Dear all,
I am a beginner and I got the following questions after today's fight:
1. What would happen if I try to steal blood from a vampire which is
empty?
2. According to the card text Raptor:
Card Text:
Animal with 1 life.
The minion with this retainer gets +1 intercept.
As above, and when the minion with this retainer is in combat, the opposing
minion's controller's hand size is reduced by one.
Does the text imply that the card discarded is chosen by my opponent instead
of discarding it randomly? What causes me to play this card instead of raven
spy? It seems to me that it just provides 1 more chance for my opponent to
discard.
Thanks for answering my question.
Marco Wong
The Hong Kong VTES player
Marco Wong wrote:
> 1. What would happen if I try to steal blood from a vampire which is
> empty?
You steal nothing. No effect.
> 2. According to the card text Raptor:
> Card Text:
>
> Animal with 1 life.
>
> The minion with this retainer gets +1 intercept.
>
> As above, and when the minion with this retainer is in combat, the opposing
> minion's controller's hand size is reduced by one.
>
> Does the text imply that the card discarded is chosen by my opponent instead
> of discarding it randomly?
Yes.
> What causes me to play this card instead of raven spy?
> It seems to me that it just provides 1 more chance for my opponent to discard.
Yes, but if you have, say, seven Raptors on the same minion, your opponent
will have a hard time defending himself in the combat and will have fewer
good "options" for which cards to discard.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Marco Wong wrote:
> Does the text imply that the card discarded is chosen by my opponent instead
> of discarding it randomly? What causes me to play this card instead of raven
> spy? It seems to me that it just provides 1 more chance for my opponent to
> discard.
In reality, you are generally just better off with a Raven Spy. In theory,
however, there is the "Raptor Assault" deck, that revolves around getting 7
Raptors on a single vampire and then Bum's Rushing your prey, and making
them discard 7 cards just for showing up. And if you are really clever, you
then play Psyche! to start combat over, and have them do it again. And
again.
Granted, I don't think anyone has ever successfully pulled this off, but
people keep trying. Getting 7 Raptors on a single vampire takes a lot of
work.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@bigplanet.com
http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6
"she tore down Paris on the tail of Thom Paine
but the left wing's broken and the right's insane"
-Bowie
In message <BA220F4E.AC42%PD...@bigplanet.com>,
Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about:
>Marco Wong wrote:
>>> Does the text imply that the card discarded is chosen by my opponent instead
>> of discarding it randomly? What causes me to play this card instead of raven
>> spy? It seems to me that it just provides 1 more chance for my opponent to
>> discard.>
>In reality, you are generally just better off with a Raven Spy. In theory,
>however, there is the "Raptor Assault" deck, that revolves around getting 7
>Raptors on a single vampire and then Bum's Rushing your prey, and making
>them discard 7 cards just for showing up. And if you are really clever, you
>then play Psyche! to start combat over, and have them do it again. And
>again.
There is an alternative school of thought here, though. Once you have
three Raptors on a minion, you not only have a minion who makes people
discard 3 cards every combat, you also have a minion with +3 intercept.
This should solve the problem of people taking hostile actions near you,
since when you must lose 3 cards each combat, you usually have the
choice of either keeping your action/reaction cards, or your combat
cards. When the 3 Raptors are attached to Cailean with a Combat Shotgun
and Trap, this is a particularly annoying way to fly.
>Granted, I don't think anyone has ever successfully pulled this off, but
>people keep trying. Getting 7 Raptors on a single vampire takes a lot of
>work.
I don't think we'll ever see 7 raptors on a single minion in a
tournament-worthy deck (and by that i mean tier 1 OR tier 2).
--
"There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.
Derek Ray wrote:
> There is an alternative school of thought here, though. Once you have
> three Raptors on a minion, you not only have a minion who makes people
> discard 3 cards every combat, you also have a minion with +3 intercept.
> This should solve the problem of people taking hostile actions near you,
> since when you must lose 3 cards each combat, you usually have the
> choice of either keeping your action/reaction cards, or your combat
> cards. When the 3 Raptors are attached to Cailean with a Combat Shotgun
> and Trap, this is a particularly annoying way to fly.
