Lots of rules Questions

Just to test myself before tomorrow <evil grin> 1-Vampire A is in combat with vampire B. Vampire A use agg damage as a strike. Who can play Rotshreck and who goes to torpor for that ? 2-A vampire is equiped with a bastard sword, he plays a Torn Signpost in superior, he strikes for how much ? What if he has +1 hand damage written in his description ? 3-It is said in the clarifications that a vampire's capacity can never be reduced below one. Why is it said also that a vampire's capacity can never be less than zero ? What could you do anyway with a zero capacity vampire ? 4- a) When a player is ousted, which cards leave the table with him ? All the ones that he controls (Charnas the Imp, Fame, etc.)? b) What about Millicent Smith if he's the one who brought it on the table but is not the controller when he is ousted ? c) If I control a vampire of the ousted Methuselah (Grave Robbing), do all the masters (and retainers) that methuselah had put on that vampire leave play ? 5-Can a methuselah choose to burn a vampire BEFORE the loss of one pool for Antediluvian Awakening (the card says pay one pool at the START of untap phase) ? 6-If I play a Burning Wrath, and then I play a Primal Insctincts and choose a new strike, do my vampire have to pay the cost of BW ? 7-If I play Flesh of Marble in superior and the opposing vampire strikes me for 1 normal + 1 aggravated, do I have the choice of which damage I take ? 8-Vampire A (10 blood points on him) stikes with a sup Burning Wrath (3 agg), Vampire B (10 blood points on him) strikes with sup Theft of Vitae (steal 2) ; how does it finish (how much blood on each vampire) ? 9-Parity Shift : do I have to reallocate the pool among ALL other methuselahs, or do I have the choice to keep it for me or give it all to one of the methuselah ? 10-Methuselah A has Koko with the Rack on him. Methuselah B steals Koko with a Grave Robbing (or a Hostile Takeover). What happens with the Rack ? 11-Is the Spawning Pool usable at long range ? Thank you very much for your time, Remy Auclair, VEKN prince of Quebec city ra...@videotron.ca http://pages.infinit.net/rafid/

