[VEKN] Brujah-Antitribu Newsletter #2 (6/15/98)

Table of Contents ----------------- I. General Comments II. Origins '98: Can Combat Win? III. The !Brujah and their friends IV. Clan-specific cards V. Another Bruise/Bleed deck I. General Comments ------------------- What? A newsletter in the middle of the month? Unheard of! Well, with Origins coming up and lots of free time on my hands, why not? This time, I'll have a discussion on the effectiveness of good combat decks in tournament situations. Also, a break down of the !Brujah vampires, as well as others which fit well into !Bru crypts (Jimmy Dunn). Finally, a !Brujah bruise and bleed deck. Hey, hey, let's go! II. Origins '98 --------------- Well, _I'll_ be there with my combat deck. But can combat prevail? There are a number of issues. A. The Surprise Factor. I've noticed at the few tournaments I've been to, that many people are not aware of effective combat decks. Players who seem to have otherwise well-developed bleed or vote decks are amazed when they can't play their Majesty under Immortal Grapple. Part of this is the rareness of IG. If no one in a group has spent the effort to gather up ten or so, no one there will realize its power. B. The Lack of Metagame. Decks tend to evolve to react to the other decks in the group environment. In an environment with little votes, vote defense will be small or non-existent. In an environment with weak combat, combat defense will be sparse. When coming to a tournament, players try to tune their decks to meet every challenge, which in turn hurts the basic effectiveness of the deck, depending on how much of the deck is devoted to this defense. This is a trade-off, and it's difficult (without lots of tournament experience) to say exactly what the best mix is for every deck. Since there's no metagame, no time for decks to adjust, many decks perform miserably, even though they may have been effective in the home environment. Comments, anyone? III. The !Brujah and their little friends ---------------------------------------- Many fine (and many not-so-fine) vampires were printed in the Sabbat set, but a good deal of them seemed to break the well-established "point system" for building vampires. This, of course, is something to take advantage of when using the !Brujah, and here I'll point out the big winners and the big losers. Here they are, in rather illogical (but easily cut-and-pastable) alphabetical order: Bronwen 10 POT CEL PRE dom obt Sabbat Priscus: Once each combat, Bronwen may dodge as a strike. For a 10, about the only thing she's got going for her is the three in-clan superiors. I've never been a fan of the really big vampires unless they have a really useful special ability, which Bronwen does not. Dodd 5 CEL dom pre Who thought up this stink bomb? I will never understand why the designers thought 6-pointers with 8 or 9 points of abilities and 5-pointers with four were consistent. Even worse, Dodd doesn't even have potence. I'm sure he could be useful in some CEL/PRE deck, but then you might as well use Black Cat or Brachach. Frederick the Weak 2 pre Frederick may be weak in a !Bru combat deck, but he's really useful in weenie presence bleed decks. Hugo 4 POT pre vic Sabbat: Hugo gets -1 intercept against Lasombra and Tzimisces. Hugo is the Sabbat version of Hector Sosa. His disability is not that much of a drawback, and you never know when his vicissitude might come in handy. Jacko 8 POT CEL PRE obt Sabbat: Jacko gets an optional additional strike during the first round of combat. This does not count against his additional strikes for that round. Where Bronwen is weak, Jacko is strong. He also has the three in-clan superiors, and a kick-ass special ability. Equip Jacko with the Sword of Judgement and go nuts with additional strike mania. Jacob Bragg 3 pot cel A staple in any !Bru combat deck. Use two or three. Richter, The Templar of Du Mont 7 POT CEL pre for Sabbat: +1 hand damage Another great vampire. With POT, CEL, and +1 hand damage, he's a combat machine. And, if you're feeling especially combative, he's also got fortitude for the exceptionally sketchy POT/FOR deck. Rigby, Crusade Vanguard 5 pot CEL PRE aus Sabbat: If Rigby attempts to block a Sabbat vampire and fails, and if any of your predator's Bishops are not at full capacity, move 1 blood from Rigby to one of those Bishops. Give yourself a minute to read the