Sure, but you'd probably do just as well with 3 Raven Spies, and save
yourself 3 blood. But yeah, having a hand size of 3 smaller is certainly
worse than having a hand size of not 3 smaller for the duration of combat.
> I don't think we'll ever see 7 raptors on a single minion in a
> tournament-worthy deck (and by that i mean tier 1 OR tier 2).
I suspect you are correct. I played in a game woith Noal once where he was
trying to set that sort of thing up, but I think I ousted him before he had,
like, 3 Raptors out.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <BA224366.AC50%PD...@bigplanet.com>,
Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about:
>Derek Ray wrote:>>> There is an alternative school of thought here, though. Once you have
>> three Raptors on a minion, you not only have a minion who makes people
>> discard 3 cards every combat, you also have a minion with +3 intercept.
>> This should solve the problem of people taking hostile actions near you,
>> since when you must lose 3 cards each combat, you usually have the
>> choice of either keeping your action/reaction cards, or your combat
>> cards. When the 3 Raptors are attached to Cailean with a Combat Shotgun
>> and Trap, this is a particularly annoying way to fly.>
>Sure, but you'd probably do just as well with 3 Raven Spies, and save
>yourself 3 blood. But yeah, having a hand size of 3 smaller is certainly
...I shoot you for 3 with the Combat Shotgun. I Taste...
(add in optional prerange Carrion Crows for large annoying minions)
>worse than having a hand size of not 3 smaller for the duration of combat.
I think most people, at any given time, have one card in hand they
either actively want to get rid of, or don't mind losing... which is why
one Raptor is worse than no Raptors. Dropping three cards out of your
hand is pretty damaging, though, especially since you can be sure you
won't draw into those same three cards after combat. You're almost sure
to be stuck dropping your actions and modifiers just to survive combat
(or dropping your combat cards and letting your minion die)... and
that'll ruin whatever you're setting up.
If you DO have three cards in hand you want to get rid of (more than
once per game), you might want to reconsider how you built the deck, and
include a Barrens and Fraggie. =D
[ quoted text not captured ]
Derek Ray wrote:
> ...I shoot you for 3 with the Combat Shotgun. I Taste...
Good stuff that.
>
> (add in optional prerange Carrion Crows for large annoying minions)
>>> worse than having a hand size of not 3 smaller for the duration of combat.>
> I think most people, at any given time, have one card in hand they
> either actively want to get rid of, or don't mind losing... which is why
> one Raptor is worse than no Raptors. Dropping three cards out of your
> hand is pretty damaging, though, especially since you can be sure you
> won't draw into those same three cards after combat. You're almost sure
> to be stuck dropping your actions and modifiers just to survive combat
> (or dropping your combat cards and letting your minion die)... and
> that'll ruin whatever you're setting up.
Yeah, ok, I can see that as pretty effective. That Cailean is nothing but
trouble, I tell you.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <BA227012.AC5F%PD...@bigplanet.com>,
Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about:
>Derek Ray wrote:>>> ...I shoot you for 3 with the Combat Shotgun. I Taste...>
>Good stuff that.
Can't beat it. Permanent permanents, in the worst way. "There will be
three ranged ordinary damage happening at long range EVERY COMBAT you
enter with this minion."
>Yeah, ok, I can see that as pretty effective. That Cailean is nothing but
>trouble, I tell you.
Admittedly, this is a lot harder to pull off without Cailean (or, as
Jeff built it a couple weekends ago, with Cock Robin, who basically gets
a free Raptor every turn). But it's still damned amusing. :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Derek Ray wrote:
> In message <BA224366.AC50%PD...@bigplanet.com>,
> Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about:
>>> Derek Ray wrote:
>>>>> There is an alternative school of thought here, though. Once you
>>> have three Raptors on a minion, you not only have a minion who
>>> makes people discard 3 cards every combat, you also have a minion
>>> with +3 intercept.
Sometime we forget the simplest things =)
> ...I shoot you for 3 with the Combat Shotgun. I Taste...
