set up several distinct sources of blood generation for Nu: The Rack, Tabriz, two hunting grounds, palatial estate, taste of vitae. This blood will enable Nu to keep acting. There may be the occasional turn where Nu does not act, as much, or turns on which you just choose to forego spending blood off Nu in order to convert that to pool. The blood dolls enable you to do this, with blood you've already devoted card slots to generating for entirely unrelated reasons. That you can also choose to "bleed yourself", which may be the differnce between playing a Lapse, or a Clotho's down, or whatever, is a secondary benefit, and one your deck lacks even the option to employ. > I didn't say anything about setting the deck up to bleed > > yourself. > > That is what Blood Dolls do in this deck. They bleed you to keep Nu running > or you are tapping minions to hunt after you have pulled blood off of them > when you should be rushing with them. That's what you are *asserting* the blood dolls do in this deck. See above for my (more) complete description of the purpose of Blood Dolls here. > Blood Dolls will kill you dead in this deck if you think you are going to > fuel Nu with them. Right, but I don't. I can do that as a back up plan if I wish, though. > > Yeah, and my premise is "ditch your pool gain and play this pool gain over > > *here*." Ergo, no need for the extra master phases. Blood dolls do not > > suck with weenie potence, but I'm not re-iterating the argument. I'd also > > put two blood dolls on Nu before I'd drop one on a sidekick. > > I addressed this above with the whole bleeding one's self to fuel Nu. You > are going to be burning 2 blood off of Nu per turn, if you think to do that > with pool will help you win, then you go for it. I just don't see that as a > winning scenario. As we've seen, false premise. I want to have about three blood going onto Nu a turn. For ease of analysis, let's just pretend that Taste of Vitae will not gain you any blood, but in reality that would be another source. I have 2 Tabriz, 2 Racks, 2 HGs, and one Palatial Estate to try to hit this goal, so I'd call it achievable (and experience bears this out). With two blood dolls on Nu, I can gain one pool every turn, or two pool every turn if I scale back Nu. There are plenty of turns where Nu + Domain of Evernight is going to achieve your objective, so this can and does happen. The pool gain can, if you choose to shift your focus from offense to defense, scale up with the number of blood dolls you place on Nu. My first response to any overly-favorable assumptions I may have made with this analysis will be to re-account for the missing Taste of Vitae blood. > But how many do you have to pack to make sure you get them when you need > them and they aren't some prayer card. Also, what are you going to get rid > of to make room for this, because if you strip anymore out of the potence > combat package than I already have then it won't work. The point is not to get to an Assault Rifle quickly, but to get to an Assault Rifle *eventually*. As in, before you've run out of cards and your deck falls over, since it's a combat deck and you can't do squat without combat cards. In order to *eventually* see one, I guess you'd need to include two cards... one rifle, and one Kiss. Since it's just possible that you may be blocked, on the Kiss action, I'd up it to one rifle and two Kisses. That's three cards, and now you don't have to worry (as much) about drawn-out endgames. The HG/Rack/whatever approach also insulates you against protracted games, incidently. > I just see it as card slots that are currently occupied by cards that help > all my vamps not just one. This is true, although anyone can go get the Assault rifle after Nu pays for it on the cheap. I'd just say that the cost-benefit on this one pans out. > > No problem. I have played and tweaked this deck a bunch, but I'm sure > > there are other angles just as good. > > Cool, I hope to see it soon. Yeah, I'd've liked to tear some stuff up with it during WoN, but I'm currently developing Synesios/Settites and I can't keep them both built at once. [ quoted text not captured ]

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.02091...@petunia.mc.duke.edu... > On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, XZealot a.k.a "Big Daddy" wrote: > > > "David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message > > > Okay, but when that happens in your deck and you have to go fish for a > > vampire there is still a 25% chance that the next vampire you get will be a > > Nu. In my deck, you are guaranteed a weenie. > > > > Also what are your odds of getting a 3 Nu crypt, which is still pretty bad? > > No it isn't. I mean, it isn't ideal, but my approach has been that Nu can > run this deck all by himself. *Bing* I think we are talking about two different decks. I would hope that Nu is never alone in this deck as 1/6 of the deck is dedicated to pulling out younger vampires. Apparently we are talking about two very different decks. This deck influences out a group of 5 or six vamps for the cost of Nu and one pool to bring them out of your crypt. Somewhere along the way I'll pick up a punk > as an insurance policy in case I need to fling him in front of something > terminal aimed at Nu. That's all worst-case, hot-channel analysis. In > almost all games, it'll be Nu and one or two other guys. These two guys > will likely be Brujah/!Brujah weiners, with a slight chance of getting > Sela. You could get colossally screwed by probability, sure, but that's > true of any crypt or library you care to construct. See this deck expects to have 6 or 7 guys out. I think you are missing the point. Also Brujah don't work in this deck as they can not take advantage of the Covenant of Blood. > > Here's the converse to that. If I don't see a Nu in my opening crypt, then > > I can just come out with a bunch of weenies. That seems to work. But, if I > > put Sela in the deck and draw her and 3 weenies then I haven't realy gained > > any efficiency other than a title. > > That's probably better than a lone, naked, Nu. But then