text. OK, got it? Yep, that will never, ever happen. And even if it does, who cares? Rigby's main drawback is her lack of superior potence. But she is a perfect Toreador! Also, if your deck uses both presence and celerity as well as potence, she's a good, cheap vampire. Salinger 9 POT CEL PRE tha Sabbat Archbishop of Philadelphia: As a (D) action, Salinger may enter combat with any Lasombra or Tzimisce. +1 bleed Three in-clan superiors, +1 bleed, two votes, and a special ability make Salinger a good 9. But, he's still a 9. If your deck can handle big vampires by having good pool gain, go for it. But in a rush deck, he's just too big. Sarah Brando 3 CEL Sabbat: Sarah gets -1 stealth on each (D) action she attempts against a Methuselah who controls a ready Bishop or Archbishop. Sarah's big problem is her lack of any potence at all. But, one potence master (or my favorite, the Hand of Conrad) make her effective. Another option is to give her bonus hand damage with Depravity and have her use lots of additional strikes. Sela 6 POT cel PRE obt Sabbat Bishop: If Sela becomes an Archbishop, each ready Bishop controlled by your prey burns 1 blood. +1 bleed Well, I've already said everything I can say about Sela. An interesting footnote: a large number of the !Brujah have obtenebration. If anyone has any idea about how to make that useful, I'd like to hear it. Friends of the !Brujah: Jimmy Dunn and Mitchell, the Headhunter. Both of these vampires are good cheap vampires and make a great addition to a !Bru rush deck crypt. IV. Clan-specific cards ----------------------- There aren't very many of these, but there is some good stuff here. Amusement Park Hunting Ground What can you say about a Hunting Ground? Bruisers, The Ally Clan: Brujah Antitribu Cost: 3 Unique Ally with 2 life. 2 hand damage, 0 bleed. The Bruisers may take a (D) action to burn a location controlled by your prey. As allies go, not horrible. But allies in general suck, and this is no exception. Gang Territory Master Clan: Brujah Antitribu Cost: 2 Master: unique location During your influence phase, tap to move 1 blood from the blood bank to one of your uncontrolled Brujah antitribu. An Art Museum for the !Brujah. Very nice, indeed. Survivalist Ally Clan: Brujah Antitribu Cost: 2 Ally with 1 life. 2R, 0 bleed. Tap to give a Brujah antitribu you control one maneuver. If the !Brujah didn't have celerity, this might be useful. As it is, this guy is an expensive kind of Police Station. Marginal, at best. Blood Brother Ambush Action Modifier/Ally Clan: Brujah Antitribu Cost: 2 blood Put this card in play when an action is blocked. Combat does not occur. This card is then considered to be an ally with 3 life and 2R damage; this ally enters combat with the blocking minion. Blood Brothers may play cards requiring basic Potence as a vampire with a capacity of 3. Any cost in blood is paid with life. If a card would give them blood, give them life instead. Burn this card at the end of combat or if the combat is canceled. Unless there's some compelling reason why the ally would fight better than the blocked vampire (and I can't think of one), this card is useless. Sword of Judgment Equipment Clan: Brujah Antitribu Cost: 2 pool Unique melee weapon The Brujah antitribu with this equipment gets +1 hand damage with each strike; he or she gains an optional additional strike each round of combat. A pretty nice, if expensive, card. Though you may thwart the +1 damage with your own Immortal Grapples, LSJ has ruled that you always get the additional strike, which takes this card off of the wallpaper list. V. A Bruise and Bleed Deck -------------------------- With Gwen Morse's recent posting of a Giovanni B&B deck (and the heated discussion following), I decided I would post a !Bru version. Comment at will. Crypt: Frederick the Weak 2 pre Mitchell, the Headhunter 2 pot 2x Jacob Bragg 3 pot cel 2x Hugo 4 POT pre Jimmy Dunn 4 POT CEL Rigby, Crusade Vanguard 5 pot CEL PRE 2x Sela 6 POT cel PRE +1 bleed Richter, Templar of DuMont 7 POT CEL pre Salinger 9 POT CEL PRE +1 bleed Avg. Capacity: 4.583 Masters: Amusement Park Hunting Ground 2x Gang Territory The Hungry Coyote 3x Blood Doll 2x Minion Tap 3x Presence 2x Potence Minion cards: 9x Social Charm 6x Computer Hacking 3x Legal Manipulations 3x Laptop Computer Tasha Morgan J.S.Simmons, Esq. 8x Immortal Grapple 8x Undead Strength 4x Torn Signpost 6x Flash 4x Acrobatics 4x Sideslip 2x Pursuit 5x Bum's Rush 5x Taste of Vitae Hand of Conrad 3x Pulled Fangs 3x Wake with Evening's Freshness ------- 90 cards. This isn't a rush deck, but with all the combat, I like to have a few Bum's Rushes in there to take care of annoying vampires owned by my predator. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that's it for this newsletter. Look for #3 sometime in the middle of July. I'll have an Origins report, as well as a discussion of the Sabbat celerity and presence cards. James -- James Hamblin ham...@math.wisc.edu