I would try a Mark 5 for cailen as 4 damage for 2 pool is better than 3 for
three pool, and the range will be long anyway : one guy from ourplaygroup
just annoys us with this =)
> I think most people, at any given time, have one card in hand they
> either actively want to get rid of, or don't mind losing... which
> is why one Raptor is worse than no Raptors. Dropping three cards
> out of your hand is pretty damaging, though, especially since you
> can be sure you won't draw into those same three cards after
> combat. You're almost sure to be stuck dropping your actions and
> modifiers just to survive combat (or dropping your combat cards and
> letting your minion die)... and that'll ruin whatever you're
> setting up.
that's especially true when you block some particular deck types :
a voter will lose his modifiers/voter cap or stealth cards
a combo deck will be also ruined by the 3 raptors.
a fighter or a stealth bleeder will not be so annoyed : they'll just ditch
for some cards useful for later combat/ combat avoidance. The malky would
ditch the cheap stealth and try to fetch labyrinths and elder
impersonations. The standard brujah will fish for the sewer lids and gates.
The long rage fighter will keep cool and fling things at thos raptors.
But anyway the murphy's laws dictates this : the moment you manage to put
the 6th raptor on your cailean, one guy will throw in a weather control from
nowhere =D
> >Granted, I don't think anyone has ever successfully pulled this off, but
> >people keep trying. Getting 7 Raptors on a single vampire takes a lot of
> >work.
>
> I don't think we'll ever see 7 raptors on a single minion in a
> tournament-worthy deck (and by that i mean tier 1 OR tier 2).
Well it seems like only a few people have seen my last two games at
the qualifier in Austria before the EC. I have played with a raptor
deck. At the first game I could only manage about 3 raptors, but in
the last two I did have 8 raptors on a single vampire, still I could
not win the table since I had only 2-3 vampires, while my opponent had
around 8-9, and even without any cards left in their library, they
simply ousted me. (But I am still working on the deck :-) )
Kumi
Ps: You need the 8th raptor against Elder library, and would need a
9th in fact because of the large number of Dreams of the Sphinx cards
played on the tournament.
Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<62apvugipaupjhqa1...@4ax.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Not true. Take a look at the Tourney winning deck archive - there's a
deck called 'Birdman of Alcatraz' using Lambach which does just that.
Quite how it won though is beyond me, but it looks quite clever.
Marty
In message <a1d15b7.02121...@posting.google.com>,
martin.c...@southbeds.gov.uk (Marty) mumbled something about:
>Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<62apvugipaupjhqa1...@4ax.com>...>>>> I don't think we'll ever see 7 raptors on a single minion in a
>> tournament-worthy deck (and by that i mean tier 1 OR tier 2).>
>Not true. Take a look at the Tourney winning deck archive - there's a
>deck called 'Birdman of Alcatraz' using Lambach which does just that.
>Quite how it won though is beyond me, but it looks quite clever.
...well, for starters, just because it won doesn't make it tier 1/2 in
my estimation. With a perfect draw and lucky seating, anything can win.
However, it raises one question:
1) did it ever achieve its stated goal of getting 7 raptors on a minion,
or did it instead win by doing the more intelligent thing and stopping
at 3-ish?
2) were its opponents a bunch of stealth bleeders, who pretty much play
directly into its hands since they can't kill the Raptors or the minion?
I'll stand by my assertion, thanks. And I'll even challenge anyone to
bring a deck whose stated intent is to get 7 raptors on one minion to a
major tournament... AND THEN PLAY IT THAT WAY.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Marco Wong wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Marco, I tried to get into contact with you to no avail. Could you contact me
instead? :)
There is currently no VEKN Prince in Hong Kong, and this would be a good
opportunity to start growing the playerbase there.
What do you think?
Carl Pilhatsch
(VEKN membership director)
Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ptprvukcvrluuc5o7...@4ax.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Think you need to cool your jets Del-boy. I have NO IDEA what it
played like, who played it or what competition it was up against. I
merely stated that a Raptor deck DID in fact win a tournament, and is
therefore a tourney worthy deck.
I saw it on Lasombras archive, thought it looked like an interesting
idea, and obviously made a mental note of it.
And as previously stated, I have NO idea how it won, but it did. And
that is all I was pointing out.
Marty