Ideas for Dementation cards

I feel that Demenation is a pretty limited discipline. The whole idea behind the discipline in VtES seems to be debilitating your opponents, with the 3 bleed cards grafted on to give the Malkavians a standard deck strategy. But as it is you really only see the 3 bleed cards played with any regularity and the other debilitating cards limited to trick decks. I'd like to remedy that giving Dementation interesting cards to include in standard Dementation decks and some cards to potentially be the focus of new deck concepts. Or, if it's going to retain the bleed aspect give it more bleed cards because playing with the same 3(4) gets tiresome. Anyway, here are some ideas for new Dementation cards: Seed of Insanity Action [dem] Bleed at +1 bleed. [DEM] As above, and if these bleed is successful give this card to the bled methuselah. A methuselah with this card has 1 fewer master phase action per master phase. Burn this card during that methuselah’s next discard phase. Strength from Madness Action 2 blood [dem] Bleed at +1 bleed. [DEM] As above, and if this bleed is successful put this card on the acting minion and move an amount of blood from the blood bank to this card equal to the amount of the bleed. A minion with this card may burn it during its controller’s untap phase to gain the blood on this card. A minion may only have 1 Strength from Madness. Phantom Voices Combat [dem] Maneuver [DEM] As above, and the minion playing this card may burn 1 blood to prevent the opposing minion from striking with a weapon this round. Hallucination Reaction Only useable by a vampire about to enter combat with an acting minion [dem] This minion may cancel an opposing minion’s maneuver or press during the resulting combat. [DEM] Damage inflicted by the opposing minion during the initial strike phase of the first round of the resulting combat is reduced to zero. Imaginary Friend Action Modifier / Combat [dem] Only usable when a minion is attempting to block this acting vampire. The blocking minion gets -1 intercept. [DEM] Play before range is determined on the first round of combat. This card represents a retainer with 1 life and 0 strength that may use a weapon not used by the employing minion (or another retainer) that round (either before or after). This is not a strike, although it does count as using the weapon. Burn the Imaginary Friend at the end of combat.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hey I got one Retard Strong Action 1 blood [dem]Put this card on a ally or younger vampire this vampire cannot take political actions or vote in referendums, This vampire has -1 stealth and -1 bleed. this vampire has +1 strength a minion may burn this card as a d action. tap this vampire when this card is burned [DEM] as above but +2 Strength

On May 16, 2:26 am, smithheroldson <raymondcharn...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hey I got one > Retard Strong I think I'm not understanding this card title. -Peter

Look what they did to Dominate to address the same boredom of stealth Govern/Conditioning. Now DOM has burn allies as a strike, give any minion more bleed, etc. Great. I want every discipline to evolve with some balance but DEM started what could be new archetype of "you guys fight" actions with Lunatic Eruption (see Taunt the Caged Beast) ...the current DEM actions that are not bleeds are expensive, temporary, and limited, yes, but we have a guy in our group with a steal blood/ Sleep of Reason deck that works pretty good. Also, now that DEM is spreading rather thickly to the Ravnos, you'll be giving them sharper sticks to poke with. There's lots to to with DEM, and as long as we get new things to do besides bleed for any discipline, VTES will continue as a great strategy game. Just don't give them every tool in the box. We see a lot of Kindred Spirits because it's a damn good card.

[ quoted text not captured ] It would be great if Dem gave those Ravnos a way to survive. Like a reduce bleed or a bloat card. Trouble is that weenie Dem is already powerful enough, if it can react or bloat too we would make it too powerful (regular Dem can deflect so it wouldn't be grounbdreaking for them). So maybe some variant on intercept / enter combat... Orpheus

Orpheus <orpheus....@free.fr> wrote: >It would be great if Dem gave those Ravnos a way to survive. Like a reduce >bleed or a bloat card. Though not exactly that, Touch of Clarity can be used in that fashion. It shuts down the most important bounce card, and it shuts down quite a few important bleed cards. That you can use it offensively - to shut down your prey's Dominate bleed bounce, for example - is nice too. It's not perfect or 100% reliable, but it's not a bad option. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On 17 touko, 13:19, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote: > It would be great if Dem gave those Ravnos a way to survive. Like a reduce > bleed Yeah, something like a reaction that reduces a bleed by two at inferior dem and gives oh, let's say 4 votes at DEM to make it versatile. Maybe at the cost of one blood. Would totally like to see something like that.