In article <35840249...@math.wisc.edu>, James Hamblin <ham...@math.wisc.edu> wrote: > > Well, _I'll_ be there with my combat deck. But can combat prevail? > There are a number of issues. > > A. The Surprise Factor. I've noticed at the few tournaments I've been > to, that many people are not aware of effective combat decks. I totally agree. But there are very few effective combat decks around. > > B. The Lack of Metagame. > > When coming to a tournament, players try to tune their decks to meet > every challenge, which in turn hurts the basic effectiveness of the > deck, depending on how much of the deck is devoted to this defense. > This is a trade-off, and it's difficult (without lots of tournament > experience) to say exactly what the best mix is for every deck. Since > there's no metagame, no time for decks to adjust, many decks perform > miserably, even though they may have been effective in the home > environment. > > Comments, anyone? > The most successful tournament decks I have seen are those able to force their strategy on all other players at the table. They don't need to adjust, they just walk their path. If they meet their mortal enemy - that is bad luck. But most of the time, they are just horribly effective. You only adjust your deck if you think that someone can (and will) resist your efforts effectively enough to stop you, be it your fast predator or your well defending prey. Michael Beer V:EKN Prince of Dortmund -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

James Hamblin wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Not to shabby but might I suggest a few Aire of Elation to replace a few social charm. It'll add a little surprise factor to your bleeds keeping your prey even more on edge, and possibly 2 or 3 Misdirection for when your ready to go for the kill.they really help get you the VP's several turns earlier than you otherwise would. Used early you can hit them with a monster bleed and make blocking and getting beat up no longer optional. just some ideas :-)-~ Eric > > > > >

James Hamblin <ham...@math.wisc.edu> writes: >Bronwen 10 POT CEL PRE dom obt >Sabbat Priscus: Once each combat, Bronwen may dodge as a strike. >For a 10, about the only thing she's got going for her is the three >in-clan superiors. I've never been a fan of the really big vampires >unless they have a really useful special ability, which Bronwen does >not. We get a lot of aggravated damage combat in our group, so the innate dodge (with CEL for additional strikes) is more useful in our group than what you describe. Also, three votes (since Prisci are not common in our group) are always nice, especially if you plan on diablerizing any of your victims. >An interesting footnote: a large number of the !Brujah have >obtenebration. If anyone has any idea about how to make that useful, >I'd like to hear it. Eyes of the Night for intercept - not great, but never worthless. More useful due to the element of surprise (whose expecting these grunts to come up with intercept on-the-fly?) If you're looking for close-range combat (and who isn't, with IGrapple?), the Shade can be useful (and you can recoup the cost with your next Taste of Vitae). >Blood Brother Ambush >Action Modifier/Ally >Clan: Brujah Antitribu >Cost: 2 blood >Put this card in play when an action is blocked. Combat does not occur. >This card is then considered to be an ally with 3 life and 2R damage; >this ally enters combat with the blocking minion. Blood Brothers may >play cards requiring basic Potence as a vampire with a capacity of 3. >Any cost in blood is paid with life. If a card would give them blood, >give them life instead. Burn this card at the end of combat or if the >combat is canceled. >Unless there's some compelling reason why the ally would fight better >than the blocked vampire (and I can't think of one), this card is >useless. You could build a deck for it - using Memories of Mortality and Trap and Immortal Grapple - and use Legal Manip, Intimidation, Mind Numb, and Rampage to make your actions worth blocking. >Sword of Judgment >Equipment >Clan: Brujah Antitribu >Cost: 2 pool >Unique melee weapon The Brujah antitribu with this equipment gets +1 >hand damage with each strike; he or she gains an optional additional >strike each round of combat. >A pretty nice, if expensive, card. Though you may thwart the +1 damage >with your own Immortal Grapples, LSJ has ruled that you always get the >additional strike, which takes this card off of the wallpaper list. That's not even a ruling - just a clarification. No other interpretation is possible from card text. As an alternative to IGrapple, use Psyche (superior) to chew through your opponent's S:CE and Dodges. That way, you can use your +1 damage. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Please return the flight http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | attendants to their original Graphics Specialist and V:TES Rulemonger | upright positions

L. Scott Johnson wrote: > > James Hamblin <ham...@math.wisc.edu> writes: [Bronwen] > We get a lot of aggravated damage combat in our group, so the innate > dodge (with CEL for additional strikes) is more useful in our group > than what you describe. > > Also, three votes (since Prisci are not common in our group) are > always nice, especially if you plan on diablerizing any of your > victims. You have a point. I just don't think more than 8 pool is ever really justified for one minion, unless they've got a really good gimmick (like an IC Member) or _you've_ got a gimmick you use that vampire for (like the all Wynn, all the time deck). So sure, Bronwen's not useless. She's just expensive. > >An interesting footnote: a large number of the !Brujah have > >obtenebration. If anyone has any idea about how to make that useful, > >I'd like to hear it. > > Eyes of the Night for intercept - not great, but never worthless. More > useful due to the element of surprise (whose expecting these grunts to > come up with intercept on-the-fly?) Also, as someone else pointed out, it's nice to have occasional stealth (Shadow Body) in a bruise/bleed deck, for that bleed you just need to get through. > >Blood Brother Ambush [snip] > >Unless there's some compelling reason why the ally would fight better > >than the blocked vampire (and I can't think of one), this card is > >useless. > > You could build a deck for it - using Memories of Mortality and Trap and > Immortal Grapple - and use Legal Manip, Intimidation, Mind Numb, and > Rampage to make your actions worth blocking. Ha! I must confess that I had to look up what Memories of Mortality did, but that's pretty cool! > >Sword of Judgment [snip] > As an alternative to IGrapple, use Psyche (superior) to chew through > your opponent's S:CE and Dodges. That way, you can use your +1 damage. I usually put a few Psyches into my !Bru rush deck, since sometimes you'll want to play a dodge yourself. Damn that aggravated damage! But this is a good idea, too. [ quoted text not captured ]

> >Blood Brother Ambush > >Action Modifier/Ally > >Clan: Brujah Antitribu > >Cost: 2 blood > >Put this card in play when an action is blocked. Combat does not occur. > >This card is then considered to be an ally with 3 life and 2R damage; > >this ally enters combat with the blocking minion. Blood Brothers may > >play cards requiring basic Potence as a vampire with a capacity of 3. > >Any cost in blood is paid with life. If a card would give them blood, > >give them life instead. Burn this card at the end of combat or if the > >combat is canceled. > > >Unless there's some compelling reason why the ally would fight better > >than the blocked vampire (and I can't think of one), this card is > >useless. > > You could build a deck for it - using Memories of Mortality and Trap and > Immortal Grapple - and use Legal Manip, Intimidation, Mind Numb, and Rampage > to make your actions worth blocking. > Hmm... Well that combo would be utterly useless, unless you used Torn Signpost as well, making it a fairly huge combo (Memories of Mortality, bleed card, Torn Signpost, Trap, Immortal Grapple). Without TS, you just sit there and can't strike until the Trap runs out. -Chris