you're playing a > lot of games as a potence weenie deck. Say you get four guys and no > Nu. I'll spot you that Nu is the next guy face down, even though that's > only fifty-fifty with your deck (4 Nu, eight cards left). So you get a > guy out first turn. You now have one potence weenie. Turn two, that punk > plays Clotho's gift to yank Nu to your uncontrolled region. On turn five, > you get Nu, and in the meantime you are trying to stay alive with one > potence weenie. So, if you want to play weenie potence with fair shot at > putting Nu into play, go your route. My route is going to get me Nu 97% > of the time, and sometimes I'll get him up on turn two. but you will never have 6 or 7 vampires in play without going to the bottom of your crypt, and you will have wasted alot of pool on seeing brand new Nu, which you already have in play. > It's a straw man because the main aim is to set up several distinct > sources of blood generation for Nu: The Rack, Tabriz, two hunting > grounds, palatial estate, taste of vitae. Now you have added The Rack, and two hunting grounds to this deck as well as how many blood dolls? Where are you getting this space in the above deck? <snip what you can do with all this extra blood> > > Blood Dolls will kill you dead in this deck if you think you are going to > > fuel Nu with them. > > Right, but I don't. I can do that as a back up plan if I wish, though. Then Nu is empty on turn 7. What will you do with him now? > > > Yeah, and my premise is "ditch your pool gain and play this pool gain over > > > *here*." Ergo, no need for the extra master phases. Blood dolls do not > > > suck with weenie potence, but I'm not re-iterating the argument. I'd also > > > put two blood dolls on Nu before I'd drop one on a sidekick. > > > > I addressed this above with the whole bleeding one's self to fuel Nu. You > > are going to be burning 2 blood off of Nu per turn, if you think to do that > > with pool will help you win, then you go for it. I just don't see that as a > > winning scenario. > > As we've seen, false premise. I want to have about three blood going onto > Nu a turn. For ease of analysis, let's just pretend that Taste of Vitae > will not gain you any blood, but in reality that would be another > source. I have 2 Tabriz, 2 Racks, 2 HGs, and one Palatial Estate to try > to hit this goal, so I'd call it achievable (and experience bears this > out). In this deck? Where do you find the room for 5 additional Master cards? Especially two that require a clan that Nu is not. . > > > No problem. I have played and tweaked this deck a bunch, but I'm sure > > > there are other angles just as good. You are certainly not talking about the deck I posted. Why don't you post your own deck so that I can see what you are talking about. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, XZealot wrote: > *Bing* I think we are talking about two different decks. I would hope that > See this deck expects to have 6 or 7 guys out. I think you are missing the > point. Also Brujah don't work in this deck as they can not take advantage > of the Covenant of Blood. Well, the decks are different to a degree. My crypt has 9/12 vampires able to benefit from the Convenant, though, so it's not a *radical* departure from what you're trying to do. > but you will never have 6 or 7 vampires in play without going to the bottom > of your crypt, and you will have wasted alot of pool on seeing brand new Nu, > which you already have in play. But in this respect, they are different decks. I aim to have Nu do most the work. It looks to me like Nu's primary role in your deck is to bring out weenies for free and put Covenant of Blood into play. > Now you have added The Rack, and two hunting grounds to this deck as well as > how many blood dolls? Where are you getting this space in the above deck? > <snip what you can do with all this extra blood> You get the space by dropping most of the mastercards you've chosen and going with ones that I think work better. You seem to disagree point for point on those choices, but space isn't really an issue. I'm certainly aware of the finite number of slots available in any given deck. > > Right, but I don't. I can do that as a back up plan if I wish, though. > > Then Nu is empty on turn 7. What will you do with him now? WTF? I'll try it again. Nu gets three blood a turn. You pull one off with a Blood Doll. Nu nets two blood a turn. How is he empty? If I'm pushing two or three blood onto Nu, as my only way to keep him moderately full of blood, then the deck has suffered multiple-point failure. Every deck sucks under those conditions. With multiple blood dolls, I can smoothly shift along a spectrum: active/gain one<---->passive/gain three. > > As we've seen, false premise. I want to have about three blood going onto > > Nu a turn. For ease of analysis, let's just pretend that Taste of Vitae > > will not gain you any blood, but in reality that would be another > > source. I have 2 Tabriz, 2 Racks, 2 HGs, and one Palatial Estate to try > > to hit this goal, so I'd call it achievable (and experience bears this > > out). > > In this deck? Where do you find the room for 5 additional Master cards? > Especially two that require a clan that Nu is not. . By dropping 7 mastercards you don't need. Like Secret Horde and supporting cast. The two HG's go with the 3 Brujah and 3 !Brujah. I also think it's worth risking a little MC clumping and playing more than ten mastercards. > You are certainly not talking about the deck I posted. Why don't you post > your own deck so that I can see what you are talking about. Of course I'm talking about the deck you posted. I'm just suggesting changes you don't agree with, which is fine. My setup would give you 9/12 of your crypt that can use Covenant of Blood, and better pool management. You'd lose in number of minions active on the table, but in return there'd be a heavier focus on Nu, meaning stronger actions, and a comperable number of total actions per turn. I'll pull my decklist from ELDB when I get home and post it, 'cause I'm lazy. ;) BTW, congrats again, daddy-o. [ quoted text not captured ]