[ quoted text not captured ] It being Dementation, it would seem more in-theme to screw up someone else's votes. Something like: Edge of Insanity Reaction, 1 blood [dem] Reduce a bleed against you by two. [DEM] Usable during the referendum of a political action. The acting minion has four fewer votes for the rest of the action. While not identical, it would allow you to defend against the more annoying vote decks in much the same way - Ventrue Law Firm with Bewitching Oration is typically casting 4-6 votes with the acting minion, anything with Awe/Voter Cap is typically casting 5+. And it seems to fit Dementation better and is a bit more unusual. [ quoted text not captured ]

On May 17, 7:51 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > suoliruse...@gmail.com wrote: > >On 17 touko, 13:19, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote: > >> It would be great if Dem gave those Ravnos a way to survive. Like a reduce > >> bleed > > >Yeah, something like a reaction that reduces a bleed by two at > >inferior dem and gives oh, let's say 4 votes at DEM to make it > >versatile. Maybe at the cost of one blood. Would totally like to see > >something like that. > > It being Dementation, it would seem more in-theme to screw up someone > else's votes. Something like: > > Edge of Insanity > Reaction, 1 blood > [dem] Reduce a bleed against you by two. > [DEM] Usable during the referendum of a political action. The acting > minion has four fewer votes for the rest of the action. > > While not identical, it would allow you to defend against the more > annoying vote decks in much the same way - Ventrue Law Firm with > Bewitching Oration is typically casting 4-6 votes with the acting > minion, anything with Awe/Voter Cap is typically casting 5+. And it > seems to fit Dementation better and is a bit more unusual. I don't get the newsgroup these days, it seems... But you're joking now, right?

[ quoted text not captured ] Not particularly - but I had forgotten about Wrong and Crosswise's existence, as I don't own any KoT. I'd still personally prefer that Dementation was a bit more "screw someone else" than "make me better". [ quoted text not captured ]

On May 17, 9:29 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >I don't get the newsgroup these days, it seems... But you're joking > >now, right? > > Not particularly - but I had forgotten about Wrong and Crosswise's > existence, as I don't own any KoT. Close enough. Your post looked very sincere, but the one you replied to struck me as rather ironic (here I go again with that word). > I'd still personally prefer that Dementation was a bit more "screw > someone else" than "make me better". Yeah, I agree that your suggestion could've been more fitting for a Dementation card though, but printing that one now would be weird.

On May 17, 4:33 pm, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > Close enough. Your post looked very sincere, but the one you replied > to struck me as rather ironic (here I go again with that word). Yeah, see, I don't think James's post was "ironic" either. Perhaps that word doesn't mean what you think it means? -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Not sure where you're going at all now. I said that the post James replied to struck me as ironic. And I meant ironic as in ~sarcastic.

On May 17, 6:46 pm, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure where you're going at all now. > I said that the post James replied to struck me as ironic. And I meant > ironic as in ~sarcastic. I was just pointing out that it is possible that "ironic" doesn't mean what you think it means. Which would explain some things :-) -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] It's possible you don't know what it means as well. That'd explain as much. But are you saying that souliruse's post wasn't ironic/sarcastic?

On May 17, 6:57 pm, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's possible you don't know what it means as well. That'd explain as > much. That is certainly possible. But as I am a native English speaker and you (as far as I am aware) are not, that you would misunderstand the word makes sense. > But are you saying that souliruse's post wasn't ironic/sarcastic? Ah, yeah, ok. See, I thought you were saying that *James's* post was ironic. All makes sense now. Never mind. -Peter

On May 18, 12:04 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > It's possible you don't know what it means as well. That'd explain as > > much. > > That is certainly possible. But as I am a native English speaker and > you (as far as I am aware) are not, that you would misunderstand the > word makes sense. Fair enough. I think the truth lies somewhere along with words having more than one meaning, and us just using different ones. > > But are you saying that souliruse's post wasn't ironic/sarcastic? > > Ah, yeah, ok. See, I thought you were saying that *James's* post was > ironic. All makes sense now. Never mind. I know you thought that with your first reply here, that's why I clarified it for you.

