Lucian with 11 Orun, plays Brutal Influence, Command of the Beast, Conditioning.

What have I missed? Better than Spiridonas? Lucian 4 bleed Brutal +1, 11 Orun +11 Command +1 Conditioning +3 Total: 19. Well, I guess we could give him skill cards for skills he doesn't have to give him more Orun. That'll get him up to what, 33? Anything I missed? best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Lucian: +3 built in +2 GtU @ dom or +2 Legal @ pre/PRE +1 Brutal Influence +11 11 Orun +1 Command of the Beast +3 Conditioning = 22 Bleed.

[ quoted text not captured ] No Brutal Influence is an action, so u cant play GtU or Legal with it, so 19 would be the # with the equation purposed, but u could up the total by adding bleed retainers (+4), a laptop (+1), Heart of the City (+2), Pulse of the Canaille (+2) and Legendary Vampire (+2) to up it to 30 :)

[ quoted text not captured ] Did I misread Brutal Influence? Isn't it an action? best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] 28 different disciplines, of which Lucian has 6 already at SUP. 10 of them are Bloodlines Disciplines, which you have to have Sanguine Instruction to do. But the others are all Skilly cards (incl Abombwe). So, he could get up to 35 capacity (24 extra skill cards), so that's 35 Orun. 1+3+1+35+1+3 (and then adding Jugg's sugg's): +4+1+2+2+2 = 55 bleed. Mix in 1 Strange Day FTW! best - chris (Rock Cat blocks, Traps, IG, wash rinse repeat, Burning Wrath FT real Win).

[ quoted text not captured ] Deck: Deck Name: Here's how he can become perfect Created By: shorb Description: 55 bleed, unblockable baby! Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 44, Max: 44, Avg: 11) -------------------------------------------- 12 Lucian ANI AUS DOM OBF POT PRE 11 Guruhi Library: (76 cards) ------------------- Master (61 cards) 2 Abombwe 2 Celerity 2 Chimerstry 2 Dementation 2 Fortitude 1 Legendary Vampire 2 Necromancy 2 Obtenebration 35 Orun 2 Protean 2 Quietus 2 Serpentis 2 Thaumaturgy 1 Trophy: No Questions 2 Vicissitude Action (3 cards) 1 Brutal Influence 1 Heart of the City 1 Pulse of the Canaille Action Modifier (8 cards) 1 Approximation of Loyalty 1 Command of the Beast 1 Conditioning 1 Devil-Channel: Throat 1 Elder Impersonation 1 Recurring Contemplation 1 Strange Day 1 True Love`s Face Retainer (3 cards) 1 J. S. Simmons, Esq. 1 Robert Carter 1 Tasha Morgan Equipment (1 cards) 1 Laptop Computer This deck was last saved at 10:38:20 PM on 7/15/2009