Rafid Armani wrote: > 1-Vampire A is in combat with vampire B. Vampire A use agg damage as > a strike. Who can play Rotshreck and who goes to torpor for that ? Any Methuselah can play Rotschreck except for the Methuselah whose turn it is. Rotschreck is played on the vampire against whom the minion is attempting to use aggravated damage. In the example, vampire B goes to torpor. > 2-A vampire is equiped with a bastard sword, he plays a Torn Signpost > in superior, he strikes for how much ? What if he has +1 hand damage > written in his description ? Assuming he strikes with the Bastard Sword, he strikes for 4 damage (Torn Signpost sets his strength to 3, and the sword inflicted strength+1 damage). If the vampire has +1 strength (due to his special ability, for example), he'll inflict 5 damage (one additional for the strength bonus). > 3-It is said in the clarifications that a vampire's capacity can never > be reduced below one. Why is it said also that a vampire's capacity > can never be less than zero ? What could you do anyway with a zero > capacity vampire ? A vampire's capacity can never go below 1. This is a change from a previous ruling. > 4- a) When a player is ousted, which cards leave the table with him ? > All the ones that he controls (Charnas the Imp, Fame, etc.)? The ones that she controls. > b) What about Millicent Smith if he's the one who brought it on the > table but is not the controller when he is ousted ? If he doesn't control it, the it is not burned. > c) If I control a vampire of the ousted Methuselah (Grave Robbing), do > all the masters (and retainers) that methuselah had put on that > vampire leave play ? Only the ones that the ousted Methuselah controls. This is typically just the Master cards. Expicit card text (or errata) is needed to maintain control of non-master library cards ("minion cards") > 5-Can a methuselah choose to burn a vampire BEFORE the loss of one > pool for Antediluvian Awakening (the card says pay one pool at the > START of untap phase) ? Yes. The only effect that happens at the START of the untap phase is the untapping of all of one's cards. All other effects can be ordered as one wishes. > 6-If I play a Burning Wrath, and then I play a Primal Insctincts and > choose a new strike, do my vampire have to pay the cost of BW ? Yes, since Primal Instrincts says nothing about regaining the blood you've already spent playing the cancelled strike. > 7-If I play Flesh of Marble in superior and the opposing vampire > strikes me for 1 normal + 1 aggravated, do I have the choice of which > damage I take ? You choose, yes. > 8-Vampire A (10 blood points on him) stikes with a sup Burning Wrath > (3 agg), Vampire B (10 blood points on him) strikes with sup Theft of > Vitae (steal 2) ; how does it finish (how much blood on each vampire) > ? Depends on the capacity of vampire B. Stolen blood in excess of his capacity drains off immediately (as always), which is before it can be used to heal damage or prevent destruction. vamp A ends with 5 blood (burned 3 for Wrath, lost 2 for theft). vamp A ends in torpor with MAX(cap,12)-2 blood (12 or his capacity for the theft, followed by a loss of two blood to prevent destruction). > 9-Parity Shift : do I have to reallocate the pool among ALL other > methuselahs, or do I have the choice to keep it for me or give it all > to one of the methuselah ? You can exclude some Methuselahs, as you see fit. > 10-Methuselah A has Koko with the Rack on him. Methuselah B steals > Koko with a Grave Robbing (or a Hostile Takeover). What happens with > the Rack ? Nothing. It continues to be able to "feed" Koko, and is still controlled by Meth A. > 11-Is the Spawning Pool usable at long range ? Yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:39A6A770...@white-wolf.com... > Rafid Armani wrote: > > 1-Vampire A is in combat with vampire B. Vampire A use agg damage as > > a strike. Who can play Rotshreck and who goes to torpor for that ? > > Any Methuselah can play Rotschreck except for the Methuselah whose turn > it is. > Rotschreck is played on the vampire against whom the minion is attempting > to use aggravated damage. In the example, vampire B goes to torpor. So why is it that you can't play an out-of-turn Master on your turn, after your Master phase, in place of your next Master phase action?

How about this: 1. I take control of a vampire with grave robbing, it has a discipline card on it, the player who brought it to play is outsted, the discipline card is burned???? Enrique Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:05:05 GMT, "Kevin M." <kjme...@NOSPAMhome.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Some cards (such as Absolution of the Diabolist), you can. Otherwise, it's because it wouldn't be an out-of-turn Master, now would it? -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta

> 2-A vampire is equiped with a bastard sword, he plays a Torn Signpost > in superior, he strikes for how much ? What if he has +1 hand damage > written in his description ? Assuming he strikes with the Bastard Sword, he strikes for 4 damage (Torn Signpost sets his strength to 3, and the sword inflicted strength+1 damage). If the vampire has +1 strength (due to his special ability, for example), he'll inflict 5 damage (one additional for the strength bonus). Now I'm totally lost...I always thought that what made the difference between Fists of Death and Torn Signpost, was that the latter nullified any modifying damage that was on the vampire before the TS was played. If the vampire had +1 hand damage he'd not benefit from it with TS was played, because TS sets the strength to 3 and doesn't increase the strength with 2 as Fists of Death does. So how is FS better than TS with your ruling above? It even costs one blood. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <lBFp5.19773$ZI2.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>, Kevin M. <kjme...@NOSPAMhome.com> writes >So why is it that you can't play an out-of-turn Master on your turn, after >your Master phase, in place of your next Master phase action? Because it's an out of turn master card. "3. Out-of-turn: You may play an out-of-turn Master card whenever appropriate during another player’s turn." [V:TES Rules PDF] -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D | ja...@zephyr.org.uk (New e-mail) "Who'd have ever predicted the moment would come when I find myself grateful they've kept women dumb? She's an innocent maiden but then so am I, that's why it's possible I could get by."