You guys remind me of a comic from Irregular Webcomic. Paraphrased: Je: I hear the head of the Irony Department is a frog. Xe: 'ow appropriate. Je: Huh? It might be appropriate if that was somehow actually ironc. But it isn't. Xe: And yet, ironically, it is, guv...

On May 17, 7:27 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Je: I hear the head of the Irony Department is a frog. > Xe: 'ow appropriate. > Je: Huh? It might be appropriate if that was somehow actually ironc. But it isn't. > Xe: And yet, ironically, it is, guv... Heh. Kind of like rain on your wedding day. Or something. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Or a free ride, when you've already paid... But I would kind of like to see the disciplines head down their "thematics" paths a bit more. Inspired Madness Action/Reaction [dem][Reaction] This minion gains +1 intercept. [DEM][Action] +1 stealth. Untap a vampire with [dem] controlled by any Methuselah. (Shame Malks come with Aus already... most Malks probably won't like this card) Aura of Delusion Action Mod Only usable when declaring an action. Not usable on a bleed action. [dem][pre] Allies cannot block this action [DEM][PRE] Younger vampires must burn 1 blood before combat when blocking this action. "Then we snuck in all quiet-like..." "Yeah, quiet, like a fish." - Chicken Run Zombie Mausoleum Unique Master. Location. 2 pool Any vampire with [nec] may take a +1 stealth action, costing 1 blood, to remove from the game an ally or retainer any ash heap. Use that removed card to represent a non-unique Zombie ally with 1 strength 2 life 0 bleed and may take a (D) action to enter combat with a minion controlled by your predator or prey. These zombie allies may not take actions other than to enter combat with a minion controlled by your predator or prey.

Dementation is the "screw the rules of the game, let chaos reign!" discipline. I.E. Kindred Spirits breaks the bleeding rules which is what makes it so good. Coma breaks the combat rules (go directly to torpor!). The discipline is about insight, about seeing the game in a different light, to see the world through a shattered mirror. So here are some of my ideas: I like the Dementation political modifier/ reaction idea so: Voter Bewilderment Action Modifier/ Reaction Only usable during a political action. [dem] Reaction: Play with a different title political action card from your hand and declare the terms if any. If the current vote fails, immediately pass this vote. [DEM} Modifier: As above. Also, more prank cards! Playing Dead Reaction [dem] Play before a vampire would rescue this vampire from torpor. This vampire diablerizes the rescuing vampire instead. [DEM] Play after a vampire rescues this vampire from torpor. You gain control of the rescuing vampire. The Methuselah who controlled the rescuing vampire gains control of this vampire. Insuing Halarity Combat Cannot be used during combat involving your minions. [dem] As 2 minions are entering combat, each Methuselah involved shows you their hand. You may discard a non combat card from each hand and replace the card with a combat card from that Methuselah's ash heap. [DEM] As above, but you may discard and replace any number of non combat cards from each hand. Self Delusion Action +1 Stealth. [dem] Put this card in play. It acts as an additional edge. Whenever a player would get the edge they may choose which edge to gain. [DEM] As above, but when this card is burned it returns to play and you gain it as an edge. Change the Rules Action +1 Stealth. Put this card in play. [dem] Players don't gain a pool during their upkeep if they have the edge. Instead they may burn the edge to gain 1 pool. [DEM] As above, and players can't burn the edge to gain a vote during referendums. Instead the player who controls the edge gains 1 vote during all referendums. Less Confusion Action +1 Stealth. Put this card in play. [dem] Players read the word "younger" as older and "older" as younger. [DEM] Players read the word "more" as less and "less" as more. Malks Can't Do Anything Action +1 Stealth. Put this card in play. [dem] Players read the word "can" as can not, "can not" as can, "may" as may not and "may not" as may. [DEM] Players read positive numbers on card text as negative numbers and negative numbers as positive numbers. Or Dementation effects that replace the current rules. For instance perhaps a dementation that replaces the normal transfer rules with different transfer rules.