[ quoted text not captured ] > This deck was last saved at 10:38:20 PM on 7/15/2009- Idézett szöveg elrejtése - > > - Idézett szöveg megjelenítése - Ancestor Spirit Kduva Mask .. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] You could make him an Anarch for a bit, then play Stealing Years many times against other vamps with Orun on them. Then Mozambique Allure back to Laibon. But if we change this puzzle to be: Get the biggest bleed possible in a single action with infinite time, infinite pool (from the edge), and no other players using a legal deck, I think you'd need to go with Spiridonas and Frederick the Weak (for Waste Management Operation, since you'll likely need to discard a lot to get the cards in the right order.) > > 2 Abombwe > > 2 Celerity > > 2 Chimerstry > > 2 Dementation > > 2 Fortitude > > 2 Necromancy > > 2 Obtenebration > > 2 Protean > > 2 Quietus > > 2 Serpentis > > 2 Vicissitude And also: 1 Potence 1 Presence 2 Animalism 2 Obfuscate 2 Auspex So he ends up being a 39 cap without bloodlines disciplines > > 39 Orun That's 69 cards so far. We definitely need these: 1 Brutal Influence 1 Waste Management Operation 1 Mozambique Allure We should definitely use any cards that give us +2 bleed or more with a single card: > > 1 Legendary Vampire > > 1 Heart of the City > > 1 Pulse of the Canaille > > 1 Robert Carter 1 Inveraray, Scotland 1 Conditioning 1 Despiral 1 Clan Impersonation Now we're at 80 cards. I would include: 5 Sanguine Instruction 5 Orun So you can get 5 more capacity In the Crypt, I would include: Spiridonas Fredrick the Weak Bloodlines vamps to Sanguine Instruct 5 times. So the total capacity is 44, which means there can be 45 counters on Despiral. +1 Brutal Influence +44 44 Orun +45 Despiral +2 Legendary Vampire +2 Heart of the City +2 Pulse of the Canaille +2 Robert Carter +3 Inveraray, Scotland +3 Conditioning +39 Spiridonas's special (44 cap - 2 cost of special - 1 Brutal Inf - 1Conditioning - 1 Robert Carter) = 143 Bleed After doing all of that, though, I'm wondering if it would be more efficient to simply include: 1 Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1 Despiral 1 Clan Impersonation 1 Inveraray, Scotland 86 Camarilla Vitae Slave and/or Discipline Master Cards Then, we get Spiridonas to be a 95-cap vampire, so Despiral reaches 96 counters. +96 Despiral +3 Inveraray, Scotland +93 Spiridonas's special (95 cap - 2 cost of special) = 192 bleed. So I guess that's a lot better. The crypt is Spiridonas with a Lasombra. Can anyone break 200 bleed in one action, using a legal deck with infinite time, pool, and no other players? Ira

[ quoted text not captured ] He could clan impersonate to Ishtarri and get Despirals (and put quite a few counters on each if he's a 35 cap). Go go math people!

Ira Fay <ira...@gmail.com> writes: [ quoted text not captured ] Given infinite amount of turns and no interference from other players, all you need is one Ishtarri and one Despiral. Add counter, hunt, add counter, hunt, add counter,... Add a Perfectionist as well, and you can do away with the hunting, if you want to reach +infinity bleed at twice the speed. :-] HG

Enkil Cog gives +1 bleed too.

On Jul 16, 7:30 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Enkil Cog gives +1 bleed too. How about this build? Deck Name : Perfect Author : Rafael Pereira de Aguiar Description : Crypt (12 vampires) Capacity min: 3 max: 11 average: 7.75 ------------------------------------------------------------ 5x Lucian, the Perfec 11 ANI AUS DOM OBF POT PRE Guruhi:4 3x Nana Buruku 8 ANI POT PRE Guruhi:4 2x Smash 3 pot pre !Brujah:4 1x Alessandro Garcia 4 pot pre pro !Brujah:4 1x Patrick 4 POT pre !Brujah:4 Library (61 cards) ------------------------------------------------------------ Action (8) 4x Brutal Influence 4x Revelations Action Modifier (13) 4x Conditioning 1x Enkil Cog 4x Freak Drive 4x Will-o'-the-Wisp Combat (6) 2x Disengage 4x Majesty Equipment (1) 1x Nkishi Master (33) 3x Chimerstry 3x Fortitude 1x Gang Territory 1x Giant's Blood 1x Legendary Vampire 1x Mbare Market, Harare 3x Minion Tap 12x Orun 2x Parthenon, The 1x Waste Management Operation 5x Zillah's Valley

[ quoted text not captured ] If you plan to give him chimestry , you NEED to play Hearts Desire! everything else would be sacrilege!