In article <8o7g01$eiq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, take...@my-deja.com writes >1. I take control of a vampire with grave robbing, it has a discipline >card on it, the player who brought it to play is outsted, the >discipline card is burned???? Yes. You control the vampire, but you never took control of the discipline card. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8o8llf$laq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, can...@my-deja.com writes > >> 2-A vampire is equiped with a bastard sword, he plays a Torn Signpost >> in superior, he strikes for how much ? What if he has +1 hand damage >> written in his description ? > >Assuming he strikes with the Bastard Sword, he strikes for 4 damage >(Torn Signpost sets his strength to 3, and the sword inflicted >strength+1 damage). >If the vampire has +1 strength (due to his special ability, for >example), he'll inflict 5 damage (one additional for the strength >bonus). Yes. >Now I'm totally lost...I always thought that what made the difference >between Fists of Death and Torn Signpost, was that the latter nullified >any modifying damage that was on the vampire before the TS was played. Not really. The +1 hand damage from the vampire is permanent. It's not a "played" or "unplayed" thing. The major difference between Fists of Death and Torn Signpost is that Fists of Death is stackable, but Torn Signpost isn't - so FoD has the blood cost. >If the vampire had +1 hand damage he'd not benefit from it with TS was >played, because TS sets the strength to 3 and doesn't increase the >strength with 2 as Fists of Death does. So how is FS better than TS >with your ruling above? It even costs one blood. Fists of Death isn't intended to be "better" or "worse". One slight change from Jyhad to V:TES was that the vampires who previously said 2 hand damage (e.g. Bianca) now say +1 hand damage. So, in Jyhad, Torn Signpost was a little different, but not vastly. However, Fists of Death is still playable, if you want to. You can play several in one round, *and* get some bonus for it, if you find you've suddenly picked up three at once. You can stack it on top of Torn Signpost, too. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:53:40 GMT, can...@my-deja.com wrote: >Now I'm totally lost...I always thought that what made the difference >between Fists of Death and Torn Signpost, was that the latter nullified >any modifying damage that was on the vampire before the TS was played. >If the vampire had +1 hand damage he'd not benefit from it with TS was >played, because TS sets the strength to 3 and doesn't increase the >strength with 2 as Fists of Death does. So how is FS better than TS >with your ruling above? It even costs one blood. (all examples assume superior Potence) Torn Signpost sets your base strength to 3. If you have pre-existing modifiers such as +1 base strength, these apply now. But no matter how many Torn Signposts you play, you never get more than 3 to start with. And it's free. Fists of Death gives you an additional +2 strength, pure and simple. You can play Torn Signpost first, and then Fists of Death, and get +4 strength. If you play in the other order, though, you get only +2 strength, since Torn Signpost merely SETS your strength instead of modifying it. And Fists of Death doesn't modify base strength, so it wouldn't apply afterwards in the same way. For the stackability, it costs a blood. Increased Strength generally works almost exactly like Fists of Death, except for its free cost it only applies a damage modifier to Potence strike cards - so you cannot Increased Strength/Blur, you must use FoD or Torn Signpost. You can, however, IS/Undead Strength, and the results look just the same as if you had used a Signpost or Fists. Is Fists of Death better than Torn Signpost? -shrug- I tend to include a few Fists (2-3) in most decks, just for that stackability in case I need to knock over a full 10-cap - play TS/FoD, strike for 5, Blur at inferior for another, and now he's empty. Taste, press with the Grapple and bop him once more. Or, if you're just using Potence, TS/FoD/Undead Strength for 7, Taste, press with the Grapple, and smack for 5 next round (eliminates even IC members!). You may have to Grapple him twice, but big guys take more effort. You can't do this as easily with just Torn Signpost - need to use multiple strike cards or have superior CEL. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > (all examples assume superior Potence) > > Torn Signpost sets your base strength to 3. If you have pre-existing > modifiers such as +1 base strength, these apply now. But no matter > how many Torn Signposts you play, you never get more than 3 to start > with. And it's free. > > Fists of Death gives you an additional +2 strength, pure and simple. > You can play Torn Signpost first, and then Fists of Death, and get +4 > strength. If you play in the other order, though, you get only +2 > strength, since Torn Signpost merely SETS your strength instead of > modifying it. And Fists of Death doesn't modify base strength, so it > wouldn't apply afterwards in the same way. For the stackability, it > costs a blood. > This doesn't make any sense to me. You say yourself that TS *sets* the strength instead of modifying it. Which I totally agree on, and you give an example where playing FoD before TS will cancel FoD's effect, but I fail to see how this is compatible with the fact that if a vampire had +1 hand damage it will add to TS's 3 damage. IMO the +1 hand damage works the same way as if you played FoD before TS. I can't really see how, if you modified your hand damage and then play a card that sets it to 3, the strength then can be higher than 3 if you play no more cards. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8obk7v$ojh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, can...@my-deja.com writes >IMO the +1 >hand damage works the same way as if you played FoD before TS. Fists of Death is played. Increased Hand Damage by vampire card is not played. It is simply applied when the hand damage is calculated. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <+b5subA$uYq5...@obeah.demon.co.uk>, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In article <8obk7v$ojh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, can...@my-deja.com writes > >IMO the +1 > >hand damage works the same way as if you played FoD before TS. > > Fists of Death is played. > > Increased Hand Damage by vampire card is not played. It is simply > applied when the hand damage is calculated. except torn signpost resets your _base_ strength, so any modifers, whether they are played before or ofter torn signpost, will still have an effect. the only thing that matters with order is erosion and torn signpost, because they both set the _base_ strength. so whichever one is played most recently is in effect. mind you, if an eroded vamp plays TS (for that combat their strength will be 2 or 3), when the combat is over their strength will again drop back to 0 from the erosion. _*__salem _*__http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5848/ ***__salem_...@my-dejanews.com _*__and the rains came hammering down [ quoted text not captured ]

