Q:Toreador Grand Ball

Hi: Another question about Dark Soverigns. Toreador Grand Ball says to choose two Toreadors. The first can't be blocked and the other doesn't untap as normal (and also becomes tapped). Now the question is if the second toreador becomes untapped (ie by Alexandra) is the first Toreador still unblockable? Another thing, is the Toreador Grand Ball supposed to be Unique? Jeff PS. Found a nasty combo with the Toreador Grand Ball. Get the Prince of Paris (don't remember his name) unblockable, put a Chimestry skill card on him and let him go town with sensory deprivations (or just steal blood to your hearts content).

In article <4crgpt$b...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jd...@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (Jeff Dai) wrote: : Hi: : : Another question about Dark Soverigns. : : Toreador Grand Ball says to choose two Toreadors. The first can't be : blocked and the other doesn't untap as normal (and also becomes tapped). : : Now the question is if the second toreador becomes untapped (ie by : Alexandra) is the first Toreador still unblockable? I believe that the first Toreador remains unblockable. The only requirement is that the second Toreador not untap as normal, any other type of untap would work. I believe that also means if you were to choose Masika as the tapped Toreador, he just wouldn't untap in your phase. Kinda nasty. I do believe that you always need to have a Toreador that doesn't untap in the untap phase for this to work. So if you put that second Toreador into torpor, then for the first vamp to remain unblockable, another Toreador would have to be chosen. : Another thing, is the Toreador Grand Ball supposed to be Unique? I honsetly don't know. : Jeff : : PS. Found a nasty combo with the Toreador Grand Ball. Get the Prince of : Paris (don't remember his name) unblockable, put a Chimestry skill card : on him and let him go town with sensory deprivations (or just steal blood : to your hearts content). I hope this helps stephen beaulieu hi...@mail.utexas.edu

hi...@mail.utexas.edu (Stephen Beaulieu) writes: >In article <4crgpt$b...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, jd...@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca >(Jeff Dai) wrote: >: Hi: >: >: Another question about Dark Soverigns. >: >: Toreador Grand Ball says to choose two Toreadors. The first can't be >: blocked and the other doesn't untap as normal (and also becomes tapped). >: >: Now the question is if the second toreador becomes untapped (ie by >: Alexandra) is the first Toreador still unblockable? >I believe that the first Toreador remains unblockable. The only >requirement is that the second Toreador not untap as normal, any other >type of untap would work. >I believe that also means if you were to choose Masika as the tapped >Toreador, he just wouldn't untap in your phase. Kinda nasty. >I do believe that you always need to have a Toreador that doesn't untap in >the untap phase for this to work. So if you put that second Toreador into >torpor, then for the first vamp to remain unblockable, another Toreador >would have to be chosen. Well, there is no mechanism for choosing a different Toreador to remain tapped, nor any requirement that the chosen Toreador remain Ready, so I see no reason to end the "unblockable" status of the one Toreador simply if the second Toreador goes to torpor (or is burned, for that matter) -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

jd...@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (Jeff Dai) writes: >Hi: >Another question about Dark Soverigns. >Toreador Grand Ball says to choose two Toreadors. The first can't be >blocked and the other doesn't untap as normal (and also becomes tapped). >Now the question is if the second toreador becomes untapped (ie by >Alexandra) is the first Toreador still unblockable? Yes. The only cost for being unblockable is "not untapping as normal", not "remaining tapped" - you could untap with Rat's Warning, 2nd Tradition, or (badly-worded) Force of Will, for example. >Another thing, is the Toreador Grand Ball supposed to be Unique? Can't help you there. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jeff Dai (jd...@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote: : Toreador Grand Ball says to choose two Toreadors. The first can't be : blocked and the other doesn't untap as normal (and also becomes tapped). (Full text for those who have not seen the card) Toreador Grand Ball Master Toreador 1 pool Put this card in play. Choose two ready Toreadors you control. The first Toreador cannot be blocked unless he or she attmpts to bleed. The second Toreador does not untap as normal during the untap phase; tap the second Toreador. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action; Nosferatu get -1 stealth when attempting that action. : Now the question is if the second toreador becomes untapped (ie by : Alexandra) is the first Toreador still unblockable? It sure is. The tapped/untapped state of the second Toreador does not in any way affect the unblockability of the first. Also note that the unblockability of the first does not affect the untap restriction on the first; If the first Toreador makes a bleed, the second still may not untap as normal. : Another thing, is the Toreador Grand Ball supposed to be Unique? A good question. If not, then ponder the following abusive situation: I have 4 Toreadors in play. According to the wording of the card, I can play three TGBs, in each case targetting the same hapless toreador as the second victim. (Cumulative 'not untapping as normal' has no effect, and nothing says I must choose a minion who has not yet been targetted by a different TGB...) You now have three unblockable Toreadors... Voting/Bum's Rush anyone? Shane H.W. Travis | Galbraith's Law of Human Nature: Faced with the tra...@duke.usask.ca | choice between changing one's mind and proving Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | that there is no need to do so, almost everybody | gets busy on the proof.