Chris Berger <ber...@cco.caltech.edu> writes: >> >Blood Brother Ambush >> >Put this card in play when an action is blocked. Combat does not occur. >> >This card is then considered to be an ally with 3 life and 2R damage; >> >this ally enters combat with the blocking minion. Blood Brothers may >> >play cards requiring basic Potence as a vampire with a capacity of 3. >> >> You could build a deck for it - using Memories of Mortality and Trap and >> Immortal Grapple - and use Legal Manip, Intimidation, Mind Numb, and Rampage >> to make your actions worth blocking. >> >Hmm... Well that combo would be utterly useless, unless you used Torn >Signpost as well, making it a fairly huge combo (Memories of Mortality, >bleed card, Torn Signpost, Trap, Immortal Grapple). Without TS, you >just sit there and can't strike until the Trap runs out. Oh yeah. Easier than adding TS would be dropping the IG. Sorry for the oversight. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <gLB8mNAB...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <35856BE1...@cco.caltech.edu>, Chris Berger > <ber...@cco.caltech.edu> writes > >> >Blood Brother Ambush > <snip text - does ranged damage, not hand damage> > >> > >> >Unless there's some compelling reason why the ally would fight better > >> >than the blocked vampire (and I can't think of one), this card is > >> >useless. > >> > >> You could build a deck for it - using Memories of Mortality and Trap and > >> Immortal Grapple - and use Legal Manip, Intimidation, Mind Numb, and Rampage > >> to make your actions worth blocking. > >> > >Hmm... Well that combo would be utterly useless, unless you used Torn > >Signpost as well, making it a fairly huge combo (Memories of Mortality, > >bleed card, Torn Signpost, Trap, Immortal Grapple). Without TS, you > >just sit there and can't strike until the Trap runs out. > > > > Hmmm.... it's cards and instances like this that make me dislike the > ruling on allies and hand damage. I would have thought that *some* > allies are going to be better at ranged damage (say, Order of Hermes > Cabal working with magic etc.) but I can see very little reason that > most allies can't actually punch you. > > I would have thought it sensible, at least, that most allies had 1 hand > damage or, at least, 0 hand damage rather than NO hand damage at all. > That would, in this case, still require a card to give them hand damage > but you could use something common like Undead Strength rather than > something rare like Immortal Grapple. Of course, if you've got LOADS of > Blood Brother Ambushes anyway, you've probably got loads of Torn > Signposts anyway..... so you're either playing JOL or work for Wizards > of the Coast :) > > -- > > James Coupe (Prince of Mercia) Change nospam to obeah to reply > > Vampire: Elder Kindred Network > madnessnetwork.hexagon.net Isn't the right combo Memories of Mortality, Blood Brother Ambush, Lucky Blow and Pulled Fangs? Naturally, you would not bother putting your Memories on someone with Fortitude. And you would need some other excuse for the Memories .. maybe Fame, so you could play it on your own vamps if necessary and pop them off to torpor at the end of each of your turns, or maybe War Ghoul in a !Brujah deck containing a few Tzimisces - either a little one [Horatio] or one of the REALLY big guys [Stravinsky, Lambach or Anton]. Or maybe just the wossname guys, Survivalist and Bruisers[?] with lots of computer hacking to make them a bleeding threat. True this is combo-land, but these cards are going to be useful by themselves anyway. Kudos to whoever started this thread for making me revise my opinion of yet another "useless" card! Legbiter, Archon of Wessex.

In article <3584FC2B...@uswest.net>, Eric Freeman <eric...@uswest.net> writes >Not to shabby but might I suggest a few Aire of Elation to replace a >few social charm. It'll add a little surprise factor to your bleeds keeping >your prey even more on edge, Yeah, I'd go with that for definite. The deck seems to like Bruise and Bleed as its strategy. The problem with Bruise and Bleed is if they DON'T block. At one point, you will have a hand with no bleed cards in it but if you had a few Aire of Elations flying around, it might help to keep them on edge and block you, since if they say "Okay, I don't block" they have the fear of being bled for a hell of a lot more than they planned for. [ quoted text not captured ]