> Fists of Death gives you an additional +2 strength, pure and simple. > You can play Torn Signpost first, and then Fists of Death, and get +4 > strength. If you play in the other order, though, you get only +2 > strength, since Torn Signpost merely SETS your strength instead of > modifying it. And Fists of Death doesn't modify base strength, so it > wouldn't apply afterwards in the same way. For the stackability, it > costs a blood. Derek, what were you on when you wrote this because I want some. It doesn't matter what order you play the cards. With TS and FoD, regardless of the order, will net you 5HD. More if your vamp has an inherant +HD special. If Bianca (+1HD) uses TS at superior, she has 4 HD, not 3 HD as you would suggest above. Similarly, if a vamp plays FoD, it gives that vamp +2/+3 HD (just as if the vamp had a +HD special) and when TS is played setting the base HD to 2/3, the bonus from FoD is added to that. Regardless of the order played. Sorrow --- "This is my costume. I'm a homicidal maniac. They look just like everyone else." -- Wednesday Addams

Derek Ray wrote: > Torn Signpost sets your base strength to 3. If you have pre-existing > modifiers such as +1 base strength, these apply now. But no matter > how many Torn Signposts you play, you never get more than 3 to start > with. And it's free. Correct. > Fists of Death gives you an additional +2 strength, pure and simple. > You can play Torn Signpost first, and then Fists of Death, and get +4 > strength. If you play in the other order, though, you get only +2 > strength, since Torn Signpost merely SETS your strength instead of > modifying it. And Fists of Death doesn't modify base strength, so it > wouldn't apply afterwards in the same way. For the stackability, it > costs a blood. No. It doesn't matter in which order you play Fists and Signpost - the result is that you get a base 3 strength and a +2 strength modifier for a total of 5 strength. [ quoted text not captured ]