On Jul 15, 11:07 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > What have I missed? Better than Spiridonas? > > Lucian 4 bleed > Brutal +1, 11 Orun +11 > Command +1 > Conditioning +3 > Total: 19. > I get 20. Bad math? > Well, I guess we could give him skill cards for skills he doesn't have > to give him more Orun. That'll get him up to what, 33? > Anything I missed? > So, I see you're going for max bleed, but of course max bleed is infinity, given enough turns. A more enlightening question might be how much is the reasonable maximum, but the definition of reasonable is nebulous at best. Personally, I find that in practice, the "Lucian Bleeds for a Million" deck really bleeds for 12 (I thought it was 13, but I guess my math was off). Bring out Lucian, play Orun on him, then Static Virtue for 3 Orun and 3 Aye. Then you bleed with: Lucian: 1 + 3 Brutal: +1, +4 for Oruns Conditioning: 3 Total: 12 Command of the Beast isn't really worth +1 for the 1 card space taken up. My Lucian deck plays with some Elder Impersonation, Seduction, Approximation of Loyalty, and Force of Personality (to hose non-zombie allies). Also High Orun (hand size and reduce the cost of EI and Conditioning (and Approximation, if it's used to cancel bounce or wake), and High Aye and a little OBF for stealth (High Aye and High Orun are good because of the burn option so I can cycle to the Static Virtues). Lucian rarely gets more than 4 Oruns because he has to burn one every time he bleeds. I also use the !Sal who can look at your hand in combat, Prophecies of Gehenna, and Revelations to try and deal with bounce/AI. Everytime I build a bazooka bleed deck, I curse the fact that Bleeding the Vine can't cancel OOT masters. Just my two cents - don't let that stop the speculation on bleeds for 50+, of course. =)

On Jul 16, 5:47 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > So, I see you're going for max bleed, but of course max bleed is > infinity, given enough turns. How? I'm assuming you don't mean that the amount will become infinite after an infinite number of turns, but rather that there's some way to (infinitly) keep increasing Lucian's bleed after your library is depleted. But I just can't figure that way out, since the biggest increaser I can think of would be Clan Impersonation and Despirals. And that would be limited by 90 card library and the amount of blood the Despiral counters will cost eventually.

[ quoted text not captured ] Okay, my bad. I read where someone mentioned Despiral/hunt/Despiral counter/hunt, etc... but forgot the X cost. Doh! Okay, so it's not infinite. It's huge, but not infinite. I'm not sure how to calculate the maximum, in that case. If you put like 10 Despirals on him, and got his capacity up to 30, that would take up 29 cards of your deck and each Despiral could have up to 31 counters on it, for 314 bleed. And it would take somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 turns because of all the hunting. Perfectionist could reduce that significantly, as would hunt bonuses. But that would take up space in the deck that could be used for more Despirals. 66 Despirals + 24 Skill cards = 2380 bleed if my math isn't messed up. And if I'm not way off, I think it takes 666 x 66 = 43956 turns with no outside help. Oops, forgot the Clan Impersonation, but the 666 x 66 symmetry is too good to pass up. Since we're assuming that the game goes on for 44000 turns, ignoring the requirements on Despiral doesn't seem too important, right? =) There may even be a way to increase the total beyond Despirals, but +35 bleed seems like a lot for one card... what would you replace it with? But are we trying to maximize the bleed total at the expense of every reasonable assumption? If not, there's got to be some "reasonableness" limit. I think the sample decks posted in this thread fall within a pretty good reasonableness limit, so I'm not complaining. I just figured I'd post my own thoughts on what's reasonable. More than +12 doesn't seem like it's really worth actually planning for in a real deck that's trying to win. For a fun deck that just wants to see what it can do, or a thought experiment, then yeah, the other estimates are perfectly fine. The 2380 estimate above is obviously ridiculous, and not just because I forgot to factor in the CI. =)

On Jul 16, 6:28 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > But are we trying to maximize the bleed total at the expense of > every reasonable assumption? If not, there's got to be some > "reasonableness" limit. Only for the excersise, and because I got curious when you said infinity. Would be fun to know the highest amount Lucian could actually bleed for, but I'm not mathy enough to add up all the capacity increasing cards and weigh them against Despirals and all that. > I think the sample decks posted in this > thread fall within a pretty good reasonableness limit, so I'm not > complaining. I just figured I'd post my own thoughts on what's > reasonable. More than +12 doesn't seem like it's really worth > actually planning for in a real deck that's trying to win. For reasonable amounts, I'd say 9 (4 (base) + 2 (GtU) + 3 (conditioning)) is the most reasonable, and by enough by far. But your 12 is probably around the "highest while still reasonable", even if that's still some too many cards than what I'd like in a chain.