[ quoted text not captured ] Playing Dead (v2) Reaction/Action Modifier 1 blood Only usable during an action to rescue a vampire from torpor. Only usable if this vampire is acting, or is the target of the rescue action. [dem] If this rescue is successful, the acting minion must burn 1 blood to untap during their next untap phase. [DEM] If this rescue is unblocked, the acting vampire spends no blood and goes to torpor and the target vampire is placed in the ready region. Clown Masks for Everybody! Master out-of-turn Trifle. Requires: Malk/!Malk Only usable before combat between two minions you do not control. Tap a Malkavian or Malkavian-antitribbu you control. For each minion about to enter combat, choose another minion controlled by the same Methuselah. These chosen minions are now considered to be the acting and blocking minions, are tapped and now enter combat instead. Untap the original acting and blocking minions. Deranged Exposition Action Modifier/Reaction 1 blood Only useable during a political action. [dem][Reaction] Tap this vampire to cause the acting vampire to abstain from casting votes in this referendum. [DEM] Usable after votes have been counted. You may re-state the terms of this referendum. If the vote was passing before playing this card, it still passes and vice versa.

jiazhou...@gmail.com wrote: > Dementation is the "screw the rules of the game, let chaos reign!" > discipline. I.E. Kindred Spirits breaks the bleeding rules which is > what makes it so good. Coma breaks the combat rules (go directly to > torpor!). > > The discipline is about insight, about seeing the game in a different > light, to see the world through a shattered mirror. > > So here are some of my ideas: > > I like the Dementation political modifier/ reaction idea so: > > Voter Bewilderment > Action Modifier/ Reaction > Only usable during a political action. > [dem] Reaction: Play with a different title political action card from > your hand and declare the terms if any. If the current vote fails, > immediately pass this vote. > [DEM} Modifier: As above. > > Also, more prank cards! > > Playing Dead > Reaction > [dem] Play before a vampire would rescue this vampire from torpor. > This vampire diablerizes the rescuing vampire instead. > [DEM] Play after a vampire rescues this vampire from torpor. You gain > control of the rescuing vampire. The Methuselah who controlled the > rescuing vampire gains control of this vampire. Woah, strong. Should cost something. Maybe inflict 2 damage on a ready vampire you control. > > Insuing Halarity > Combat > Cannot be used during combat involving your minions. > [dem] As 2 minions are entering combat, each Methuselah involved shows > you their hand. You may discard a non combat card from each hand and > replace the card with a combat card from that Methuselah's ash heap. > [DEM] As above, but you may discard and replace any number of non > combat cards from each hand. > Boom - overpowered. At least in my view. > Self Delusion > Action > +1 Stealth. > [dem] Put this card in play. It acts as an additional edge. Whenever a > player would get the edge they may choose which edge to gain. > [DEM] As above, but when this card is burned it returns to play and > you gain it as an edge. Heh, this sounds hilarious (although the DEM version is too strong - needs a way to go away). > > Change the Rules > Action > +1 Stealth. > Put this card in play. > [dem] Players don't gain a pool during their upkeep if they have the > edge. Instead they may burn the edge to gain 1 pool. > [DEM] As above, and players can't burn the edge to gain a vote during > referendums. Instead the player who controls the edge gains 1 vote > during all referendums. > Needs a burn clause. > Less Confusion > Action > +1 Stealth. > Put this card in play. > [dem] Players read the word "younger" as older and "older" as younger. > [DEM] Players read the word "more" as less and "less" as more. I haven't researched this, but it sounds really strong for some reason. > > Malks Can't Do Anything > Action > +1 Stealth. > Put this card in play. > [dem] Players read the word "can" as can not, "can not" as can, "may" > as may not and "may not" as may. > [DEM] Players read positive numbers on card text as negative numbers > and negative numbers as positive numbers. > crazy!

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm extremely wary of cards that radically alter the rules or structure of the game; all of these cards veer into M:tG territory. Sure, they're pretty thematic to the Discipline, but their effects are just too sweeping.