Hollowboy#
First the general stuff:
I want to check that Betrayer usually only "works" with Uriah Winter.
The Betrayer options I can see are:
1) B and Uriah, and use Seeds of Corruption to nail him to your prey.
2) B and Uriah, with Uriah running freely around the table due to his
special ability.
3) B and a huge crypt, use Recruitment, and HOPE that your prey is
using vampires from the groups that you picked.
4) put B it in a normal deck as a preyer card
...I'd hate to be missing
5) the option that actually works
Since Betrayer is limited to a couple of dodgy decks, are people
willing to trade many-for-1? How many Betrayers would you give for a
single higher utility card (Such as Pulled Fangs, Freak Drive, Sniper
Rifle - the sort of card that is hardish to get, yet relatively widely
useful).
I guess estimates of relative worth belong here, but for actual trade
propositions, please email me rather than clutter the forum (PS I live
in Australia).
Now the rules questions. The re-hash is:
Hollowboy wrote:
> My question is for where there are no Seeds on Uriah, and he is free
> to stroll.
>
> Example: 3 player game. My prey has Uriah. I have an uncontrolled
> Uriah. I use Anson to play 2 Betrayers, naming my prey. I then call a
> Parity Shift and a KRC, reducing my prey to 1 pool.
>
> My prey untaps, and is now on the lowest pool, so he orders his untap
> phase to move Uriah straight away - my predator now controls him. My
> prey takes no damage from Betrayer.
>
> Question: That's correct play, yes? The ruling: "If a player takes
> control of the vampire that is the target of the betrayer, that player
> takes the pool loss." ...supports this.
Yes.
> Also, if a player has 3 Betrayers targeting them, can they guess 3
> times in a single turn (coughing up 6 pool total)? Or can they only
> guess once, for one Betrayer?
They can guess once for each Betrayer, for a total of 3 guesses.
++++++++
Similar premise, new question, new example:
5 player game, I'm player A, who is preying on B, preying on C, etc.
I untap, and give Uriah to my prey, then in my Master phase, I use him
to play 3 Betrayers (from the army waiting in Storage Annexes). As I
end my turn, and B starts her turn, relevant info is:
A 5 pool, 3 betrayers in play (Anson, Parthenon)
B 7 pool, controls Uriah, has vote lock (3 Princes, 1 Justicar)
C 5 pool
D 8 pool
E 5 pool
Player B has a cunning plan: she will use the Betrayers to lower her
pool, then call 2 Parity Shifts in one turn, to oust C and make a good
start on D.
...so B burns 3 pool to the Betrayers, and uses the "additional"
clause to burn 3 pool, to guess 'the Betrayer is Uriah Winter', for
each of the Betrayers. This drops her pool to 1. Once this is resolved
Player B *then* re-check's Uriah's text, 'I guess this guy is yours
now', and she passes Uriah on to player C.
B goes on to call Parity Shift, stating that all of C's pool will go
to A. The vote passes, C is ousted, and B gains 6 pool for that
putting B on 7 pool.
B still has less pool than D, so B calls another Parity Shift, and her
plan is realised.
Question: is the timing here legal? Or should B burn 3 pool to the
basic text of the Betrayers, giving a new total of 4 pool, and then -
before doing anything else - be forced to pass on Uriah immediately -
and thus not be able to burn 3 more pool by guessing at the Betrayer?
One argument could be: player B can play as per the example, reducing
herself to 1 pool, because it's all happening in the untap phase, and
according to the rules, B may order that phase however she pleases.
My counter-argument is:
Card text overrides general rules. Uriah's text says if <condition
exists> do <action>
...and my interpretation is that *as soon as* <condition exists> the
<action> *must* be done.
Hence, B could not use Betrayer to go lower than 4 pool.
Sub-question: in cases of multiple Betrayers, does the straight "burns
1 pool" text for each card resolve before the "additional" part of any
card can be looked at?
Specifically, for a similar example:
5 player game, I'm player A, who is preying on B, preying on C, etc.
At the start of B's turn, relevant info is:
A 5 pool, 3 betrayers in play (Anson, Parthenon)
B 7 pool, controls the triple-cursed Uriah
C 5 pool
D 8 pool
E 5 pool
...can B choose to burn 1 pool for the first Betrayer, then burn 1
"additional" pool for the first Betrayer (saying 'the Betrayer is
Uriah Winter', and thus burning the card), and *then* move on to
address the next copy of Betrayer? Or does B have to burn 3
non-"additionally" pool first, before any guessing can begin?
For player B, the pool cost is the same, the difference to the game is
whether the Uriah that she passes on is triply- or merely
double-cursed.
Betrayer [Jyhad:R, VTES:R]
Cardtype: Master
Master.
<Name a Methuselah who controls a vampire who is also in your
uncontrolled region. Put this card into play. The vampire's controller
burns 1 pool during his or her untap phase. He or she> can burn an
additional <pool> to guess the name of the <vampire>. If the guess is
correct, <this card> is burned.
Uriah Winter [Jyhad:V, VTES:V]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Caitiff
Group: 1
Capacity: 1
Discipline: for pot
<Camarilla:>
If your prey has more pool than you do at the beginning of your untap
phase, he or she takes control of Uriah [during your untap phase].