On Jul 16, 11:49 am, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 16, 6:28 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > > > But are we trying to maximize the bleed total at the expense of > > every reasonable assumption? If not, there's got to be some > > "reasonableness" limit. > > Only for the excersise, and because I got curious when you said > infinity. > Would be fun to know the highest amount Lucian could actually bleed > for, but I'm not mathy enough to add up all the capacity increasing > cards and weigh them against Despirals and all that. > Yeah, and I'm pretty sure my estimate has all kinds of inaccuracies in it as well. =) > > I think the sample decks posted in this > > thread fall within a pretty good reasonableness limit, so I'm not > > complaining. I just figured I'd post my own thoughts on what's > > reasonable. More than +12 doesn't seem like it's really worth > > actually planning for in a real deck that's trying to win. > > For reasonable amounts, I'd say 9 (4 (base) + 2 (GtU) + 3 > (conditioning)) is the most reasonable, and by enough by far. But your > 12 is probably around the "highest while still reasonable", even if > that's still some too many cards than what I'd like in a chain. Well, that's a real deck, and it does bleed for 12 reliably. It's a pain waiting for a Static Virtue if I don't draw one early enough, but otherwise, it's pretty solid. The problem is more that it runs out of steam after ousting a prey or two. Also, it can be shut down by enough bounce or an AI that comes up at the right time (i.e. drawn to replace after a Revelations, or if I just don't have a Revelations and still decide to risk it), or a fast enough predator, or good enough rush (Obedience helps, but there's not enough room for *enough* Obedience. Force of Personality helps also but loses to Grapple or enough Psyche).

Deck Name: More perfect than perfect Created By: Rehlow Description: Infinite time with lots of Despirals for monster bleed Crypt: (12 cards) -------------------------------------------- 12 Nakhthorheb OBF PRE SER 10 FoS Is there anyone with a "better" capacity to discipline ratio? Not that it matters in infinite turns, but two actions a turn is a nice special. Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (30 cards) 2 Abombwe 2 Animalism 2 Auspex 2 Celerity 2 Chimerstry 2 Dementation 2 Dominate 2 Fortitude 2 Necromancy 2 Obtenebration 2 Potence 2 Protean 2 Quietus 2 Thaumaturgy 2 Vicissitude Action (60 cards) 1 Clan Impersonate 59 Despiral Nak becomes a 40 cap and Clan Impersonates to Ishtarri. Then each Despiral can get 41 counters so that's 1 + 41 * 59 = 2420 bleed. Later, ~Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] Neat. I guess the hardest part will be drawing the Clan Impersonation before clogging on Despirals.

[ quoted text not captured ] The hardest part will be staying awake for the several weeks necessary to get up to 2420 bleed if you don't get ousted first. =) Very nice, though. And as a bonus, his untap definitely reduces the number of turns necessary - probably only about 25,000 turns! I think that if you avoid being ousted, you could do it in about 3 months of playing 24 hours a day. Unless your opponents are quick about their turns, in which case, at 1 minute/turn around the table, you could get it down to just over two weeks.

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh I forgot, you'll need about $400 worth of counters for your Despirals. Unless you use percentile dice.

Use a crypt of some random prince, a random Giovanni, and <infinite> Uriah Winters and a Tradition Upheld, Sargon Fragment, 2x Recruitment, and Charigger the Axe. Infinite bleed.

[ quoted text not captured ] Even easier, Al-Muntaqim with infinite Caitiff. But I think originally it was, what's the max bleed for Lucian specifically (though he can always Clan Impersonate, Praxis Seize, and then do your whole crazy thing above). The Nakh deck is kind of a digression on how to max out bleed with Despiral. But I guess jumping through all the hoops isn't necessary if you can stack your crypt to the moon and back. Good luck shuffling. Or finding that one non- Caitiff with the Recruitment. =)

[ quoted text not captured ] Library: (90 cards) [ quoted text not captured ] Later, ~Rehlow you have to consider cutting some discipline cards for more despirals , this is a maximisation problem solvable with a differential equation bleed amount: despirals * capacity capacity= 10 + number of discipline cards Maximum despirals= 89 - discipline cards im not so found of doing the entire set of calculations, but start there

