Lydia, nice to have around?

So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised that maybe it wasnt just a different wording. Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of other players? I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in the rules. Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below. Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6, [HttB] Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require Celerity. Scarce. William Biltmore, 9, AUS DEM dom OBF THA, Malkavian, 3, [CE:V/PM] Camarilla: Once each action, William can burn 1 blood to get +1 stealth. +1 bleed. Zayyat, The Sandstorm, 10, aus qui tha ANI FOR PRO, Gangrel, 3, [Anarchs:U2] Independent: Zayyat has 2 votes. Zayyat can move up to 3 blood from himself to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region as a +1 stealth action. Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth for the current action. Maxwell, 9, CEL FOR POT PRE PRO, Brujah, 3, [CE:V] Camarilla: Once each turn, Maxwell can burn a blood to get +1 stealth on an action that requires Presence. If he doesn't have a title, he can call a referendum to become the Prince of Chicago as a +1 stealth action.

On 25 helmi, 18:24, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" [ quoted text not captured ] If she could give stealth to anyone then her ability would read 'can give the acting minion +1 stealth' it lacks that text so she can only use it to give herself stealth.

On Feb 25, 4:24 pm, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at > her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different > wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised > that maybe it wasnt just a different wording. > > Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of > other players? > I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in > the rules. > > Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below. Surely the best Vampire to compare her to would be Maris Streck, who does have this capability, except for Intercept. Maris Streck Clan: Malkavian (group 3) Capacity: 9 Disciplines: AUS OBF ani dem dom Camarilla Malkavian Justicar: Maris can burn a blood to give a blocking minion +1 intercept. She can take a +1 stealth action to allow you to look at and rearrange the top 5 cards of your library. Based on her text, I'd guess the answer is no, just because Maris has specific text allowing it. IANLSJ.

[ quoted text not captured ] I agree that it seems logical and the also the most balanced. Is there a section in the rules stating that effects like this need to specify that they can effect other minions, otherwise they can only affect the minion? You could easily argue that since the other examples specify that it effects the particular vampire, the lack of such a clause, would mean that it can be used on everyone. I cant find any, but I might have missed something. If it is indeed the case, then I am led back to my initial gripe with this, which is the clear difference in wording when comparing to cards with similar effects. I cant see a reason for the different wording - other than some sinister, conniving plan to confuse everyone - but again, I might be missing something,

[ quoted text not captured ] I kind of hope that the answer is no as well, hehe But if by your argument we agree that Lydia cannot give stealth to others, then surely the best vampires to compare her to, would be the three I mentioned, since the effects are identical to that, and not to an ability giving intercept. :)

On 25 helmi, 18:24, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at > her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different > wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised > that maybe it wasnt just a different wording. > > Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of > other players? > I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in > the rules. > > Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below. > > Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6, > [HttB] > Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can > burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require > Celerity. Scarce. In plain English 'X may do y for z' means that X gets z for doing y. I can't think of another logical way to interpret it.

On Feb 25, 11:57 am, Klaital <klaita...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 25 helmi, 18:24, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" > <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of > > other players? > > Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6, > > Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can > > burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require > > Celerity. Scarce. > If she could give stealth to anyone then her ability would read 'can > give the acting minion +1 stealth' it lacks that text so she can only > use it to give herself stealth. Correct.

[ quoted text not captured ] So it should be worded like the other ones, right?

On 25 helmi, 23:07, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" [ quoted text not captured ] It could be more convenient, sure. On the other hand, I recall complaints about the length of card texts and the difficulties it presents to new players.

[ quoted text not captured ] Never mind, "for" isn't actually any shorter than "get".

[ quoted text not captured ] Is it shorter than "to get"?

On Feb 25, 10:24 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at > her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different > wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised > that maybe it wasnt just a different wording. > > Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of > other players? > I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in > the rules. > > Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below. > > Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6, > [HttB] > Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can > burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require > Celerity. Scarce. LSJ has already given the official answer. If you want another analogy: Lots of vampires have specials where they can burn blood to do something during combat. (Lambach, Karsh, etc.). Technically, their card text does not specify that they have to be the one in combat to do this. (So if you want to burn blood off of that vampire, you could argue that Lambach should be able to burn blood for aggravated damage while other minions are in combat). But in previous discussions, LSJ has clarified that such specials can only be used when that minion is in combat. It is sort of implied (just like with Lydia). If anything, the better interpretation is that Lydia could burn a blood to give *herself* +1 stealth when someone else is acting (it says she burns the blood for stealth - not that someone else gets the stealth). So getting stealth when you're not acting is sort of useless (like getting agg hands when you're not in combat). Plus, there's a specific rule against gaining stealth unless you need it (which you don't if you're not acting).

[ quoted text not captured ] Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3 other examples?

On Feb 26, 3:35 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her > ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3 > other examples? As mentioned, it's shorter.

[ quoted text not captured ] Makes sense. Short is good (unless you are a dwarf living in a sky scraper). Are you using templates when creating cards so all future vampires with this ability will have the recent wording? Will the wording on the online card list be updated to ensure that potential future reprints also use that wording? Sorry to be a pain, but I have introduced a ton of people to the game since I started playing, and when explaining rules to people who have CTCG experience, I have had numerous questions on different wordings through the years. Sometimes its hard to see whether the change was due to a new ruling or to clarify or like in this case where its just shorter. It just all adds to the confusion, and to make the rules even harder to get into.

On Feb 26, 9:11 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Feb 26, 1:53 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Feb 26, 3:35 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt" > > > <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her > > > ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3 > > > other examples? > > > As mentioned, it's shorter. > > Makes sense. Short is good (unless you are a dwarf living in a sky > scraper). > > Are you using templates when creating cards so all future vampires > with this ability will have the recent wording? Will the wording on > the online card list be updated to ensure that potential future > reprints also use that wording? Well, when it's something as minor as this ("x for y" or "x to get y"), where no confusion is on the line, I don't worry too much about it, no.