Chris Berger wrote: > On Jul 16, 1:09 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Use a crypt of some random prince, a random Giovanni, and <infinite> Uriah >> Winters and a Tradition Upheld, Sargon Fragment, 2x Recruitment, and Charigger >> the Axe. >> >> Infinite bleed. > > Even easier, Al-Muntaqim with infinite Caitiff. Or Al-Muntaqim, one Caitiff, and a Hand of Conrad to recycle the Caitiff. (And a Brujah to get the Hand, of course). [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] n^2 is always greater than (n-z) * (n+z). That is, the equation is maximized when capacity = # of despirals + 1. That's not possible with discipline cards, because Nakhthorheb already gets you the highest capacity with smallest number of disciplines. Though there might be another 9 or 10 cap out there with a superior in a discipline that doesn't have skill cards, which might get you a higher potential capacity. I'm not sure and haven't really checked.

Chris Berger wrote: > n^2 is always greater than (n-z) * (n+z). That is, the equation is > maximized when capacity = # of despirals + 1. That's not possible > with discipline cards, because Nakhthorheb already gets you the > highest capacity with smallest number of disciplines. Though there > might be another 9 or 10 cap out there with a superior in a discipline > that doesn't have skill cards, which might get you a higher potential > capacity. I'm not sure and haven't really checked. You could use a Clan Impersonation and some Camarilla Vitae Slaves to make up the difference. CVS is an old standard for arbitrary capacity.

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh yeah, I forgot. I only ever used them one at a time, with infinite Aurora Van Brandes and a Soul Gem.

On Jul 16, 7:34 pm, Rehlow <newsgr...@rehlow.com> wrote: > Deck Name: More perfect than perfect > Created By: Rehlow > Description: Infinite time with lots of Despirals for monster bleed > > Crypt: (12 cards) > -------------------------------------------- > 12 Nakhthorheb OBF PRE SER 10 FoS > > Is there anyone with a "better" capacity to discipline ratio? Qadir ul-Ghani's got +1 bleed and doesn't need Clan Impersonation. 9 cap with 3 superior and 2 inferior. So could possibly be a better pick than Nakhthorheb.

[ quoted text not captured ] Qadir has a maximum capacity (without Camarilla Vitae Slaves) of 3 less than Nakhthorheb. He can have 4 more Despirals in the deck (1 less CI and 3 less skill cards). So he would have 63 * 38 + 2 = 2396 max bleed with Despirals. Less than Nakh's 2420. If Qadir uses CVS, he won't need a CI for that either, meaning he can play with 40 capacity increasers and 50 Despirals, giving him 50 * 50 + 2 = 2502 bleed. Although Nakh can use the CVS's too, making 2 CI's, 38 capacity increasers, and 50 Despirals, giving him 49 * 50 = 2450 bleed - a little lower, but twice as fast =). If we're going that route and # disciplines don't matter as much, Lucian can get 50 * 50 + 4 = 2504 bleed. Any 10-cap Lasombra could also do it by getting the CVS's first and only using 1 CI, getting 2501 plus any base bleed bonus they might have.

Don't forget Power of One at pot and Leverage!

[ quoted text not captured ] Someone upthere chalenge for the best bleed with a legal deck. I was about to point to infinite hermana hambrienta mayor, many vessels to regain pool and walk of cain in a kind of deck that can win. And Happen: estrictly talking the aproach of infinite Uriah or infinite caitiff simply can´t work because, from a mathtematician point of view, your chances to get Al muntaquim if you put him ramdomly betwen infinite caitiff is always zero and the time to find him via recruitment is infinite. (it´s been said thar God plays with dice, but would he play Vtes? in the other hand, you can always draw a hermana hambrienta from a infinite pile of HH to add one to a gazillion bleed.

[ quoted text not captured ] Infinite Hermana menors, with 89 Blood Dolls, and 1 Walk of Caine, is that the deck you are talking about? And really, since we are positing infinite time, I guess you only need 59 Blood Dolls... best - chris

> Given infinite amount of turns and no interference from other players, all > you need is one Ishtarri and one Despiral. Add counter, hunt, add > counter, > hunt, add counter,... > > Add a Perfectionist as well, and you can do away with the hunting, if you > want to reach +infinity bleed at twice the speed. :-] That doesn't work because adding a counter to Despiral costs X where X is the number of counters on it, so that would limit it to the vampire's capacity and also require a LOT more hunt actions ;)

> Or Al-Muntaqim, one Caitiff, and a Hand of Conrad to recycle the Caitiff. > (And a Brujah to get the Hand, of course). Why a Brujah? Some trick I'm missing?

[ quoted text not captured ] *does simple maximisation calculation* B = Bleed D = Despirals C = Cap M = Masters B = DxC C = 10 + M D = 89 - M ==> B = 99D - D^2 Maximum point of B occurs at D = 49.5 0.5 cards is non-sensical. @D=49 ==> M = 40, C = 50, B = 2450 @D=50 ==> M = 39, C = 49, B = 2450 Modying to be an 89 card deck. C = 10+M D = 88-M Max point of B occurs at D = 49 @D=49 ==> M = 40, C = 50, B = 2450. This is theoretically enough to oust 81.66666 methuselahs (if the excess bleed was "passed onto the next player").

+1 for leverage (play before command), if you already have the edge. "librarian" <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote in message news:h3m9dn$ns5$1...@news.eternal-september.org... > What have I missed? Better than Spiridonas? > > Lucian 4 bleed > Brutal +1, 11 Orun +11 > Command +1 > Conditioning +3 > Total: 19. > Well, I guess we could give him skill cards for skills he doesn't have to > give him more Orun. That'll get him up to what, 33? > Anything I missed? > > best - > > chris

[ quoted text not captured ] Nah. I was conflating the two POT equipments.

On Jul 17, 5:48 am, "Vincent Crisafulli" <vac...@netcarrier.com> wrote: > +1 for leverage (play before command), if you already have the edge. Why Leverage before Command? I assume you mean Command of the Beast, in which case I don't think it matters and if you're really talking about Command, then it doesn't matter + I don't get why you should play the card at all.

On Jul 16, 8:18 pm, FVicentini <felix_vicent...@gmx.net> wrote: > you have to consider cutting some discipline cards for more > despirals , this is a maximisation problem solvable with a > differential equation > bleed amount: despirals * capacity > capacity= 10 + number of discipline cards > Maximum despirals= 89 - discipline cards > > im not so found of doing the entire set of calculations, but start > there Maximum reached for 39 or 40 (same result) increasing-capacity cards, the rest being despirals. bonus bleed amount = 2450. (that's merely +27 bleed per card in the deck) If switching to a non-nakhtorheb vampire, you get 1 extra card, and the maximum is reached for 40 increasing-capacity cards: +2500 bleed.

[ quoted text not captured ] Leverage isn't a bad card, especially when you have weenie bleeders w/ o good bleed disciplines. Hack for +1, bleed again with computer hacking and add another with leverage for a bleed of 3. Not bad for 1- cap caitiffs. Brandon

On Jul 17, 4:18 pm, Stephanie Iwanciow Haas <steph.i.h...@gmail.com> wrote: > Leverage isn't a bad card, especially when you have weenie bleeders w/ > o good bleed disciplines. Hack for +1, bleed again with computer > hacking and add another with leverage for a bleed of 3. Not bad for 1- > cap caitiffs. I didn't say it was a bad card. I think it's an awesome card. I just asked for the reason to play it before Command (of the Beast), instead of after. Since Vincent explicitly said to play it after Command, I figured that he had some reason that I couldn't see (or that he thought you had to play it before Command (of the Beast), in which case he would be wrong).

>> Leverage isn't a bad card, especially when you have weenie bleeders w/ >> o good bleed disciplines. Hack for +1, bleed again with computer >> hacking and add another with leverage for a bleed of 3. Not bad for 1- >> cap caitiffs. > >I didn't say it was a bad card. I think it's an awesome card. I just >asked for the reason to play it before Command (of the Beast), instead >of after. Since Vincent explicitly said to play it after Command, I >figured that he had some reason that I couldn't see (or that he >thought you had to play it before Command (of the Beast), in which >case he would be wrong). I thought you were theoretically trying to find the maximum bleed for Lucian, so I mentioned a +bleed card that had not yet been mentioned. If you're making a more playable, realistic deck, you'd probably want better bleed modifiers than Leverage. I also meant to say play before "Conditioning". Sorry for the confusion.